/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

it's heresy

>>682413

>with all the magic bullshit omitted

This thinking being behind it is what makes it blasphemous and the Gospels aren’t “the Bible” anyways. You shouldn’t tamper with a holy book in which you don’t believe.

>it's basically christianity, but with all the magic bullshit omitted

It most certainly is not, it is barely a step above atheism. Deists are not Christian in any way, shape, or form. I say this even as I have a friend who considers himself a member of that heresy. Because of this I was subjected to reading one of the worst books it has even been my displeasure to hold in my hands; Deism, by Bob Johnson. That was the most poorly written piece of apologetics/ attacks on Christianity that I have ever witnessed and I'm still upset about having endured reading it almost a year later. His assertions, like the assertions of Deism, are childish, nonsensical, and come from the weakest understanding of Christianity and literature imaginable.

>masons

Not even once

It's pointless except as a slippery slope to atheism. Reject God and most of Jesus' teachings lose any foundation and will be substituted for feely-goody nonsense.

Utter trash. I honestly don't get the fascination atheists have with deracinating anything mystical from holy texts and presenting "humanist" fairy tales instead, so it just becomes some dumb "dude just don't be an asshole to other people lmao".

Same with AC Grayling's "The Good Book".

It reminds me of Chesterton's remark about Ernst Renan and other authors who like to "sanitise" Jesus and St Joan of Arc from all that embarrasing divinity stuff but presenting "what really happened", saying something like

>They discredit supernatural stories that have some foundation, simply by telling natural stories that have no foundation.

>>682531

> I honestly don't get the fascination atheists have with deracinating anything mystical from holy texts and presenting "humanist" fairy tales instead, so it just becomes some dumb "dude just don't be an asshole to other people lmao".

Because it absolves them of any responsibility to better themselves as human beings because it allows them to define "good person" as simply someone who is inoffensive and doesn't actively annoy other people, understandably an attractive thought for your average anti-social neckbeard since they have around 3 face to face conversations a year with people who aren't fast food cashiers.

It's removing all the nasty parts of Christianity that tell them they're NOT perfect the way they are, they need to look at themselves and attempt to better themselves in a process of striving towards the transcendent perfect truth of our reality which is God. No, that is too much trouble. Why not just say Jesus message was "Everyone is perfect as they are, health at all sizes, gays are great! As long as you're a meek, inoffensive, boring person whose most interesting feature is having a level 100 World of Warcraft character then you're doing great, don't change!". That way everyone is happy right?

Deism is just shorthand for "atheist materialism for people who feel uncomfortable outright denying God", as the OP's snipe at "magic bullshit" makes plain. If you were to take deism to its logical conclusion (no one does this), you would literally just end up with gn*sticism. In any event, it is utterly anti-Christian.

>magical bullshit

what magical bullshit?

>>682533

I suppose, but I still don't get it. For lack of a better term, it's just such a bad faith way to live.

It's like tearing the ending off of a book because you didn't like it, and pretending the rest of the book is great, even though you still know what the result is.

>>682535

Not exactly. I don't agree with Deists but according to wiki:

>Deism (/ˈdiːɪzəm/ DEE-iz-əm [1][2] or /ˈdeɪ.ɪzəm/ DAY-iz-əm; derived from Latin "deus" meaning "god") is a philosophical belief that posits that God exists and is ultimately responsible for the creation of the universe, but does not interfere directly with the created world. Equivalently, Deism can also be defined as the view which posits God's existence as the cause of all things, and admits its perfection (and usually the existence of natural law and Providence) but rejects divine revelation or direct intervention of God in the universe by miracles. It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge and asserts that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator or absolute principle of the universe.

So, they believe God is the source of morality, and they believe you can discover/find God by observing the creation. This is good. They don't believe in miracles/God's interference, that's bad.

They are materialists, but they aren't nihilists. They admit the goodness of God, they just limit his power- in some ways, it's a childish answer to the problem of evil.

> magic bullshit

The very basis of Christianity is the supernatural. If you’re going to be a Christian, you’re going to need to accept that existence is not limited to the natural world. Deism is foolish. God did not simply set everything in motion and then decide to do nothing for the rest of eternity.

It's retarded

>there is a God who created the universe and has total dominion

>hurr durr but He can't apply His presumed sovereignty over it

>it's basically christianity, but with all the magic bullshit omitted

It's basically christianity but with no resurrection and thus meaningless.

If Christ wasn't who he said he was then there is no reason to follow christian ethics over any pagan philosophy.

You can't eliminate resurrection, miracles and "all the magic bullshit" and keep Christianity.

>magic bullshit

You cannot be a Christian and not believe in the "magic bullshit". The entire premise is believing in the miracles of God and the Resurrection of his son and the promise of everlasting life that comes with the belief.

Well since God did incarnate and God is trinitarian then anyone who rejects this revelation is an atheist and follows their own idol.

>>682809

We follow the teachings of Christ because He is God and therefore always right.

If the Masonic faggot who wrote that book things Jesus isn't who He says He is then He would be just another philosopher meaning that Plato could be right and He wasn't. It would be a matter of choosing of philosophy school.

But since Christ is God He is correct and His teachings are true above any other man.

>>682413

>Have a country founded by masonic cryptoatheists

>Wonder why Satan has taken it over

hmmm

>>682533

this

I like it. Seems legit.

>>683485

So Unitarian Universalist then?

>>683491

So you think anyone who doesn't have an explicit belief in the atonement is going to hell for sure? Children/babies and people who never heard of the crucifixion included?

