/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

My dad was touched by his priest as a little kid. A lot. It's a huge part of the reason that he's a protestant now. This whole thing is disgusting. Pope Francis needs to do something or step down.

>>693341

Satan isn’t God.

>>693331

Stop making it about kids. Make it about homosexuals.

>>693495

It is about kids though. If it was just homosexuality then there wouldn't be this much pedophilia. Boys and girls were molested. Some of the girls even got pregnant.

There are plenty of other adult priests that homosexual priests could pursue, and in fact there are many instances where they do since it's been estimated that 20% of Catholic clergy is homosexual. A lot of the clergy who abuse kids are going specifically after kids not other gay priests.

>>693497

>>693497

>It is about kids though. If it was just homosexuality then there wouldn't be this much pedophilia. Boys and girls were molested. Some of the girls even got pregnant.

m8… https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/us-bishops-report-clerical-sex-abuse-is-a-homosexual-crisis

81 percent of the victims were male, and 90 percent were post-pubescent

>>693505

Yeah, that's called pedophilia. Being sexually attracted to little kids.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20040626055311/http://www.catholicnews.com/data/abuse/abuse01.htm

>>693510

I think what anon's point was that if you take out all the gays out of the Church, the abuse rates would plummet greatly. But even then, given the Caths size as an organization, you won't be able to shield from all of the scum completely, gay or pedo.

>>693331

OP, this sounds like a weak attempt at trying to stifle discussion by deleting legitimate threads on this topic.

>>693516

I would of course advise Orthodoxy (one that holds Liturgy in your language. Church perhaps was closed due to priest being sick or some other reason), its similar to Catholicism with mysteries/sacraments and retaining apostolic succession and sacred tradition, but rejects certain things such as papal supremacy and several other things (as well as bit different views on certain subjects such as heaven and hell, more emphasis on Theosis and so on)

But thats not the point I was going to make. I just consider losing faith because of humans or human factor to be incorrect. Moreso rejecting Christ as whole because of crisis or corruption in your denomination. I mean…there are even sedevacantists, so theres that. Yes, its an oxymoron (Catholicism without pope) but remains.

>>693520

Also, this problem arises when you in general view Church as material organization with its state and so on. But Church is communion of saints/believers, both in this world and another.

>>693517

It doesn't stifle discussion. There is no reason at all to have 20 threads on the exact same topic. It's the sole reason for having a general. It falls under the auspices of what we used to call "condense your shit".

>>693520

Orthodoxy is not Roman Catholicism without the Pope. Orthodox view theology is very different ways than the Latins do. We don't just put more of an emphasis on Theosis, our whole theology revolves around it. Scholasticism is a western heresy that gave birth to numerous heresies that the Roman Catholic Church holds such as:

>Papal Supremacy

>Papal Infallibility

>Filioque

>Purgatory

>Original Sin

>Immaculate Conception of Mary

>Created Grace

>Normalization of Baptism by affusion

>Transubstantiation

>Divine Simplicity (so as to deny the divine energies)

>Dogmatism

>>693532

I wasnt intending to list everything, I said so on and so forth. I just mentioned several like Theosis and view on afterlife, though thank you for that.

But Scholasticism was, to be fair, conceived by John of Damascus in its form as it is known. Sure, St. John was wrong in several parts, but that doesnt make scholasticism automatically wrong.

>>693534

Absolutely not. Have you read Exact Exposition? It refutes the Latin heresies of original sin and divine simplicity. He repeatedly talks about God's energies and also the fall.

>>693528

>The parish that's near me is Greek Orthodox. Is that good or are the better ones? I'm a Slav, so I would really have no problem understanding liturgies that are in Ukrainian or in Russian.

Depends, some churches hold it in Old Slavonic, but as I know, Slavs can understand it well.

>Out of curiosity, is the conversion process difficult for a Catholic?

Not really, you will be there as a Catechumen for a while before receiving sacraments. AFAIK Most bishops dont even ask for rebaptism (only confirmation if it wasn't done yet).

>Yes, definitely, I see what you mean. However, it's hard to follow an institution where even the leaders of that institution don't believe in what they're supposed to teach and follow. I love Christ, but I'm tired of the hypocrisy.

