/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>707262

I can't remember even one thing I asked God by praying the rosary that I didn't obtain. I'm not going to stop praying it for nothing, bappy friend.

>>707262

Since nobody prays "to" any Saint, your experiment has already failed.

>>707269

>praying “””through””” saints

>>707262

You don't pray to a saint, why are the baptists coming out in force?

>>707270

Nobody does that either. There is only one intercessor. We ask the saints to pray for us just like you'd ask a friend to pray for you.

Curiosity, if you don't like people praying for each other or asking each other to pray for them, how do you feel about the "prayer requests" thread?

>>707262

Here is a challenge I give you: Learn that no one prays to Saints, but asks them for prayers.

>>707269

>>707271

Right, you also totally not pray to icons or statues even though you are standing in front of them and kissing them

>>707275

Yeah and I totally don't kiss the bible and say it's the only word of God and that everything else is hogwash and that Jesus Christ did come back in 1611 to write the true and original bible.

>>707275

I've never kissed a statue in my life. Sure, some folks do, but that seems a little unsanitary to me. Not my thing, really.

You, however, should probably learn the difference between "veneration" and "adoration".

Orthodox don't even pray to Mary.. at not like Catholics do. You shouldn't equate them.

It's no different than asking your pastor, "Sir, please keep my family in your prayers." Except here your pastor is a saint. And to the typical Orthodox, they don't differentiate being a Christian and those who are in heaven. For the "kingdom of God" is here/within/amidst you once you are born in the spirit. YOU ARE IN HEAVEN OR HELL, depending on your relationship to Christ. And those are in heaven are within distance as well.

>>707278

^Ugh. Forgive me my friends. Not quoting things right. Sorry about that.

>>707275

>kiss a fellow Christian friend when I meet him

>he starts beating me for idolatry

>>707278

You don't pray to saints period though.

>>707281

>You don't pray to saints period though.

I'm not either one. I'm just familiar with Orthodox. And it's not prayer so much as it is simply "talking"/fellowship. Just like every Liturgy is sharing the Liturgy in the Spirit with those in heaven. There's not a differentiation with heaven and earth.

>>707284

Okay, what are you trying to say again? I said you don't pray to saints, because that's a sin.

You venerate them, you ask for help, but it ain't you pray to them.

>>707285

>Okay, what are you trying to say again? I said you don't pray to saints, because that's a sin.

>

>You venerate them, you ask for help, but it ain't you pray to them.

I'm just trying to explain to you that you're assuming wrong. The premise itself is off. And it's really "prayer" to Orthodox so much as communion.

Luke 20:38 “Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him.”

The Church is fully alive. Not partially. And it's the world that is dead. If anything, don't share communion with them. ;)

And they're not venerating them any more than you would value the prayers of a decent family member or minister. Except these are the saints who finished the race and won the good fight.

>>707288

Are you ESL or something man? I can barely understand what you're saying and I mean that in the most positive way possible.

>>707289

>Are you ESL or something man? I can barely understand what you're saying and I mean that in the most positive way possible.

No, I'm not ESL. I messed up the first sentence and figured you would understand. I meant to say "It's not prayer - it's NOT prayer - to Orthodox so much as it is communion." There is a whole doctrine called the Communion of Saints. It's not "Prayer" in the way you would retain only for God. It's no different than asking your mom to help you. Because these Saints are ALIVE, just as your mom is. Orthodox do not live in a state where only the "real" things are on Earth. That's a sign of a lack of belief in God's Kingdom, if anything.

>>707269

>>707271

You do pray to saints. You just call it something else like dulia but most Catholics I've met even call it praying.

>>707461

>Catholics I've met even call it praying.

And most protestants I've met will agree that if I go in and slaughter a village I will still go to Heaven without any real consequence in Heaven so I mean, anecdotal evidence isn't really a thing, tigga.

>>707461

Okay Anon, find me a verse that explicitly says communicating with good spirits is wrong. Lets stop with the emotional appeals and bring up the proofs. If Catholics can find scripture justifying praying to saints post that too.

>>707463

What protestant was that? Are you talking about Steven Anderson? He's a antinomian and that is anti biblical. Catholics do call it praying but define it differently.

>>707465

>Are you talking about Steven Anderson?

