/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>673075

really makes you think

>>673076

It really does. In Genesis Enoch is mentioned as the first ever person to be raised to Heaven without dying, a privilege that wasn't even afforded to Noah or Abraham. Genesis gives no explanation as to why that was, 1 Enoch fills that gap and explains why Enoch was special enough to be raised bodily into Heaven. 1 Enoch is also quoted several times in the New Testament, even by Jesus, the epistle of Jude is heavily influenced by it. The rejection of 1 Enoch as inspired scripture is simply bizarre given these facts.

>>673075

>>673078

Based Jay Dyer confirming nephilim being Human-Angel rapebabies

>>673078

A book, supposedly written by the first guy to have been privileged to be assumed into Heaven, supposedly written before the Pentateuch, with information so delicate that we technically can build a whole world view from it, which supposedly hints towards Christ, even mentioned in Jude. Why is that not in Canon in the Church ? And more importantly: Why is it not in the Tanakh ? Imagine this incredibly important book, sparked from jewish tradition, yet the jews outright rejected it - older than the Pentateuch and important as it supposed to be ?

That doesn't make me think at all. We have enough in the current Canon - even in the butchered protestant bible - to contemplate and learn for several lifetimes. Who cares about a non-canonical book that is so obscure that it isn't even relevant for the jews.

>>673075

It has awful theology, for one. In the so-called Book of Enoch, Enoch becomes an angel, which seems to be a Pharisaical fanfiction.

>>673082

"No God please give us everything at once, it's not like armies of exegets are still debating numerous verses and parts of the current Canon."

Despite the fact that who knows whether it was inspired or just >>673081

Or are you not aware why God reveals His Truth gradually ? Furthermore, if it was really that relevant or important, why did the Holy Spirit not intervene when the Canon was declared ? Who knows who knows.

For sure a random weeb on the internet.

>>673083

I apologize for pulling the "muh weeb"-card. Rest stands tho.

>>673083

>are you not aware why God reveals His Truth gradually

This.

Who were they that went to look upon God in the tabernacle and burned to dust since they were yet impure to stand in His presence?

>>673075

Azazel was a place not an angel

>>673075

What could be the (((reason)))?

>>673113

>T. Never read it

>>673075

Could you post the quote about Jesus?

>>673135

>In that hour was this Son of man invoked before the Lord of spirits, and his name in the presence of the Ancient of days.

>Before the sun and the signs were created, before the stars of heaven were formed, his name was invoked in the presence of the Lord of spirits. A support shall he be for the righteous and the holy to lean upon, without falling; and he shall be the light of nations.

>He shall be the hope of those whose hearts are troubled. All, who dwell on earth, shall fall down and worship before him; shall bless and glorify him, and sing praises to the name of the Lord of spirits.

>Therefore the Elect and the Concealed One existed in his presence, before the world was created, and for ever.

>In his presence he existed, and has revealed to the saints and to the righteous the wisdom of the Lord of spirits; for he has preserved the lot of the righteous, because they have hated and rejected this world of iniquity, and have detested all its works and ways, in the name of the Lord of spirits.

>For in his name shall they be preserved; and his will shall be their life. In those days shall the kings of the earth and the mighty men, who have gained the world by their achievements, become humble in countenance.

>For in the day of their anxiety and trouble their souls shall not be saved; and they shall be in subjection to those whom I have chosen.

>I will cast them like hay into the fire, and like lead into the water. Thus shall they burn in the presence of the righteous, and sink in the presence of the holy; nor shall a tenth part of them be found.

>In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and his Messiah. The name of the Lord of spirits shall be blessed.

>>673137

>Wisdom is poured forth like water, and glory fails not before him for ever and ever; for potent is he in all the secrets of righteousness.

>But iniquity passes away like a shadow, and possesses not a fixed station: for the Elect One stands before the Lord of spirits; and his glory is for ever and ever; and his power from generation to generation.

>With him dwells the spirit of intellectual wisdom, the spirit of instruction and of power, and the spirit of those who sleep in righteousness; he shall judge secret things.

>Nor shall any be able to utter a single word before him; for the Elect One is in the presence of the Lord of Spirits, according to his own pleasure.

>>673137

I'm sorry, but this is VERY generic writing with random mumbo jumbo here and there. Wisdom of Solomon has way better prophesy in chapter 2. Apocryphal testament of Solomon has demon saying that God will become human and be crucified. There are apocrypha covering it MUCH better than what we have here.