>>682587

Not every deist believes in the same thing. It’s a blanket term. Some deists do believe that God intervenes, some don’t. They’re much better than atheists and agnostics.

>>682413

> all the magic bullshit omitted

WEW

>And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

>>683485

Submit to Rome heretic

>>683541

Unbaptised babies aren't going to heaven since they can't desire to know God yet therefore baptism of desire doesn't even apply. They go to the upper parts of hell were they live in an eternal natural happiness.

>>683562

>dead babies go to different parts of hell, where they will be happy

What are you LARPing about? Who told you this nonsense

>>683568

Correct me if I'm wrong but here do you think the limbo of infants is?

>>683485

Leaving out that miracles arguably count as a form of revelation, let's consider the implications of the deist God. This God created the universe and humankind, and knows everything about us. He therefore knows that the human heart longs to know God more than anything, and that longing is by His design. He knows that our knowledge of what is right and wrong is inferior to His, so that without His guidance we are lost. And knowing all this, the God of deism still refuses to condescend to reveal Himself to us at all. Not one prophet, not one stone tablet, and certainly not an Incarnation of Himself. This is why deism deserves the comparison to gn*sticism: because the "deist God" is a more incompetent (if not outright malign) divinity than any spooky snake monster demiurge that the Greeks ever came up with.

>>683561

>Submit to Rome heretic

>Abrogate centuries of tradition and contradict the bible on capital punishment

They change too much, the actual truth is timeless.

>>683573

> This God created the universe and humankind, and knows everything about us.

Agreed.

>He therefore knows that the human heart longs to know God more than anything, and that longing is by His design.

Some seek, most don't. Even your scripture says: [there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away…]

>He knows that our knowledge of what is right and wrong is inferior to His, so that without His guidance we are lost. And knowing all this, the God of deism still refuses to condescend to reveal Himself to us at all. Not one prophet, not one stone tablet, and certainly not an Incarnation of Himself.

God changes hearts and instructs us internally, he has all of nature to use as his revelation for us, not simply explicit written statements, which can be twisted and corrupted and interpreted in dozens of ways.

>This is why deism deserves the comparison to gn*sticism: because the "deist God" is a more incompetent (if not outright malign) divinity than any spooky snake monster demiurge that the Greeks ever came up with.

Not sure how this follows at all. Are you saying the only way God can change hearts and instruct mankind is via the KJV?

The incarnation only lasted for 33 years after which the invisible and ineffable Holy Spirit took on the work of guiding people….and not just via scriptures and texts.

>>683570

You tell me. What sources are you getting this stuff from?

>>683575

>Some seek, most don't. Even your scripture says: [there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away…]

Disordered behavior on the part of many doesn't change the fact that all humans are only truly satisfied in God.

>God changes hearts and instructs us internally

This isn't the deist position, though. "Changing hearts" is supernatural intervention. If God reveals Himself to us privately, why not publicly, as through the prophets?

>he has all of nature to use as his revelation for us

And natural law is good, but it cannot be sufficient. The Greeks spent lots of time considering natural law, and they got a lot of good ideas out of it. They also buggered young men left and right.

>The incarnation only lasted for 33 years after which the invisible and ineffable Holy Spirit took on the work of guiding people….and not just via scriptures and texts.

Again, I agree 100%, but this is not the deist position. Deists do not believe in the supernatural workings of the Holy Spirit.

Recall that Jefferson once called the doctrine of the Holy Trinity "mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus".

>>683585

>that all humans are only truly satisfied in God.

Sure, people ought to desire God, but most don't, their hearts are twisted. 'The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked;'

>This isn't the deist position, though. "Changing hearts" is supernatural intervention. If God reveals Himself to us privately, why not publicly, as through the prophets?

I'm talking about theism, a personal God, without prophets/scriptures.

If God can instruct us personally and moves us internally, and if the signs of his power are all over creation why put so much stock in Prophets? I understand prophets as philosophers, guides who remind us of God and virtue and metaphysics.

But this is different than Prophets who come bearing a set of beliefs completely unique to them, completely unverifiable by any outside metric, and then saying Heaven and Hell revolve around believing in their particular and inscrutable message, and anyone who doubts their message is a heretic and a pariah and hellbound.

>The greeks had good ideas, but they also buggered young men left and right.

I think those accounts are vastly exaggerated, often times them admiring the male form, or wrestling naked, or going to public baths is taken as evidence of homosexuality…

>Again, I agree 100%, but this is not the deist position. Deists do not believe in the supernatural workings of the Holy Spirit.

I'm just talking about a Theist God, minus a series of prophets bearing messages that put your soul's fate under a metric you will never be able to verify or deduce without appeals to their divine authority.

>>683485

Because there's no reason to believe that the deist god is anything like that. Lacking any revelation what argument could you bring to bear against me supposing that the deist god devised this life and universe so that it'd be even more amusing when he rapes the souls of the dead?

Deism is basically atheism because it denies Providence. God is no longer God, but a super powered engineer. It’s an outdated belief system, if you ask me. Deists might as well become secular humanists because I see no difference betwixt the two.

>>683568

>>683562

>>683570

>>683576

Someone's been reading too much of Dante's fanfics, that's whats gone on here.

<America is a Christian nation

>>683753

/thread

>>684179

Sort of. America is a Christian majority nation, but our laws are secular.

>basically christianity, but

How to identify something that isn't Christian.

>>684189

>majority of people live with literally no sense of Christian values and don't even know fundamental Christian beliefs like atonement

>but they tick the "I'm Christian" box so that makes them Christian

>>684204

>Americans are no true Christianmen!

Literally a fallacy, thanks for playing.