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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: fd6855981207c7d⋯.jpg (583.68 KB, 897x507, 23:13, Eve.jpg)

f86840  No.688762

Who was in the wrong here?

5c9d53  No.688765

No one, it was God's plan all along.


17eab4  No.688767

>>688765

Heretic! Samefag!

Clearly, Eve, the snake, and Adam. That's why they all got punished.


e15e2e  No.688769

>>688767

Was the snake punished?


5c9d53  No.688770

>>688767

>Heretic

So God's plan of redemption was made as He went, implying He isn't omniscient?

>>688769

Had to crawl on its belly and eat dust. Also Christ squishes its head


17eab4  No.688771

>>688770

>So God's plan of redemption was made as He went,

Didn't say that your heresy was:

>No one

Just because it was within the bounds of God's plan didn't mean they had to choose to sin. God had a plan that worked regardless of what they choose, but the choice was still their's.


45341f  No.688773

>>688771

>God had a plan that worked regardless of what they chose

So it was a Plan B? That'd imply there was uncertainty in a being who knows all

>but the choice was still theirs

Is the choice really theirs if He knew the outcome?


17eab4  No.688775

>>688773

>That'd imply there was uncertainty in a being who knows all

Omniscient is a broad term. Some people think it means knowing what will be, others think it means knowing all things that could be.

>Is the choice really theirs if He knew the outcome?

Yes. You're sounding suspiciously materialist for a Christian. If the soul/will isn't bound by physics, this is an easy answer to accept.


45341f  No.688777

>>688775

>Omniscient is a broad term

All knowing is all knowing, if He knows all possibilities, He knows which shall come to pass.

>this is an easy answer to accept

So He doesn't know where you're going afterwards? Not exactly feeling the "omni"


17eab4  No.688778

>>688777

>All knowing is all knowing, if He knows all possibilities, He knows which shall come to pass.

Not if the will/soul isn't bound by physical laws which are calculable. You've got some big assumptions in there.

>So He doesn't know where you're going afterwards? Not exactly feeling the "omni"

Again, depends on how you define "all"

>So He doesn't know where you're going afterwards? Not exactly feeling the "omni"

Maybe he does. Doesn't change personal responsibility for choice if your will/soul is ruled by physics that God made. If you actually have free choice, independent of the universe, then it's irrelevant that God knows your choice before you conceive of it- as long as when it is made it is made independently.

You might ask why God doesn't save people from themselves- because then their would be no free will.


09de39  No.688779

>>688762

>Who was in the wrong here?

Can it not be all parties involved?


17eab4  No.688780

>>688779

No God. Because He is God. Literally, that's how it works. If you presume to judge God, go read Job, there's a book about it.


09de39  No.688782

>>688780

God didn't explicitly interfere with the decision, therefore I don't consider Him involved any more than He normally is in any other human decision.


c07912  No.688783

>>688765

>Genesis 1:31 And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning— the sixth day.


45341f  No.688788

>>688778

>Not if the will/soul isn't bound by physical laws which are calculable

Neither is God, what's your point? That He can only know certain things? Doesn't sound omniscient

>Again, depends on how you define "all"

Limitless knowledge.

>free will

Is that biblical or man-made?

>>688782

He interfered by making the situation in the first place.

>>688783

So God didn't know his creation would rebel, despite having knowledge to the contrary?


bca243  No.688789

>>688775

>>688773

Predestination and free-will are not at odds. God knows what you will choose. Indeed, because you will do it, it must be done. There's only one possible path. What exists at the intersection of predestination and free-will is destiny.

If I'm wrong, prove it.


45341f  No.688790

>>688789

So God knew we'd fail? He knew that His wprld would degenerate into sin and death, and created things with that in mind. Sounds like God set us up, and that doesn't sound very benevolent.


c07912  No.688801

>>688788

>So God didn't know his creation would rebel, despite having knowledge to the contrary?

He knew it would, but he didn't create it to. Just like how Satan wasn't made to enslave humanity.


505706  No.688802

>>688801

>He knew it would, but he didn't create it to

So He set us up


c07912  No.688824

File: e4a4499b868c07c⋯.jpg (88.46 KB, 620x960, 31:48, dasda.jpg)

>>688802

free will.


1a93b9  No.688831

>>688790

Jesus was weeping about all this, such things must come, but you'll find out a bit more when you give up the ghost


17eab4  No.688834

>>688790

>So God knew we'd fail?

Yes but He didn't force us to

>He knew that His wprld would degenerate into sin and death, and created things with that in mind.

He offers salvation and eternal life; that's what we were created for. You can choose sin and death if you prefer it.

>Sounds like God set us up, and that doesn't sound very benevolent.

See the 2nd answer


96c8b7  No.688849

>>688824

<construct made after the fact

>>688831

<He set us up but it's ok just ignore it

>>688834

<Yes but He didn't force us to

That's like saying a kid who touched an unattended stove's flame was in the wrong, despite their parents leaving it on for no other reason than to watch them get hurt. That's a setup. If that's your God, I shudder to think of your Satan.

>inb4 muh lesson learned

Yeah, I'm sure it'd be wise to throw the child out of the house and tell them they can't come in until they not only apologize, but swear their undying loyalty and allegiance to their parents until death.

<He offers salvation and eternal life; that's what we were created for

Then why not start over instead of making this convoluted system where has to sacrifice Himself to Himself?

<You can choose sin and death if you prefer it.

Guess that goes for babies who died before and after birth as well? That they chose, without a hint of self-awareness, to sin and be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone on judgement day?


bd6b4f  No.688895

File: 855d8c7555a3306⋯.jpg (431.41 KB, 1041x1600, 1041:1600, freewillandstuff.jpg)

>>688773

>Is the choice really theirs if He knew the outcome?

Every time when some mentions free will I know for certain that there will be at least one retard who would say exact same words as you. Does my foreknowledge caused your retardation?


17eab4  No.688931

>>688849

>That's like saying a kid who touched an unattended stove's flame was in the wrong, despite their parents leaving it on for no other reason than to watch them get hurt. That's a setup. If that's your God, I shudder to think of your Satan.

If you tell your kid not to touch the flaming stove, and he does, he is in the winnie the pooh wrong. Now, if the kid is irreparably burnt, you might also be a negligent parent… but God offers to heal those who repent so, no harm remains if you trust Him and if you don't… well, it's your own fault.

>Then why not start over instead of making this convoluted system where has to sacrifice Himself to Himself?

Have you read Job? Your whiny, judgmental attitude to a being leagues beyond your comprehension is like a toddler screaming because he isn't allowed to eat the whole cake without feeling sick. FFS man your answer is to obliterate everyone and start over? I mean, He kinda went with that with the flood (though, obviously, for different and specific reasons- in my opinion, to get rid of the Nephelim).

>Guess that goes for babies who died before and after birth as well? That they chose, without a hint of self-awareness, to sin and be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone on judgement day?

No one says that. The worst idea is held by those that believe they're in limbo, and that's not hell. I personally believe they have the opportunity to accept Christ, as does everyone from all time, how that functions- I have no idea, but certainly God is beyond time, and in God all things are possible.


7deaea  No.688955

When God confronted Adam,

Adam blamed Eve.

When God confronted Eve,

Eve blamed the Serpent.

When God confronted the Serpent,

the Serpent winked.


c07912  No.689046

>>688849

>construct made after the fact

You missed the point of >>688783 God didn't create sin. What God made was good, it was we who choose to disobey.




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