Redpill me on confessional Lutherans. (In the US this would be WELS or LCMS, not the obviously degenerate ELCA)

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Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 15:25:26 3eed33 No.697087

Redpill me on confessional Lutherans. (In the US this would be WELS or LCMS, not the obviously degenerate ELCA)

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 16:16:33 ff4453 No.697113

>>697097

Basically

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 17:23:52 236b90 No.697150

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>>697087

Soli Deo gloria, my friend.

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 18:55:52 e580e3 No.697184

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>>697087

>Redpill me on X

Pretty lame thread if I'm honest, OP. Just go and see what you think. However, I'll bite. It's not like this place ever has GOOD threads anyway. There's plenty of resources online as well. I'm LCMS, and the site has plenty of Q&A stuff as well as a "Christian Encyclopedia" which sort of shows opinions on various subjects. Also, there is bookofconcord.com, which houses all of the confessional writings. In general, I find the theology to be pretty deep, especially compared to other Protestant denominations. This comes from the very sacramental nature of it. This, I believe, helps us to keep from looking for an internalized God and "movements of the Spirit" that you might see in some lower church movements.

When the Liturgy is performed properly, I find it to be better than a Novus Ordo Mass, mostly because the presbyter faces ad orientalem to pray rather than ad populem. Of course, just like Roman Catholics, there is definitely an unfortunate amount of liturgical abuses. I would also say that Lutherans are more likely to have organ and perhaps choir for music than the Masses that I've been to.

To all my Roman Catholic friends who will probably flood this thread with charges of heresy and "braindead Prots" or unfortunate quotes from Luther: Remember rule 2, and remember that I profess the same creeds as you do and affirm the same Seven Councils as both Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. I even offer prayers for the dead and pray the Rosary using the pre-Tridentine Ave Maria. We are not as far apart as you like to imagine, and in fact I am a catholic. I am simply not Roman Catholic. God bless.

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 19:02:13 73cd56 No.697187

>>697184

Ok, but I still don't understand how you can be part of a church that was clearly founded by a man with some very obvious demons he had to deal with. I don't understand how anyone can read about Luther and believe he was acting in good faith, he ran away from the priesthood to marry a nun for Gods sake. How can you justify being part of a church that was founded by a clear heretic who made stuff up to justify his own personal flaws?

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 19:06:15 4a240a No.697193

Well, I mean if you are Eastern or Catholic you probably find them a bit hereticy for obvious reasons.

If you are a Protestant however…well, it depends on the overarching group. Most of the ones I've bumped into are ELCA. Women clerics/bishops. Most of the people involved seem pretty squishy. On the other hand I know some LCMS types from back in the day. Clean cut straight laced boys. No problems on that end. Scriptural faithfulness? Well, I didn't have much of a conversation of LCMS with those guys so I really couldn't say, but the ELCA types definitely get disqualifying marks in a lot of areas even with remote observation alone.

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 19:20:37 e580e3 No.697202

>>697187

Well, firstly, Luther wrote a LOT. His works actually had the same impact on German that Dante had on Italian, fun fact. His personal failings are very serious, but moral failings and theological failings are different things, in the same way that a morally bad pope (think someone like John XII) does not necessarily mean that he was a heretical pope. And if you read Luther's contributions to the Confessional writings, this is something you see. Even if you disagree with, say, the Large Catechism, I think it is undeniable that it's a pretty great theological work. Same thing with the Small Catechism, which is one of the best instruments for instructing Christian children that I've ever come across. And it's also not just Luther. There's Melanchthon, who I find tends to be a lot more cool-headed. I am a Lutheran not because of the man, but rather because I find the theology to be solid, if that makes sense.

>>697193

Yeah, ELCA is ELCgAy. They're in full communion with Episcopals as far as I know, which should tell you everything. If you don't know, well, I occasionally sub organ for an Episcopal church. There's a woman "priest" and at least one openly gay couple.

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 19:24:56 3eed33 No.697205

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>>697184

>the pre-Tridentine Ave Maria

Awesome, I had no idea that existed. Turns out "pray for us now and at the hour of our death" was added in the 1500s.

There are a couple of LCMS churches near me. One seems more traditional but is older, the other is kind of masquerading as a non-denominational church but young and growing. Will probably check them both out.

Christanon 09/05/18 (Wed) 19:25:06 73cd56 No.697206

>>697202

>I am a Lutheran not because of the man, but rather because I find the theology to be solid, if that makes sense.

Fair. Your point about Luthers failings not being an indictment on Lutheranism as a whole like a Popes failings not being an indictment on Catholicism as a whole is actually a very valid point, I concede that. I guess as far as Protestant sects go Lutheranism is one of the better ones because they still value the liturgy and sacraments, and acknowledge the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist (to some extent).