/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>689213

>Why didn't Satan's sin spread throughout all angels

It did there was a literal war in heaven between the faithful and unfaithful angels.

>and make them mortal and degenerate and ruin their world

Because humans and angels are not the same also Adam and Eve became mortal because they ate from the Tree of Knowledge. Also it did God literally had to banish all the Rebels into hell.

>Eve's sin spread to us and fractured our world?

Eve sin spread because she is our progenitor Angels do not have children and so their sin stayed with them.

>Are angels mortal and is their heaven full of suffering?

Heaven is not full of suffering because all the Angels who turned against God were sent to Hell which is full of suffering.

Angels don't reproduce anon. Upvote first post.

>>689365

Divine nature blocks sin, like a vaccine.

>>689213

>Why didn't Satan's sin spread throughout all angels, like Eve's sin spread to us and fractured our world?

Because they are made separate and dont have genetical link to each other as we have

>and make them mortal

Humans aren't Mortal either. Physical death for humans is separation of Body and Spirit, but our immortal soul continues to exist and will be reunited with our bodies on the day of resurrection, because of Jesus. So by both definitions we are not mortal: Our souls are immortal and we have resurrection immorality (thank you, Jesus). Since Angels are spiritual beings, there is nothing they can separate from, despite that sometimes assume material form.

>and degenerate

they are

>ruin their world

Because there is no "their world". Angels are created as servants of God so they are with them or against them. Humans however were made as masters of creation, so our fall affected our domain. Angels and humans have different positions, different purposes and different roles.>Why was Jesus born without sin?

>>689365

>Why was Jesus born without sin?

Sin is defined as rebellion and rejection of God, it doesnt exist on its own, but is mere deficiency of Good. Sinful God is a logical impossibility and an oxymoron.

We inherit the original sin (not original guilt) due to receiving our human nature from our parents, who get it from their parents, etc., up to Adam and Eve. Angels don't inherit their nature from other angels, they were all created together.

Because Satan is not father of angels. Angels do not reproduce. Each and all of them were created separately.

>>689458

Where does the bible say this?

>>689633

bump this

>>689633

Where in the Bible does it say that it have to be in the bible?

Psalm 103:4 Who makest thy angels spirits

Spirts do not reprouduce.

>>689814

>spirits do not reproduce

says who? you?

>>689815

Give even one Biblical passage that suggests that they reproduce. Go ahead, we'll wait.

>>689816

so you can't justify your claim. just checking.

>>689819

You know we have IDs, right?

>>689821

you took his side implying they don't reproduce, when you said "we'll wait" here >>689816

I never made any claims, I asked him/you/they to justify the idea spirits can't reproduce.

Looks like you "guys" can't.

Gottcha.

>>689633

>>689813

>>689815

>>689819

>>689822

Only single instance which may or may not imply that angels can reproduce is the retarded nephilim meme and even there its about reproduction with humans.

On the other hand, we have passages like

>Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire.

and

>For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

>>689824

>in the ressurection

irrelevant

>they can't reproduce, but they can reproduce with humans

this isn't helping you.

>>689822

1) Angels, being spirits, are not composed of matter and form. For something to reproduce, it must be composed of matter and form; this is an observable fact.

2) God's angels, being not corrupted by original sin, cannot commit sinful acts, hence their presence in God's throne room.

Angels do NOT marry, nor are they given in marriage.

>Mark 12:24-25 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."

Since sexual acts outside of marriage are sinful, angels clearly do not have sexual activity, which is necessary for reproduction. From this, it can be inferred that angels do not reproduce.

3) Men are called Sons of Men, as they are descended from other men all the way back to Adam. Not once in the entire Bible, including the Apocrypha, are angels called Sons of Angels. They are called Sons of God, God being the figurative father of angels (by creating the Ex Nihilo).

5) Not once in the entire Bible are angels described with feminine nouns, pronouns, or verbs, but in every single instance of an angel making an appearance, they have the appearance of men. For angels to reproduce, they would need female angels, for which there is no evidence.

From all of the above, it can be inferred that angels are wholly masculine spirits, without matter or form, who do not create more angels, but have existed from near the beginning of creation in a fixed number, for it is for Man that the universe was created, so that Man can give it back to God. The angels exist to observe, and at necessary times intervene to bring about God's will.

>>689828

angels can take the form of material beings, and can have sexual function. Like the angels Lot protected.

>>689830

Ah, but did they truly have sexual function? The men of Sodom desired them, but gat does not mean that the good angels could commit sexual acts, and again: sex outside of marriage is sinful, and (good) angels cannot sin, therefore they do not have children. See all of my previous points.