Humans are sinful and degenerate, but "light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.". Dont lose your faith in God, in Christ just because of Judas.

>>693516

I would suggest stick with Catholicism until you're outright completely disappointed by it beyond measure.

There is no "true" denomination, that's just bull.

Follow Christ the best way you know how, but follow Christ above all else.

>>693537

>Have you read Exact Exposition?

Yes (to be honest, I was talking more about medical parts and astronomy as well as some points on angels influenced by pseudo-Dionysus). I am just saying that I think its wrong to throw scholasticism in to the trashbin as a whole.

>>693509

i don't understand you people

you apply to SEMINARY

to, you know, BE PRIESTS

PEOPLE WHOSE LIFE IS DEDICATED TO SUFFERING FOR THE FAITH

and you get hit on by a vocations director, suddenly, all your faith is gone? just like that?

that's all it took? really? you were trying to BE A PRIEST and THAT'S all it takes, a little experience of man's sinfulness, to make you TOTALLY GIVE UP THE FAITH?

I'm GLAD you personally didn't make to ordination. If it was SO EASY for you to lose your faith, you would have lost it from something else if it wasn't from that, and then we'd have one more TERRIBLE FAITHLESS PRIEST rotting up the ranks.

>>693542

It's not wrong. It arose out of Latin thinking due to misinterpretation of the Fathers and a commingling of pagan philosophy from such heathens as Aristotle. Theology is about the mysteries of God not philosophy as the Latin Church has made it into.

>>693556

>get called to the priesthood

>something happens I don't like

>abandon the call

>I will have a wife and kids. :)

Another vocation I suspect you'll abandon.

>>693566

oof yeah you got me there

People like you are why I hate Catholicism.

>>693567

It's not a pick and choose scenario. Either you are called to the priesthood or you are called to marriage/family. You can't just back out of one and then claim another. GOD calls you, not your own impertinent and fallible whims.

>>693546

>>693566

>>693570

You do realize that screeching with caps lock in the Internet makes you to look juvenile?

>>693567

Scratch a Christanon, find a LARPer.

>>693571

>one all-caps word and it's GOD

You need to check IDs, son.

>>693571

thought u didn't care what i think buddy

as an anon i can look juvenile all i want but it's the content of what i said that matters not the form

the fact remains that you went from wanting to serve God as a priest, the holiest of creatures, before whom even seraphim bow and scrape, to being embittered and angry and throwing out the whole faith

what happened to you is terrible, of course, and that seminary director will be sodomized with hot irons forever in the lowest hell unless he repents

but don't you jump down there with him out of misplaced pride you big dumb idiot

>>693510

>Being sexually attracted to little kids

OR just taking the opportunity of all those little boys they left you alone with…you know like being horny, having to play the asexual clergyman and then those faithful sheep just keep shoving their children in your arms. I don't think those kids played any other role than being a sex opportunity that is easy to conceal. So with that in mind…drop the Pedophilia branding and call them by their right name "homosexual boylover".

>>693575

>thought u didn't care what i think buddy

Except that I am not that guy…

>>693573

…oh…

For all those still concerned, listen to this sermon to put things at ease. Glory to Jesus Christ

>>693550

Hi, can you explain a bit more about this? What exactly is wrong with Aristotle's philosophy? I find the whole Aristotelian-Thomistic natural law quite consistent, it's also a very good argument against atheists because you can explain why things like homosexuality or abortion are wrong without directly citing the Bible etc.

Can you recommend some books/resources that are not very advanced?

>>693516

>EO church closed despite website

An outdated website?

>>693538

>Old Slavonic, but as I know, Slavs can understand it well

I am Slav but at first it wasn't easy for me to understand this language.

>>693556

>I will have a wife and kids.

I'm glad for you.

>>693570

>Either you are called to the priesthood or you are called to marriage/family.

Who knows, maybe he is called to have a family and be a priest? And please, don't be jealous. ☺

>>693996

>Aristotle's philosophy?

It is ok when one follows the Scripture guided by the Holy Spirit. It is bad when one uses it to invent new theological knowledge.