I'm assuming that's what you're talking about because that's what you come across as.

>Catholics do call it praying but define it differently.

I pray to God, if I ask a Saint for help, I'm asking a Saint for help to pray to God so that God can hear my prayer.

>>707464

Ephesians 6:7

<rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man,

Catholics like to make a distinction between dulia and latria. They say we give dulia to saints and worship God. But this isn't even biblical. Ephesians even uses the Greek word dulia in this instance and that they aren't to be given to humans.

Cathodox are committing idolatry. There is not biblical difference between serve and worship.

>>707461

>You do pray to saints

<I do a thing because you claim I do a thing

I don't pray to saints and no amount of your kvetching will make it so. I ask saints to pray for me.

>all these morons thinking they have a psychic link to the departed Saints

Christ died in order that you actually could have a mediator to God the Father, that is what tore the veil and allows you and I today to have a relationship with God

He did not die so that you could have a relationship with every member of the Universal Church (yet)

At best your prayers go through Christ to the Saints who then pray for you back through Christ

But at that point why not just pray to Him yourself? Or even better have someone alive and living pray in faith then when the prayers are answered, both you and them are brought closer to God in faith while you yet live in imperfection

>>707470

The Catholics make a distinction between dulia and latria. Dulia is to serve and latria is the highest form of worship that is to only be given to God. Mary goes in the middle. She receives hyper dulia which is a higher form of serving but still not latria. If you object to this you shown ignorance of your own faith and even contradict it. But biblically there is not such distinction since Ephesians 6:7 says that we aren't supposed to give even dulia to humans.

>>707472

So, you believe the "Prayer Request" thread is heresy, too? Maybe you should leave this board.

>>707472

>2000 years of Church tradition

>agreed to as acceptable by 100s of true scriptural scholar

<but one dude uses some buzzwords on a tiny image board

How will Christ recover?

>>707469

WAY WAAAAAAAAAAY OUT OF CONTEXT

>5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ; 6 not in the way of eye-service, as men-pleasers, but as servants[a] of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 7 rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good any one does, he will receive the same again from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free. 9 Masters, do the same to them, and forbear threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.

>>707477

The idea that icons should be allowed wasn't as unified as you think. I personally think physical objects in the church are ok but what you guys do is weird man. Like, so you really go to bed at night and think to yourself, when I was burning candles to Mary and looking at her statue and asking her for help like the Romans burnt incense to ceasar I wasn't doing anything wrong and God on the day of judgement will be a okay with it?

And If you say we believed in it for 2000 years then I'm sure you have 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th century evidence to back this up that people had icons.

>>707481

Before I go further, I wanna ask you, what do you think that means? I'll even go to the Septuagint if I have to btw to prove my point.

>>707482

So if I ask for someone to pray for me they're commiting a horrible sin and should be cast into hell, Pastor Jim?

>>707485

It's not a sin but if I built a statue for them, burnt candles for them like people did to ceasar and even asked for their supernatural help like this Mary prayer: http://lordcalls.com/mother-mary-prayers/prayer-to-our-lady-for-protection-against-danger

Then yeah, we got a problem bud.

>>707488

>Praying for Mary to help us out is a bad thing now

>Pastor Jimmy thinks that any prayer that isn't God is evil and satanic

So praying for anyone is evil.

Lord I thank you today for revealing the idolatry of the Catholics and Orthodox for anyone to see for they much rather euphemize their actions then do simple Jesus only prayers. Let this be known forever that their spirits had been tested

>>707491

>Praying for Mary to help us out is a bad thing now

Thanks for admitting that you pray to Mary.

>Pastor Jimmy thinks that any prayer that isn't God is evil and satanic

Yes, to pray to anything other than God is idolatry.

>So praying for anyone is evil.

Praying 'for' someone is fine. Praying to someone is idolatry.

>>707493

>Thanks for admitting that you pray to Mary.

FOR isn't TO you whinne the pooh idiot.

>>707493

Also, that prayer I linked wasn't a prayer for Mary but to her. She is the one who has access to the treasury of merits that she bestows upon believers.

>>707495

????

Can you define prayer then?

If I'm asking a heavenly being to help me, how is that not a prayer? With that logic, nobody prays TO God, instead, they pray FOR God to help them.

