/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>The people who tell you so fervently that theirs is the true church are not of the true church.

You'd have to prove it through Scripture. The Church Fathers believed that Christ's authentic Church is represented by Noah's Ark, all whom are outside of it shall not be saved.

Your personal interpretation can be safely disregarded on this point.

>>680551

Is it not pride to assume that your church is the only true church?

>>680551

And it is proven through scripture.

>>680551

Don't you dare capitalize "fathers" in "church fathers."

>>680553

Telling the truth is not prideful. Would you accuse Noah of being prideful by choosing to save his family?

>>680554

?

>>680558

Church Fathers.

>>680559

Did I say telling the truth is prideful?

The bible tells us to avoid those who assume authority, as it is an insult to God.

>>680560

And did not Jesus Christ bestow authority upon His Apostles? Did He not call Simon "Cephas", and stated that Christ's true Church will be built upon him?

I mean, there's that entire Pentecost thing, maybe you've heard of it?

>>680562

Are you calling yourself an apostle?

>>680563

?

>>680564

Don't play dumb with me. What I am asking you is as clear as day.

Do you have the authority to claim your church as the only true church?

>>680565

>And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1. Christ told Simon that he wasn't merely "Peter", this is a translation of "Cephas", which means great rock. Contrary to the usual Protestant argument, Christ was not saying "You are the rock, and on this rock, which is really myself, I will build this Church".

2. A visible Church was established at this very utterance of Jesus Christ, thus establishing the need for the true Church to be related to St. Peter, and for it to be in existence for about 2,000 years.

3. Christ not only christened His Bride, the Church here, He then promised that hell would never overcome, establishing the need for the visible Church with ties to St. Peter and the 2,000 years proof of existence, otherwise Jesus Christ lied.

This is the authority I obey, that of Christ.

>locate the One True Church

>start fervently advertising it as the One True Church

>it's not true church anymore

>anime pic gay thread

[-]

>>680567

Classic. You do not obey Christ's authority, you claim your own.

Who is referred to as the rock, repeatedly, throughout the bible?

The longevity of heretical churches does not prove anything. It is only a lie, and a test of our faith.

>>680569

>You do not obey Christ's authority, you claim your own.

You are a fool.

>Who is referred to as the rock, repeatedly, throughout the bible?

Whom did Christ christen "Great Rock", and then immediately proclaim that upon that rock, He will build His church?

>The longevity of heretical churches does not prove anything. It is only a lie, and a test of our faith.

The longevity of the Church is absolutely necessary, or Jesus Christ lied.

That you choose to turn away on the flimsiest of understandings is on your own head.

>>680567

You are holding man alone in too high esteem. Luke 16:15 says that what is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. And, as Catholics such as yourself point out, Catholicism is the largest denomination in Christianity. But it is not true Christianity. It puts false authority in man.

>>680570

Matthew 5:22

>>680572

>You are holding man alone in too high esteem.

You say this not to me, but to the Christ. I did not create the Church upon St. Peter, I did not proclaim that the Church will be built upon St. Peter, nor that from that time, it should never fall.

Christ did, and you admonish not me, but Christ.

>>680578

Respond to this one, numbnuts.

>>680573

>>680579

My brother does not attack the Bride of the Bride-groom, nor does my brother attack the Bride-groom.

>>680580

Am I attacking the bride, or the bride-groom? I'm certainly not calling you brother.

If you are going to avoid the fact that you called me a fool when our Lord explicitly forbade it, I will not respond to you any further.

>>680582

The Bride is the church, the bride-groom is Christ. When you attack Christ's authority, you are attacking Christ, do not be misled on this point.

>If you are going to avoid the fact that you called me a fool when our Lord explicitly forbade it,

To attack the Church is to attack Christ by-way of attacking His authority. It is foolish, truly foolish unto death. I'm not admonishing you for the sake of cruelty.

>"Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. All the categorical strength and point of this aphorism lies in its tautology. Outside the Church there is no salvation, because salvation is the Church" (G. Florovsky, "Sobornost: the Catholicity of the Church", in The Church of God, p. 53). Does it therefore follow that anyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned? Of course not; still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved. As Augustine wisely remarked: "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!" (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a "visible" and an "invisible Church", yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense, we cannot always say.

Metropolitan Kallistos Ware

>>680822

Anyone who thinks Christ's Church is not built upon St. Peter, and has not existed since the time of Christ's proclamation, is literally denying Christ by denying His Word and His authority.

Simon was only declared Cephas when he admitted that Jesus is the Christ, think upon it.

>>680794

Surely, a Greek Orthodox Bishop cannot be accused of a conflict of interest by denying the claim of the Catholic Church, surely.

>>680551

>>680562

>>680567

>>680570

>>680578

>>680585

>>680901

Do you work for CatholicAnswers or something?

Saint Ignatius- Keep yourselves from those evil plants which Jesus Christ does not tend, because they are not the planting of the Father. Not that I have found any division among you, but exceeding purity. For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of repentance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ. Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If any one walks according to a strange opinion, he agrees not with the passion [of Christ.].

Pope Saint Peter- So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position

Saint Augustine- Salvation no one can have but in the Catholic Church. Out of the Catholic Church he may have anything but salvation. He may have honor, he may have baptism, he may have the Gospel, he may both believe and preach in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost; but he can find salvation nowhere but in the Catholic Church.