>>689815

Christ.

For when they shall rise again from the dead, they shall neither marry, nor be married, but are as the angels in heaven.

>>689826

>>in the ressurection

>irrelevant

Do you even know how to read? It says that in resurrection we wont be married like angels.

>>689867

How many times do you have to be told that you are not welcome here? F-u-c-k off and stop evading your bans retarded heretic

>>689375

>Because they are made separate and dont have genetical link to each other as we have

Loads of the other responses here are going on about angels and them reproducing or not. Fine I'm not interested in that but have a question re the nature of the passing down of the original sin/our inclination to sin off the back of the above quoted post:

Why does it have to be a genetical link? Or even a more vague reproductive link? Surely it makes more sense to understand it on the level of it being a spiritual link of human nature, irrelevant to genetics/the material process/nature reproduction? Even if the spiritual link is referenced surely the genetic/specifically reproductive should be done away with regardless? On the basis an action or intention of a person (i.e. eating of the fruit of the tree) doens't corrupt their genes or those of their gametes in any other scenario, does it? Or is it somewhere blatant in scripture (or at least inferred)? If so that is confusing to me

>>689884

Not him, but giving out perma bans for ridiculous reasons like asking questions about Satan isn't going to keep people away, if anything it will motivate them to troll the site more. Most of the bullshit bans posted are absolutely stupid, and you seriously expect people to take it seriously? You can see it in the one sided meta thread (at least the reddit style undeleted ones).

>>694634

No, he was notorious heretic.

>>689828

>not being a universal hylomorphist

>make them mortal

Only the body is mortal. Angels don't have a body, as such they cannot lose it through death.

>spread throughout all angels

Angels don't reproduce. As such, no angel could inherit the sin of their ancestors, because they didn't have any angelic ancestors.

>inb4 nephilim

They were likely produced in the same way that succubi and incubi produce a cambion, with the physical characteristics of the sperm modified so as to create the exceedingly large nephilim.

>>694650

The body and soul are mortal. Only God has inherent immortality. He can grant our bodies and souls immortality as a gift. Angels are created things, by nature mortal unless gift immortality.

>>694650

Sin transfers to the entire realm/universe they inhabit. The earth doesn't reproduce but its nature is tainted by sin hence natural disasters and why Paul said all of creation groans in anticipation for regeneration…or something to that effect.

The angelic realm should be tainted by sin, war , decay, just like ours…. Hence they need an angelic savior of some sort.

Sin would affect them as they are, reproduction is irrelevant.

>>694704

This is, to be honest, a nonconcern. God granted us immortality (humans and angels) and since He is unchanging, he won't revoke it. Though of course, we always remover that we are dependent on Him.

>>694705

There is no angelic realm. Heaven of heavens belongs to God, and earth (material universe) was given to men, as Psalm states.

>>694740

*Remember

>>694650

>succubi and incubi produce a cambion

Can I get a Biblical source on that? Sounds like medieval folklore to me.

Threads like this one always bring out the /fringe/ lurkers.

>>694745

Except that no and this Ann*hilationist garbage was invented by protestards in XIX cc.

test

That war is still being fought. We just live in the occupied territories

>>694740

War in heaven. Satan sinned, ergo angels need salvation. Sin can spread without "biological reproduction" it's acquired through choices and being in proximity to sinners increases your chances of sinning and being affected by sin.

God can change our properties and gifts, without himself being changed.

>>694763

Point is about God "not changing his mind". In Orthodoxy for example when we say something related to God "changes" it means the attitude and perception of the observer changes, not God.

>>694765

There's no promise of immortality, except for the saved. Immortality is not inherent to man, it's given, just like families are given, and families are taken away.

>>694768

Is there a mass invasion of heretics today?

>>694771

Going by all the gnosticposting, yes.

>>694771

What is gnostic about saying that only God has inherent immortality, and that for man it's something secondary that is given or lost?

>>694824

I mean there's two new Gnostic posts in the catalog.

>>694824

>>694768

>what is gnostic about being a heretic?

gee, I dont know.

>>694837

so you think man is eternal by nature? now that's gnostic.

>>694841

Basically read John Damascene's "An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith", wisdom of Solomon and pooh off.

Also yes, since God made our nature so.

You poohing ann*hilationists disgust me with no boundries

>>694841

>For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity. (wisdom 2:23)

>>689213

because Satan isnt the father of angels, whilst Adam is the father of Men.