>>707498

>If I'm asking a heavenly being to help me, how is that not a prayer?

Because it's not a prayer because a prayer and all worship only goes towards God.

If I ask Mary in a prayer to help me, I'm asking Mary to ask God to help me.

>>707501

It just doesn't click with people anymore. Thousands of years of deviations and heresy have accumulated to the point where ancient doctrine sounds like heresy to most people.

>>707501

You would agree, you are asking Mary to help you, correct?

>>707501

But that's not all you do is it? You also build statues, burn candles, make icons and actually do pray to her since she is the one with the access to the treasury of merits. Also, does this sound like you are asking Mary to pray to God or for her to actually save you?: http://lordcalls.com/mother-mary-prayers/prayer-to-our-lady-for-protection-against-danger

>>707504

It sounds exactly like a prayer to Mary, but to those who defend this doctrine, God has sent them a strong delusion.

Remember, the Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing.

>>707505

Here's another Catholic prayer, but it's not a prayer, but it is, but it isn't:

>O Mother of Perpetual Help, thou art the dispenser of all the goods which God grants to us miserable sinners, and for this reason, has He made thee so powerful, so rich, and so bountiful, that thou mayest help us in our misery. Thou art the advocate of the most wretched and abandoned sinners who have recourse to thee; come, then, to my help, dearest Mother, for I recommend myself to thee. In thy hands, I place my eternal salvation and to thee do I entrust my soul. Count me among thy most devoted servants; take me under thy protection, and it is enough for me; for, if thou protect me, dear Mother, I fear nothing; not from my sins, because thou wilt obtain for me the pardon of them; nor from the devils, because thou art more powerful than all hell together; not even from Jesus, my Judge Himself, because, by one prayer from thee, He will be appeased. But one thing I fear; that, in the hour of temptation, I may neglect to call on thee, and thus perish miserably. Obtain for me then the pardon of my sins, love for Jesus, final perseverance, and the grace always to have recourse to thee, O Mother of Perpetual Help.

>>707508

>Obtain for me then the pardon of my sins

Wow.

>>707503

I'm asking Mary for her to ask God to help me.

<You also build statues, burn candles, make icons

>what is art

>what is veneration

Do you have a cruxifix in your house? Or a cross? Or anything with any color at all? You should burn it according to what you believe.

>>707508

Gee that sounds like I'm asking Mary for help by asking God to do things for me.

>>707511

>what is veneration

The issue.

>Do you have a cruxifix in your house? Or a cross? Or anything with any color at all? You should burn it according to what you believe.

I don't have a crucifix neither does the church that I go to have one. And I'm not even against it but I don't personally have one.

>Gee that sounds like I'm asking Mary for help by asking God to do things for me

I'm not sure if you're being ironic or not.

>>707511

Prayer is an action. You are asking a heavenly being to perform an action (prayer) to help you.

If you are asking a heavenly being for help, then how is that not prayer, and not worship?

You know, plenty of Athena's worshipers thought she had to go through Zeus first to help them. They still called it what it was; worship.

>>707513

<The issue.

Do you have a picture of a family member in your house?

If yes, you gotta rip it up, because that's idolarty, how dare you worship a picture instead of Christ only.

>I'm not sure if you're being ironic or not.

I didn't stutter.

>>707517

You are truly giving a strawman. You can look at an image and not pray to it.

You are praying to what you believe is the spirit of a deceased person (yes, I know they are alive in Christ)

NOBODY, i repeat, NOBODY is arguing that any depiction of anything is bad.

>>707516

>then how is that not prayer

Because I'm not worshiping them, I don't think they're God and above Him. If I ask for help, I can ask God, I can ask for a Saint to ask God, I can ask for a lot of people to help me and you're trying to corner me off so I can only ask God who may not even hear my prayers (even though he will but it's a question of how prideful are you to ask God himself.)

>>707518

Again, I ask for Mary to ask God for help.

>>707520

>You can look at an image and not pray to it.

Oh wow, it's almost as if veneration isn't prayer… Really makes me think, really rally's my car.

>>707521

Also I apologize, the He and the Himself should be capitalized in the parenthesis

>>707521

Read what this guy wrote: >>707505

>>707521

How would you define worship?

Is prayer a request + worship?

>>707523

I did and he's wrong.

