/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>1. Be born of the house of David. (Isaiah 11:1)

And also be born of Virgin (Isaiah 7, 66). So it had to be legal line. Plus Mary was from David line as most ancient witnesses assert.

>2. Restore Israel. (Jeremiah 33:7)

One billion people are now part of Israel, New Israel that Christ made and it is bigger, wealthier and more beautiful than Salomon kingdom ever was.

>4. Build the Third Temple. (Ezekiel 40-48)

Where o where does Ezekiel says that Third Temple is physical? He does not. "The Lord is there", Emanuel is the Temple and the City and the New Israel

>>5. Teach everyone the Law so they will know it by heart. (Jeremiah 31:33)

And we do. Grace and such. Read Catechism for once.

>>6. Establish monotheism worldwide. (Zechariah 8:22)

And we are monotheist. Fides autem catholica haec est: ut unum Deum in Trinitate, et Trinitatem in unitate veneremur Credo in unum Deum, Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei consubstantialem Patri, Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem.

Careful with those pearls, boys.

>>667988

>prove me "your" Jesus is the Messiah and I'll convert

>czech maid you can't prove it because I just disprove it

>convert or become noahide

>blasphemy blasphemy blasphemy

Alrighty mate, how about you read a book or two yourself instead of "demanding" others to do the work for you while you insult them ?

>Christians in fact worship Jesus and the Holy Spirit alongside God. This is not monotheism. The Tanakh nowhere says the Messiah will God and this is a later Christian concept invented when it mixed with Greek philosophy.

And this is where your idiocy slipped. Genuine jews would never be uttering "God", even "Lord". You're just a fedora edgefriend trying to throw dirt at Christ. Cultural jew at best with nice reddit spacing. Go back to r/atheism, you belong there, not here. >>667991 rebuked you. Now convert.

God bless

>>667991

>Fides autem catholica haec est: ut unum Deum in Trinitate, et Trinitatem in unitate veneremur Credo in unum Deum, Et in unum Dominum Iesum Christum, Filium Dei consubstantialem Patri, Et in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem.

Why dont latins speak coherent language that everyone understands? Do you think that sentence in a dead language will convince others?

>>667995

Orthodox Jews might. I'm not an Orthodox I consider myself Reform with some Conservative leanings. Besides you'd just accuse me of LARPing anyway. I'm not but idc what you think.

How is that temple doing, rabbi?

>But you worship two other figures alongside the Almighty. You can claim all you want that it's monotheistic but it's not. The Trinity is not monotheistic. It's Greek.

This is your brain on talmudism

>Isaiah 7:14 is wrongly translated by Christian Bibles. This was due to a mistake by the translators of the Septuagint who wrongly translated the Hebrew "almah" as virgin into Greek when actually the word almah simply means a young woman, not a virgin

Let's assume almah can only mean young woman, as you say. Mary was still around the age of betrothal, probably 12 -14 when she had Jesus. She was still a young woman by Bibical standards. Therefore I'm not sure why this matters

>>667988

>"Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." — Isaiah 53:12

>"And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors." — Mark 15:28

>"But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend." — Isaiah 41:8

>"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." — Galatians 3:16

>"For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me." — Isaiah 45:4

>"Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God." — Hosea 1:10

>"And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God." — Hosea 2:23

>"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." — 1 Peter 2:9-10

>since the New Testament gives contradicting genealogies for Joseph.

Matthew 1 gives Joseph's line (X begat Y, Y begat Z); Luke 3 gives Mary's line, where Joseph being the son-in-law of Heli (Z which was the son of Y, which was the son of X). This also explains why Jesus is the first person in the list, and why God is the last person in the list.

>Jesus did not restore Israel but instead got himself crucified.

He was raised up the third day according to the scriptures. He currently holds the scepter of Judah according to the fulfilled prophecy of Genesis 49:10.

>It is in no way like the prophesied Messianic age.

>"Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion." — Psalm 2:6

>In fact Christians are taught to abhor the Law given to Moses at Sinai and do not follow it at all in accordance with the teachings of Paul.