You know, it is considered canon in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

>>673144

You're kidding right? It's a perfect description of Jesus, from describing the fact he existed with the Father before the universe, to him coming and saving the nations as their hope to the judgement at the second coming when "In his presence shall they fall, and not be raised up again; nor shall there be any one to take them out of his hands, and to lift them up: for they have denied the Lord of spirits, and his Messiah"

There's nothing generic or vague about it.

>>673149

They strike me as a bunch of goobers for a whole lot of other reasons.

>>673150

It is excluded because of the whole thing about Enoch becoming the Metatron.

>>673080

> yet the jews outright rejected it

Not surprising. They reject Christ, too.

>>673166

They held the book of Enoch in high regard until Christ came. Then they quickly rejected it. Not surprising with verses like this

>In those days, saith the Lord, they shall call to the children of the earth, and make them listen to their wisdom. Show them that you are their leaders;

>And that remuneration shall take place over the whole earth; for I and my Son will for ever hold communion with them in the paths of uprightness, while they are still alive. Peace shall be yours. Rejoice, children of integrity, in the truth.

>>673164

>It is excluded because of the whole thing about Enoch becoming the Metatron.

That happens in 3 Enoch which is a work from the 4th Century. 1 Enoch was written hundreds of years earlier around 300 BC

>>673174

I read the Shepherd of Hermas recently. It's very weird, I'm surprised it got so popular.

>>673177

I didn't realize we were only talking about 1 Enoch, my apologies.

>>673174

You're welcome. Yeah, private reading is fine, my problem with this particular book is that /x/ won't shut up about it.

>>673182

It means onto other boards, including this one. Don't pretend they don't.

>>673185

*leaks onto

>>673177

>I read the Shepherd of Hermas recently. It's very weird, I'm surprised it got so popular.

I actually haven't given it a read, since I'm still in the middle of Eusebius' History of the Church. How weird are we talking?

>>673179

>my problem with this particular book is that /x/ won't shut up about it

>browsing /x/

They willingly cavort with demons and put themselves in grand danger.

They most likely read the Books of Enoch in an attempt to mantle him or find some knowledge.

>>673188

I haven't browsed it in ages because of all the bullshittery you mentioned.

>>673192

Good, I thought you continued to do so.

If there was ever a place that would warrant exorcism, it's /x/.

>book containg retarded fables and heresies

>why the Church doesn't recognise it as canon

Gee I don't know anon. Why isn't the gospel of Judas or the gospel of nicodemos on the canonical list as well?

>book talks about Christ guyz

Wew it's almost if the belief in a messiah wasn't a Jewish tradition and that issaiah didn't say God would come in person or that Daniel never spoke about the son of God.

Btw the book of "henoc" is recent as winnie the pooh. At least from the 5th century BC

>>673234

5th century BC would make it one of the earlier OT books.

>>673272

It would still be more recent than the majority of the books of the prophets.

>>673231

>Gee I don't know anon. Why isn't the gospel of Judas or the gospel of nicodemos on the canonical list as well?

titus 1:14

>Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

>>673274

Who would have known that those fables had one or two sentences that were true?

You can even look into the new testament apocrypha there are somethings that are based on truth. But 95% of it is pure falsehood.

Sincerely I don't get the protestant boner for apocryphal books, but somehow the deutero Canon isn't inspired scripture

>>673274

Sorry I misread.

Yes Titus just proves that you shouldnt believe on those shit.

>>673104

The book of enoch says Azazel was a fallen angel but Azazel was actually a place

>>673418

The place was named after the Angel that fell there

>>673188

>How weird are we talking?

Pretty weird. It's a very long trippy style dialogue between Hermas and the personification of the early Church, who initially appears as a withered old woman but slowly becomes more beautiful as the faithful correct their sinful behavior.

> Now, brethren, a revelation was made unto me in my sleep by a youth of exceeding fair form, who said to me, "Whom thinkest thou the aged woman, from whom thou receivedst the book, to be?" I say, "The Sibyl" "Thou art wrong," saith he, "she is not." "Who then is she?" I say. "The Church," saith he. I said unto him, "Wherefore then is she aged?" "Because," saith he, "she was created before all things; therefore is she aged; and for her sake the world was framed."

There are lots of parables and metaphors. It was one of the most popular early works, there are tons of copies still existing.

>>673075

Perhaps it is not included in the canon because the canon only includes books written by those who are a part of the covenant of Abraham, and due to it being antediluvian it is not needed to achieve knowledge for salvation.