>>707522

I can agree with your assessment of "obtain for me" in the other prayer – obtain from the Lord. But in "ave maris stella", you're not asking Mary to ask the Lord. You're straight up asking her personally to set you free from sin and loosen the chains of the guilty.

This is co-redemptrix stuff in an officially sanctioned prayer.

>>707524

>homage paid to God, to Jesus Christ, to His saints, to the beings or even to the objects which have a special relation to God.

That's what worship is, now what I am referring to is Dulia, which isn't worship, but in a sense, asking the servent of God for help.

>>707526

Again, Mary has to go through the process of asking God, then trying to free you of the guilt and bondage of sin (but you still got to confess your sins to be totally clean of them).

>>707531

Homage paid to beings or objects with a relation to God; what is being worshiped in these scenarios?

>>707534

I'm worshiping God.

Enough bullshit. No more cucking to proddies. Yes, we PRAY to Mary and yes she has her own agency in this world as evidenced by some of the prayers. We do not worship her. We communicate with her and believe she has a degree of divine power. She is a servant of God we petition for help. We don't believe that dead are confined to prison in heaven or hell crap, nor do we believe that jewish crap of everyone's in soul paralysis until the last day. The dead are still around and capable and the good ones are willing to help us. The saints are the ones the church knows FOR CERTAIN are good guys and Mary is one of them. That's Catholicism afaik and I resent my parents for teaching me a protified version of it. I won't make their mistake and will stick to my faith without compromising it to outsiders because I don't want my kids to find out they were protestants when they were told they're Catholics and have to spend years searching to figure what they were really meant to believe.

>>707531

Why just Mary though? Can any saint free people of the bondage of sin if they ask God first?

>>707538

Sure, I was convinced that saints could possibly hear prayers by reading:

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5072.htm

(which is a great resource to argue with the next person who asks you this)

But…

>>707518

Is Mary a co-redemptrix in addition to Jesus? Because although it's not a dogma, a lot of people seem to believe it and the Catholic Church seems to endorse it with this prayer in the Breviary.

>>707545

Because that's Mary niche.

>>707549

Glad to hear you acknowledge that Jesus is not the sole Redeemer of the world.

>>707558

Jesus is the Redeemer stop twisting words

>>707558

>Jesus is the Redeemer

>Mary's niche is to free people from the bondage of sin

ITT: western theology in a nutshell.

>>707276

are you blaspheming the kjv?

>>707511

Art is fine as long as you don't pray to it or kiss it etc. You can have a painting of Jesus if you want, to remind you of him etc.

>>707645

>Acts 17:29 - Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

>sperging out because catholics use the word "prayer" as a shorthand for "asking for the intercession of a saint"

Protestantism is truly the right religion for autists.

>>707545

Because Mary is the literal mother of God, which also makes her the queen of Heaven. Now I know this might be a tough pill to swallow but there is quite the possibility that Heaven is a theocracy, meaning that some beings in there are considered more important than others.

I'm guessing that "Queen of Heaven" is a rather high position to hold, meaning that her prayers are probably quite highly regarded by her son, Jesus christ.

>>707653

That is a beautiful rosary.

I'm actually considering creating my own, but I'm afraid it won't be anywhere near as pretty.

>>707655

Mary isn't the mother of God what the heck, she's the mother of Jesus who is only one part of the Godhead. This is some Ahnsahnghong level garbage.

>>707663

She's the mother of Jesus who is fully God. Denying that Mary is the Mother of God is denying the hypostatic union by which Jesus is fully God and fully Man.

>>707664

Jesus is not the entire Godhead, unless you are denying the Father and the Spirit. It's misleading and a dumb name which is why God never uses it in the Bible. If she was important, God probably would have mentioned her more than a few times.

>>707666

God is all three, being the surrogate mother of Jesus' body does not make you "mother of God".

>>707670

>Mary is not important

Well she is pretty much the most important after the trinity.

She is definitely the most important fully human being in heaven.

>>707663

>banned for Nestorianism

based mods

>>707670

>If she was important, God probably would have mentioned her more than a few times.

Mary is the only person in the Bible who an Angel uses a royal title for when addressing her. The Angel says "Hail Mary, full of grace". You don't say "Hail" to people beneath your station, only above your station. The Angel addressed Mary as his superior.