See Romans 7.

>The Tanakh nowhere says the Messiah will God

>"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." — Isaiah 9:6

>That Jesus rose from the dead and is going to come back to fulfill the prophecies has got to be one of the worst cop outs ever and is nowhere in the Hebrew Bible.

Acts 2:29-32

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Jeremiah 31:31-34

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Hebrews 8:6-10

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 2:7-9

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Psalm 8:5-6

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Isaiah 45:22-23

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Philippians 2:7-11

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Justin Martyr refuted your argument nearly 2000 years ago. See his Dialogue with Trypho.

>>667988

>Isaiah 7:14 is wrongly translated by Christian Bibles. This was due to a mistake by the translators of the Septuagint who wrongly translated the Hebrew "almah" as virgin into Greek when actually the word almah simply means a young woman

The translation was correct.

Up until the 20th century every young girl was assumed to be a virgin.

This assumption was so general that in Koine Greek the same word was used for a young girl and a virgin, namely Παρθένος (parthenos).

If I remember correctly, the word 'maiden' in English also means both young girl and virgin.

Even if, let's say, it is indeed meant to be a young woman, Mary still fits the description since she got pregnant of Christ around the age of 13.

>In fact Christians are taught to abhor the Law given to Moses at Sinai and do not follow it at all in accordance with the teachings of Paul. Jesus actually did follow the Law but clearly since Paul corrupted his message and did the complete opposite of Jeremiah 31:33 Jesus did not fulfill this prophecy and thus Jesus cannot be the Messiah.

This is the exact Jewish mindset He came to abolish.

It's the spirit of the Law that needs to be followed, and Christ fulfilled the Law making us loose from the traditional Law.

In all seriousness there are dozens of works on these questions by saints spanning 2000 years.

Go look them up.

>>667988

I'm pretty sure we shook the dust off our sandals centuries ago when it came to the Jews. You're going to have to learn on your own.

>>667988

Hi, /pol/! I'm so glad you've come here pretending to be Jewish. What were you hoping to accomplish? Did the "raid /christian/ lol" thread not provide enough fruit from your sad little tree?

>>668007

You give conclusive scriptures and receive no reply. Sad.

>>667996

We avoid linguistic confusion among us in this way.

>>668079

>3 posts by OP

Probably just a troll false flagging

>>667996

This sentences are easy to understand in english, maybe save for "autem", "haec", "vivificantem". I refuse to believe that Anglo-Saxons are so blind and uncultured that they don't know what "Dominum", "Deus" and "et" means.

>>667998

>There is no legal line for David.

There is Re-read Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Since when you accept Muslim claims that adoption is null and void?

> Isaiah 7:14 is wrongly translated in Christian versions of the Tanakh and is clearly about King Hezekiah.

<LXX

<Christian

And I could end here but I will bully you more, rat.

>There is no evidence Mary was from David,

Except for countiuos tradition of the Church

>nor Joseph since your New Testament gives contradicting genealogies.

<What is levitical marriage

>

Wrong. There is no such thing as a spiritual Israel. Suppersessionismis is not supported by the Hebrew Bible and is highly offensive to Jews, who are the real Israel. There are 15 million of us worldwide. Israel is not restored.

Israel is Restored. It's called Catholic Church. Your synagogue of Satan is dead, cutted branch, as proven by greatest pharassie of all times, Saint Paul

>Again, your "spiritual" excuse. It's clearly physical and the Messiah will build it when he comes.

Except you did not prove it.

>Your grace is not the Law. Paul abolished the Law for Christians.

Law is threefold. Christ abolished ceremonies and jurisdiction. Moral law stands. Read Summa, you tigger.

>But you worship two other figures alongside the Almighty.

What part of "Unum Deum" you do not understand?

>You can claim all you want that it's monotheistic but it's not. The Trinity is not monotheistic. It's Greek.

Show me where in all corpus of Greek thought before Paul there is a single line about consubstantial Trinity, you utter retard.

