/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

If the Apostolics are not the true faith, then denomination probably does not matter, but i am inclined to believe that one of the Apostolics is the true church because that is what makes sense to me.

yes

God will forgive you for picking the wrong denomination. But working unrepentant evil and being mired in the carnal will not be good for your soul. He'll is for those who bear no fruit, they will be cut off from the Vine. Seek and pray to God and all things will be revealed. He has given you the tools, they are within you.

I'm sick of all the denoms. I find them arrogant deep down wanting me to worship them and their own self proclaimed secret holy knowledge not the true God who is limitless and beyond our comprehension. I believe everyone is wrong and all we can do is beg God's mercy. Showing up to the wrong church or performing the wrong ceremony the wrong way is the most minor of our many many sins.

Correct praxis must come with correct doctrine. Heresy is not just bickering between groups that claim to be the more correct, heresy is a poison for the soul that prevents salvation. You do not truly worship God if you do not believe what He has actually revealed. You worship a distorded image of God, that is, an idol, and so you reject His grace and His love, and prefer the doctrine of men.

Yes, in the same way going to the correct doctor for our illnesses matter.

Heresies might get you some healing but the fullness of salvation can only be found in Orthodoxy.

>>683746

No one really knows for sure that is what faith is. The Apostolics believe faith alone can save you BUT it is a lot harder and much easier to fall down a path that leads you away.

"Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat."

The Christ who said this knew that the Church He founded would split, yet said this anyway. I do not believe Christ would say this if He thought non-apostolics were His.

>>683759

"11And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. 12And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. 13Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen."

>>683765

No, heresies give you no healing. Going to a heretical sect for salvation is like going to McDonald's to avoid getting your arteries clogged.

Outside of Orthodoxy there exists no healing, no salvation.

>>683834

Going outside of Orthodoxy gives you the schism, very bad!

>>683834

>Outside of Orthodoxy there exists no healing, no salvation.

Salvation is by Grace not by ecclesia.

>>683746

Ignorance is not a blessing, it's a curse. And invincible ignorance happens once in a billion.

Invincible ignorance does not mean that you can be saved regardless of faith. It DEMANDS that you have faith in Messaih. Since time of Adam, to be saved it is required that man belive in Jesus Christ, at least in vage manner of God's providence.

>>683864

And Grace through Church, not individual.

>>683864

And grace comes from Christ. And is Christ present among falsehood, lies, and blasphemy?

>>683916

>And Grace through Church, not individual.

Grace is from God into man, there's no third or fourth mediation. He can turn anyone to him, at any time, in any place, no matter what church exists in their vicinity.

>>683954

Christ dined with sinners, so yes. Christ can come to anyone, regardless of their geography or church affiliation.

>>684256

True and then he usually tells them BEGOME CATHODOX! Really activates those almonds.

>>684272

Look, I'm orthodox, but I don't go around saying "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus"

God is bigger than that.

>>684276

Then the Church is a pious fraud, and 1,500 years worth of Christians are doomed to hell, just as the protestants reason.

>>684277

There are three "steps" to salvation.

1) Universal salvation from death (Full expression of Mercy) - this is what Jesus did for all humanity with His incarnation and resurrection. By uniting human and divine nature in His person, we all will be resurrected in the last day;

2) Final Spiritual Salvation (Full expression of Justice) - this is the salvation most people talk about, the one in which the sheep will be separated from the goats. Christ is very clear that the only criteria for that is how much we have loved our neighbor, and Himself above everything else. In sum, how much we have loved, thus becoming images of love ourselves; The "sheep" will be Church Triumphant. Those who are outside but loved will be put inside. Those who are inside but hardened their hearts will be vomited out;

3) Present Salvation (Temple of the Holy Spirit in Time, Provision of Mercy, Prefiguration of Justice) - this is the Orthodox Church, an eucharistized community that not only is guided by the Holy Spirit, but is inhabitted by Him, from which the Grace of Salvation shines forth sustaining the Universe. Because it is a material thing it is delimited, visible community in which participation implies spiritual (right faith), mental (right doctrine) and bodily (right worship, throughout geography and history) aspects and in which individuals often fail in one or even all of those aspects. In Time, there is a mix of people in the Orthodox Church. Some do not let the energy of Salvation act on them. Others give up themselves so fully, salvation shines from them even visibly - the Uncreated Light.

>>684287

>1) Universal salvation from death (Full expression of Mercy) - this is what Jesus did for all humanity with His incarnation and resurrection. By uniting human and divine nature in His person, we all will be resurrected in the last day;

That's heresy

>>684322

why do you think so?

OP here in case you can't read my ID. I feel like none here truly understands my question. I'm merely questioning the point of God reavealing his truth to the world. Everyone was gifted by a conscience and living by our conscience spares us from the punishment that comes in the afterlife. Therefore, if we already have our conscience and the natural will to follow it, then what's with the need of knowing about God?

>>683916

>Ignorance

What I meant to say is unknowing.

>>683746

Yeah, it does. The Apostles warned against heresy. The Apostles warned us to follow traditions they left. They did not say well as long as you agree on one thing you're all Christians.

>Everyone was gifted by a conscience and living by our conscience spares us from the punishment that comes in the afterlife.

No. You, we, were given a specific set of commandments. In this contesxt, following those commandments spares you. In this context, you can't say 'I will disregard God and live as a noble fedora and I'll surely never go to hell'. So your question actually doesn't apply to our situation anymore. We can go all philosophical about why God this and that but in practice it will to nothing for you.

>then what's with the need of knowing about God?

In order to know who is actually God so you don't go worship trees and demons.

>>684256

>Grace is from God into man, there's no third or fourth mediation. He can turn anyone to him, at any time, in any place, no matter what church exists in their vicinity.

And he does it by the Church, that is Body of Christ. Outside of this Body there is no Salvation.

>>684341

>What I meant to say is unknowing.

Same thing. And this thing:

>veryone was gifted by a conscience and living by our conscience spares us from the punishment that comes in the afterlife.

Is bullshit. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Living "good life" availeth nothing if you don't answer call of Grace unto Repentance and Faith

>>684322

>Christ did not united human nature to Divine nature

>There will be not universal resurrection

Either way, gtfo you gnostic

How many denominations are there mentioned in the New Testament?

Can the pagans work a saving faith?

>>683830

>"11And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. 12And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. 13Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen."

What are you trying to say? I'm going to hell? I get that allot around here.

>>684358

>Same thing.

Not the same thing.

>Is bullshit

Romans 1.

>>684647

>Not the same thing.

Same thing. Not knowing faith is ignorance.

>Romans 1.

Hebrews 11:6

Paul do not contradict himself. Invincible ignorance can get you saved ONLY if you have faith.

There are millions of people who have put their prayers and faith into the churches of many different denominations for centuries now. I think that there's a good chance that there is spiritual power or energy in that. For this reason I can't really convince myself that people in currents and movements other than the ones I would favor the most have been completely unable to attain spiritual fulfillment.

Just for my own personal adherence I would prefer the denomination which I can determine through the best of my logic's abilities to be the most authentic.