>>707718

There are more languages than Latin and English you moron

>>707720

Latin is the only language that really matters.

>>707718

“Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. You only wash the feet of someone greater than you.”

This is how you sound.

>>707885

That's not what he's saying though.

>>707886

He says If an angel addresses Mary in a “royal” manner, she must be greater than the Angel.

It is the same logic to say that since Jesus washed the feet of his disciples, they must be Jesus’ masters.

>>707887

I guess it's a slip up then on his part then, I mean Mary is the Mother of God, so I guess it would make sense to claim her to be 'royal', if that makes sense?

>>707890

So, would you say the Bible is wrong when it says “God is no respecter of persons?”

Can you prove that Mary from the Bible that Mary is the most special human being? Even God does not respect persons?

>>707891

Even though* God

>>707891

That's not what I said though. God =/= Angel.

>>707463

> most protestants

this meme again

>>707262

We pray to saints but not in the way as we pray to God.

Thing is, "to pray" was also used as a form of asking/begging but this usage disappeared and is now solely used for asking spiritual beings.

In Italian you got something similar where you beg someone for something and say "ti prego" while the verb "pregare" is also used as "to pray".

>pray to saints

How are protestants this stupid? Like seriously how can you be THIS dumb? Or are you just dishonest? Absolutely pathetic and embarassing display.

Instead of telling your mother you love her or playing with your kids, pray to Jesus instead

>>707666

That's not what modalism is. The heresy that is described in your post would be partialism.

>>707531

>using the dulia/latria distinction again.

Read here

>>707472

>>709243

when you are in heaven you become a lowercase g god. you are deified actually. you have the beatific vision, it's not just some ordinary person.

>>709249

>when you are in heaven you become a lowercase g god. you are deified actually.

Yay

If my life started getting better after praying a different way, I wouldn't believe that God is rewarding me, I'd be afraid the Devil was trying to make me comfortable in a place I shouldn't be. Christ calls us to the desert.

I can pray the rosary in my mind if I wanted to.

>emperor tries to have control over Christianity

>fails miserably

>catholics are still pagan

winnie the pooh logic right?

>>709249

I don't believe this but even then now you have multiple beings you can pray to which is either henotheistic or polytheistic. But still, deification doesn't even occur until after we are in heaven and people only enter heaven after judgement day. For now we only go to hades which is split in two by a giant chasm.

>>709428

You go to the spirit world where you have enhanced power over this world, but you don’t get your body back until the resurrection. Assuming you still care enough you remain a spirit who influences Earth.

>>707262

Here is a challenge. Stop being a heretic.

>>707471

>He did not die so you could have a relationship with the Church

>what is the Communion of Saints

>>709446

based

>>709446

praying to Jesus is heretical now?

>>710735

If you're a protestant, yes.

>>709220

If you look at the thread where people are debating the intercession of saints it always goes something like this:

>do you pray to saints

>no we're asking saints to pray for us

>why do you pray to saints

>as I said we don't saints are in heaven and therefore it would make sense for us to ask them to pray for us do you not ask people to pray for you

>of course I ask people to pray for me who doesn't, but really though why do you pray to saints

And around and around it goes.

>>712810

Because it is obvious that people “asks for saints to pray for them” are just euphemizing that they are actually praying to the saints. Not much different to abortionists who called unborn babies “fetuses” or “clump of cells”

>>714592

This is true and the dumber Catholics think they're being persuasive which is why I don't sugarcoat it. I know I'm praying to a dead human soul and asking them for things. I know they have personal agency in this world and grant me my prayers. The important difference is proddies are allergic to the idea of communicating with ANYTHING in the spiritual world that's not God. However, Catholics have a list of good spirits that it's okay to pray to because we already know they are good. Some proddies make the unbiblical came that passed on human spirits have no agency here, but we all know they only say that because they're afraid Jim Jr might accidentally consort with demons. Much of the proddie religion is fear mixed with government propaganda like the rapture which promises you'll be saved the moment things go south.