>You didn't answer the third criteria. Lol

Because I was too busy laughing my ass off. But here it comes:

>>3. Establish peace on earth. (Isaiah 11:6)

Second Coming, QED. Or inner peace of Catholic Church where sinners are reconciled to God. Choose what you want.

>>668205

Also, go read this since it answers all your objections and more

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0128.htm

>>668074

>implying they still have a tree

You'd be surprised.

>>668205

>This sentences are easy to understand in english, maybe save for "autem", "haec", "vivificantem". I refuse to believe that Anglo-Saxons are so blind and uncultured that they don't know what "Dominum", "Deus" and "et" means.

Why do you assume that everyone is Anglo-Saxon here? I dont even speak Indo-European language. Yes, I can partially understand what is written there, because I had some interest in Latin. But not everyone knows it. In other words: WRITE IN A LANGUAGE THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS HERE

>>668210

Sorry, but 90% of anti-"usage of latin" guys are american prots.

But sure, why not: This is what the Catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity. I believe in one God, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God consubstantial with the Father and in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life.

>>668026

I would assume it's common in other languages for young girl to mean virgin as well. For instance the German word for virgin, jungfrau, literally translates to "young woman"

>>668026

>If I remember correctly, the word 'maiden' in English also means both young girl and virgin.

Yes, that's why a ship's first voyage is called a "maiden voyage."

>“For I will not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery (that you be not wise in yourselves) that blindness in part hath chanced in Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles might enter…” (Romans 11:25)

If it’s God’s will that you convert, then so be it, welcome to the family of Christ. But if not, know that one day your children will. I will say that most of your arguments can be boiled down to “If God really wanted to send the Messiah, why didn’t he do it right the first time”? However, you’re missing the point of the gospel, which is that Spirtual Israel (meaning every single person God knew [but not predestined] before the creation of the world would follow him in faith with what he had shown them at that time) must include all people. Unlike your Judaism, it doesn’t matter who you are, or what law you follow, but rather why you follow God. I admit, not every Christian follows God perfectly or for the right reasons, but to peraphrase a famous Act of Contrition from the Catholic Church, “I don’t fear the fire of hell or the loss of heaven because of my sins, but rather because my sins separate me from you, my God.” If you don’t walk away a Christian, I hope you at least walk away a better Jew, who follows Torah because you truly love God, and just because your family (both your immediate biological family and synagogue members) told you to.

>>667988

>There is no proof Mary was from the house of David.

That Mary, the mother of Jesus, was from the house of David, can be deduced by the fact the gospels don't even try to defend her lineage (because it was unnecessary to do so). The talmud, too, doesn't deny her royal lineage: "Rabi Papa said: "This is that which they say "She was the descentant of princes and rulers, she played the harlot with carpenters" (b. Sanh. 106a)

>Prove to me your Jesus is the Messiah and I will become a Christian.

Anything that can be proved is open to dispute. The reason we are Christians is not because we have a proof that He is the Messiah. We are Christians because we have faith in Him. Faith is better than proof because it is undisputable.

When one has faith, he reads the Bible and he finds countless proofs that Jesus is the Messiah. However when one has no faith, then his ears are dull of hearing and his eyes are closed, so that he can't see with his eyes, hear with his ears or understand with his heart (compare Isaiah 6:9-10).

Jesus did countless of miracles and yet many didn't believe. Instead they said "He casts out demons by Baal-Zebub, the prince of the demons" (Luke 11:15) The talmud, too, in many places alleges that He did the miracles by some magic art He learned in Egypt.

> Paul corrupted his message.

No, the message of Paul was very clear. The law says "Cursed is anyone who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out" (Deut. 27:26) Have you upholded the words of the law? All of them? Be honest (not with me, but with youself) and acknowledge that you have not. Well, then you are cursed.

You prefer to reject the grace of Jesus and to rely on the law? Fine, you may, but then you are cursed. The law can not save you, the law can only make you cursed.

So instead of remaining cursed and rejected by God, take the alternative gratiously provided by Him.

>>667998

>Jews, who are the real Israel.

t. viper