Pope Pelagius (A.D. 578 – 590- Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. …Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. …Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. …[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church.” (Denzinger 246-247)

Pope Saint Gregory the Great- Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshiped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 – 1216)- “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 – 1878)- “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 – 1922)- “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

>>680554

Lmao, this is like Mohammed bragging that the Torah foretold his coming.

>>680550

damn man that's cool, much christian charity, i hope you have fun with jesus in heaven. what a winnie the pooh saint you are. i bet your body will smell like roses when you die.

>>680993

*f u c k i n g

>>680559

Your every faggy comment is dripping with pride, you damn virgin. You're playing Hilaire Belloc on a forum to appease your little sissy ego.

>>680996

I wish I was a virgin, anon. Just like Our Lord.

>>680912

No, I just study arguments instead of just allowing them to stew around like maggots.

>>680998

Okay, whatever, I was too aggressive, I'm sorry.

>>681001

You do not have Jesus Christ if you do not belong to His Body.

>>680995

>teehee ur all gay

>ur not christian at all

I don't believe I've really insulted anyone in this thread, aside from calling those who prefer to stay in the flood rather than the Ark, fools. Because they are.

>this "stick up your a s s" writing style so common among pretentious Catholics. I hate it.

Then keep on hating it. Hate it until you tire, then one day maybe you can seriously consider the implications of the Catholic Church being the true Church, and question what happens to those who are outside of it. It's what got me into the Ark.

11And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. 12And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? But he was silent. 13Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.

>>680999

God bless you!

>>680822

/thread

>>681471

>Every single human being always has Christ.

The word "has" somewhat disturbs me. Christ has me, but I don't own Him.

Otherwise I agree with you. Notice, however, that there are different degrees of "having". See below.

>His "body" was a methaphor to being closer to him.

No, no: "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you." (John 13:21)

The words "just as" mean that this is not a metaphor.

"I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity." (John 13:22)

This oneness is something that only members of the One True Church can have. Oneness in everything. Oneness in the love for every friend or enemy; oneness in the obedience, oneness in rejoicing in the suffering, supplementing in our flesh the shortage of suffering in Christ for the sake of the Church. (Colossians 1:24)

>>681471

>Every single human being always has Christ.

Then how can God send anyone to Hell? Even Satan cannot stand against himself.

>His "body" was a methaphor to being closer to him.

Over 2,000 years of the Church disagrees with you, and then, The Apostle himself: For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

We have the earliest records of Christians (St. Justin Martyr, the Muratonian Fragment) affirming the literal understanding of the Eucharist, we have St. Paul speaking of the Body and Blood of Christ as literal - not as an extended metaphor on sola fide - for how else can we eat and not believe and bring condemnation upon ourselves?

If we already don't believe, we're already condemned. How can we eat the Body of Christ and bring condemnation upon ourselves, if we already don't believe? St. Paul was literal, as was Christ.

>How DARE you propose the complete absence of our Lord from another human being because he had never "eaten" something?

Then how can anyone go to hell, anon? You trip over yourself in denying the Eucharist, poisoning the rest of your understanding of what Christ intends for us upon the earth.

>>680570

Low iq poster

>>680551

my church says that you're a huge faggot

>>680553

>>680550

This is the a great case in point for people to realize why protestantism has utterly failed. They have realized how totally out of control it has become and now have started this new nonsense that "oh no denomination has the all the truth" "God wants diversity so we can worship in different ways etc". Before prots used to be adamant that their church was really the right church - but they've realized now that it's such an impossible position to hold now with their new denominations popping up every day.

And don't even come at me saying that new denominations don't pop up every day. They literally are even faster now - everytime a 'pastor' has a fag son come out, they branch of and create a new fag loving variant. this has happened so many times. and it's only going to get worse and worse. extra ecclesiam nulla salus. you know who we are.

So by making this thread, telling everyone who believes that they belong to the true Church that they do not in fact belong to the true Church, aren't you implicitly making a claim about the identity true Church, and, therefore, proving that you too ARE NOT SAVED?

>>680902

I don't see much if anything in there that contradicts the position of the Catholic Church, but I'll admit this is rather complex and a bit over my head. The light of Christ is present throughout the world, even the light and work of Mary (See: Our Lady of Guadalupe). The sacraments of the church are the visible participatory signs of Christ's grace but that doesn't mean they're the only examples of Christ's grace or mercy in the world. There's concepts like invincible ignorance as well. None of this means Catholics don't have a mission to evangelize, nor does it mean that we shouldn't ideally hope for everyone to be converted to the Church, it simply means that the salvation of mankind is not entirely the burden of mankind themselves, and that anyone the church fails to convert or evangelize is doomed. Still there is a very real chance for those outside the Church to end up in hell, it's not a 100% done deal that simply.

>>680551

>The Church Fathers believed that Christ's authentic Church is represented by Noah's Ark

They also believed that graces were imparted by wood and water, hence also the Ark can be related to the cross. The critical difference is that Christ was crucified for all of humanity on the wood of the cross, not merely those who were already holy. He died for everyone not just the Church.

>>686814

*nor that anyone the church fails to convert or evangelize is doomed

Hello religious pluralism.