>The Bible is against latria dulia distinction

This is the biggest lie of the century. If any, Paul acknowledges it or at the very least had a system like it where there are varying degrees of honour from that given to God and that given to men. In Corinthians, he mentions women wearing headscarves, to honour the angels present. He even speaks of Baptism on behalf of the dead which refers to Baptism in honour of dead Apoatles.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biblegateway.com/passage/%3fsearch=1%2bChronicles%2b29&version=KJV&interface=amp

20 And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the Lord your God. And all the congregation blessed the Lord God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the Lord, and the king.

>>714592

Saying I pray to Saints mean that I am asking them to pray for me so that God may protect me. Just as when I ask for others to pray for me their pray protects me. Its not a matter of euphemism but rather clarification.

>>714604

Its not sugar coating its clarifying. Jesus is the granter of all graces not the Saints. When we pray to Saints we are asking them to pray to Jesus for our intentions. That is what intercession is. Let me state again. We are not asking the Saints to grant us these graces, we are asking them to pray to God for us.

>>714621

Stop backpedaling. Saints are acting of their own agency using the Logos as a means. The problem with the Proddies’ position is they think communicating with good spirits is bad. That needs to be addressed instead of making semantic arguments.

>>714637

Its not back pedaling its restating. By saying the Saints are granting you these various blessings you obtain from prayer/sacrementals/devotionals is saying saints are little gods because God is the granter of graces. Its confirming the protestant stereotype that Catholics view Mary/the Saints as some form of little gods/goddesses, and its absolutely heretical.

Stop bumping this shitty thread

>>714643

>Its confirming the protestant stereotype that Catholics view Mary/the Saints as some form of little gods/goddesses,

Oh noes, whatever shall we do? Perhaps instead of denying it we should cite Jesus saying ye are gods and similar scripture.

>and its absolutely heretical.

Lmao, the beatific vision is canon, silly. If you don’t believe in departed human spirits having agency then perhaps you’re a proddie yourself who only thinks he’s Catholic. It’s not too late to change, I fell for the proddie memes too but I now recognize they were wrong.

>>714651

>lmao bro there's more than one God

>lmao bro what are the 10 commandments

In taking part in the Beatific Vision we don't become literal gods. We align ourselves perfectly to God's nature.

>Perhaps instead of denying it we should cite Jesus saying ye are gods and similar scripture.

Mary is not a goddess. Stop perpetuating heresy. She is the highest of Saints to be sure, but she is not a goddess.

>>714651

>Perhaps instead of denying it we should cite Jesus saying ye are gods and similar scripture.

Woah, a papist with intellectual honesty? What's next, one with self awareness?

>>714656

It’s not heresy. I think you just like getting pedantic about semantics. They aren’t the capital G God. They’re like the angels. Even proddies acknowledge the angels and their powers. We can also acknowledge human spirits and their powers too.

>>714660

Its not getting pedantic about semantics. How one says something is everything in theology.

>They aren’t the capital G God.

You are still calling them gods and saying they can grant you things (assuming blessings/prayers) rather than interceding on your behalf to God. This is a clear violation of the 1st commandment.

>They’re like the angels.

No they are not. Angels are incorporeal beings . Saint's, though they have been united with God through the Beatific Vision, are still human, and as such have a very different role than that of the Angels. The Saint prays for us in Gods heavenly kingdom that he might send down his graces upon us that we might be more holy to further glorify his name on earth. The Saint doesn't send the Graces. I have to wonder, how do you think a sacremental like the Medal of St. Benedict works? Do you think its a way of us asking St. Benedict to constantly pray for us to God, or is it us asking him for his graces and for his blessings?

>>714643

This means when Paul says in Philippians that their prayers for him were effiacious for him to fulfill his goal, it would be seen as earthly idolatry as he needs their prayers for it!

But clearly this is not the case at all. What saints are is this on a heavenly scale. The reason they are praised is why dead veterans are honoured. For their service. This is why in prayer they are highly respected because of the acknowledgement of this service that makes them worthy of praise. It have nothing to do with the fact that they are gods.

And when that anon says the Saints are gods, he is simply referring to deification which every believer will obtain.

>>714683

You’re getting confusing. Now you’re saying they don’t have agency and just pray for us? That seems to contradict the miracles they’ve granted. Even if it’s all through the Logos it’s still a power at their disposal. Spiritual agency doesn’t make someone on par with God and I don’t understand your point with calling the angels different. They’re still spiritual beings with great agency.