>>693546

>>693566

>>693575

>I'm GLAD you personally didn't make to ordination. If it was SO EASY for you to lose your faith

Well a priest of weak or faltering faith is surely superior to a predator of children, or one who gives a prayer to Satan through protecting them. I'm Catholic too but you lot who only want to berrate people who have become disillusioned with the Church because of the ravening wolves who stalk it's halls make me sick. Here is a genuine victim of demons in skinsuits trying to destroy the faith, and not an ounce of tenderness or understanding to be found. Faggots, murderers, pedophiles, adulterers, invaders, et al need to be handled with kid gloves, but one whose faith was shaken by the perfidious and evil false priests that the Gospel warned us about? Nothing but disdain, apparently.

>>693574

Sorry to hear what happened to you anon, and I'm grieved that we've lost a potentially good priest. I pray that you'll find your calling in life, but would encourage you to try the seminary again in the future, if you still think you could do it. This human filth which has invested the Church of our Lord won't be winning for much longer. Don't ever lose the faith.

>>693567

I think people would be rather more unhappy that you would not want to suffer those slings and arrows to save what…you've personally said was what you have discerned to be the real Christian dogmatic truth and then did not run into what the some of the remaining good officials protecting it have now recently called the Chasm of Hell (talk about not sugar-coating). It sounds little different to some ears than telling Chiang Kai-shek you won't raise arms against Mao until he "purifies China"…which naturally would only be possible by first dealing with Mao.

At the very least you denied the resistance a small but helpful tool in their arsenal and whatever position you will have filled will now likely be taken up by a pederast who will rape people and damn more souls to Hell. That grave situation aside, at the very least its one less person to raise a stink, or track "where the bodies are buried" when the midnight shredding happens. I personally would be just as upset if you had ran from confronting any kind of similar situation in the East or in a Prot mega-church. I wonder how you would deal with a Gleb Grozovsky, particularly if you found that he too was protected by a large and powerful clique.

I have faith in God that any corruption in the Lord's purview will be cleansed wherever it is found, after punishment from Heaven for shepherds straying and the hard work of the faithful to overcome the schemes of Satan. Do you?

>>693514

It's clear that there's an issue within the clergy, but what about the laypeople?

>>693556

I understand that the other anon didn't set out to be so either, but regardless, beloved, we are called to be gentle. More than that, it is a great help in facilitating conversation worth having.

>wife and kids

If you haven't, I would give great pause and consideration as to whether that's the right vocation for you, especially given what else you've posted.

>>694043

Well, about 60-70%, in the US (I don't know about overseas) harbor positive feelings for secular political positions that go against the dogma of Rome. That's a bit of a problem. In theory however, if the church became more strictly dogmatic in its push to de-corrupt, they would leave. Probably to set up a liberal version of SSPX.

At the very least however, I'm unaware of rampant organized criminality (on a secular level) with those types, and would call for justice to my knowledge. But they would be more liable to defend (or be less aggressive towards) those accused who promote worldly liberalism, than not. You can see this is comments stemming from the nuncio letter, some laity terrified of stricter Catholicism, particularly of Cardinal Burke.

That's not to say there wouldn't be other fallout. I can't imagine that the purge anyone here would like to see wouldn't put Roman institutions in Canada under extreme threat of being officially persecuted against. And I doubt it'd be the only country to do so, since everything that the Bible is against is also enshrined in most Western governments.

>>694061

I don't disagree with your description of our flock, but I question the merits of trying to make the more liberal sort leave. Part of the goal of the church is to save mankind, and that's easier to do once you've got people in the door. But that's my Protestant past talking.

Also, I must take issue with your generalization of the West, at least with your assumption of persecution. With Canada, Germany, and perhaps Britain, I suspect you're on the mark. However, I would point to examples like Westboro elsewhere. If they can continue in spite of the stance of the establishment towards them, I'm sure the bride of God will have less issue.

>>694076

I was overgeneralizing a little, but I do think it's a potentially wide-reaching problem. For sure Canada with their HRC fetish, they will most definitely go after any non-Islamic faith that is anti-homosexual. European is more complicated; at least the Western section, I'm not sure how well that can of worms would pan out. Central/Eastern Europe, less troublesome. The US would probably not do anything, at least right now, but there's increasing radicalization so who knows how that will pan out long term.

Also I wasn't so much talking about merits of "kicking them out", rather I think many of them would voluntarily leave (to avoid "right wing contamination") if the needed tightening occurred. Not something you would do, but I suspect they would turn away, rather than reassess things.

when the dust settles maybe you should pin this since its probably going to happen again.

Maybe, just maybe, consider the possibility that forced celibacy isn’t a good idea

>>693574

I don’t know if you’ll ever respond anon, but know you must keep faith. You’re probably going through a lot, and I’m sorry for what happened to you, but you must know God tests our faith by having us go through pain in life. I know you’ve probably heard this before, but hear me out. Though I can’t say I ever was touched when I was young, I can’t say I had easy. My family was getting torn apart when I was young, causing hate and distance between us. That and my father losing his job caused problems all around. As I grew older, more personal stuff happened to which lead yo my question of faith. Let me just tell you that never makes things better. I wasn’t happy and didn’t feel like living anymore. I found image boards like this and while it made me “feel” better, it really didn’t. I was basically a meme Christian at that point, and it wasn’t really helping anything. Then I met someone special, someone that revived feeling in my heart, that made me believe in faith again. I started praying and becoming a better person, as I actually felt pain not being with her, and I had yet to tell her my feelings which only made the pain greater. Prayer always helped this pain though. I eventually got closer to her, and I felt like a new man. I still felt suffering, but I wanted to continue for her and for God. I then realized that if I wanted things to be good for her and for her family, I had to continue suffering. It was not just for my love of them, but also God that let’s me continue. In my prayers I pray that the lord may give me any pain or punishment, and trial or test so that not only things can be better for them, but so I can also be closer to Christ. Let this pain not consume you, but rather you gain strength from it so that you may not only be stronger for the pains of life, but also stronger in faith as well. Don’t let pain and suffering diminish your faith, rather let it become more fervent knowing that your sacrifice means something. Always keep faith not just for those you love, but for the Lord as well. As for the denomination thing, I would prefer it you stayed Catholic, but if you must experience Orthodoxy then so be it. I was like that once, but it just didn’t feel right for me. Just don’t bring your girl into it, choosing between the two. I fear it my hurt her faith as she will be conflicted between the two.

>>693331

Not too keen on Catholic history but has any other scandals like this happened in the past, like in the last 200 years or so? How was it resolved?

How do you think this one will end or in what way it would best be resolved?

Bishop Barron's take on what to do.

>>694700

The closest thing I can think of is all the corruption going on during the 15th and 16th centuries. When the Pope was having all those "joustings of the whores."

The disgusting part is that many of the media that are protecting those pederast pedos are using the heretical National Catholic Reporter article of Michael Sean Winters to demonize Vigano as some sort of "ultra right wing". Instead of addressing and dealing with this decades old problem, they start ignoring it again, portray Francis as the winnie the pooh victim and then attack the person who has the guts to expose all of this.

Oh winnie the pooh, guys. Take a look at this one. https://twitter.com/canonlaw/status/1035555673013137409 Looks like Francis did something similar with someone else.

>>693509

Hold on. I won't try to tell you how to feel, but The Catholic Church is not a bunch of corrupt priests and bishops, it is us. We are the Church. Do not leave the fullest expression of Christianity, help lead it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpNZ77Eq6YQ

Other anon is right that Christianity is like "one big hallway" though, to use C.S. Lewis' analogy. And the big hallway has many doors.

>>694996

>I don't know what to think about the catholic church. I really want to have an intimate relationship with a mare or a cow, but the religious leaders and their adherents are forcing me to be gay instead by the threat of being punished for bestiality. Why are christians and the many branches of Christianity attempting to punish me if I don't convert to gay? I feel as if they want to make me gay just for the opportunity to shame me for it.

Wat?

>>695002

You know. This is about the "bestiality" thing.

>>693509

Hey anon, please don't leave Christ. I go to a non-denominational church in my area and they're amazing and absolutely led by the Spirit. Catholicism is NOT the single true denomination (made abundantly clear by this whole situation). There are plenty of Godly Protestant and Orthodox teachers. Please keep searching!