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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: b9a2c7e9f021c40⋯.jpg (296.46 KB, 792x539, 72:49, St. James, brother of the ….jpg)

04898c No.663947

According to Wikipedia (in the article about the Epistle of James) Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy have historically argued that the passage James 2:14-26 disproves the doctrine of justification by faith alone. Protestants, however, resolve the apparent conflict between this passage and the teachings of Paul in an alternate ways. Then as an example of Protestant view Wikipedia provides the following text:

> Paul was dealing with one kind of error while James was dealing with a different error. The errorists Paul was dealing with were people who said that works of the law were needed to be added to faith in order to help earn God's favor. Paul countered this error by pointing out that salvation was by faith alone apart from deeds of the law (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:21-22). Paul also taught that saving faith is not dead but alive, showing thanks to God in deeds of love (Galatians 5:6 ['…since in Christ Jesus it is not being circumcised or being uncircumcised that can effect anything - only faith working through love.']). James was dealing with errorists who said that if they had faith they didn't need to show love by a life of faith (James 2:14-17). James countered this error by teaching that faith is alive, showing itself to be so by deeds of love (James 2:18,26). James and Paul both teach that salvation is by faith alone and also that faith is never alone but shows itself to be alive by deeds of love that express a believer's thanks to God for the free gift of salvation by faith in Jesus.

Now, I am doubly puzzled by this. First, I'd like to ask: is this actually the Protestant view? If yes, then which Protestants? Because this text doesn't actually sound to me as "salvation is by faith only, no deeds are required". What actually is the meaning of "justification by faith alone"?

Second, this text supposedly provides an explanation which is different from that of Roman Catholics and the Orthodox. Now, I myself am an Orthodox and I am ignorant about Roman Catholicism (and I don't really care much about it), but I can't see in this text things that contradict my Orthodox faith. So my second question is this: Is there something non-Orthodox, or non-RomanCatholic in this text that I can't see?

If I have to add something important to this text, then it would be this: We are saved by Gods grace. When someone has no deeds, then he is in a spiritual state when he has barred himself from receiving the Gods grace. Thats why deeds are required but by themselves they are worthless and contain no saving power, and it is unwise to be proud about deeds.

0ae67d No.663952

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.


01abff No.663960

>>663952

I love that man so much


b987f4 No.664742

Yes, that can be taken as a distinctly Protestant view, because the key word for their interpretation of James is "show." A saved person shows that they are saved to others by doing good works. However even if, for the sake of argument, a saved person had no good works and only bad works, they would not become unsaved. Our actions have no role in our judgment before God (at least with respect to salvation versus damnation). That's basically what the Lutheran Formula of Concord says. On the other hand Catholics and Orthodox would interpret this passage of James (following the more plain, face-value of the words) in light of mortal sin (if man have no works, can faith save him?)


88559f No.664747

File: 20ce9cf4eb72183⋯.jpg (29.1 KB, 672x372, 56:31, 27635081110_e2e4f3a6e7_k-6….jpg)

>>663947

> Eastern Orthodoxy have historically argued that the passage James 2:14-26 disproves the doctrine of justification by faith alone

"So we, as Orthodox Christians, affirm as clearly and unambiguously as any Lutheran, for example, that “salvation is by grace” and not by our works. Unlike medieval Catholicism, Orthodoxy does not hold that a person can build up a “treasury of merits” that will count in our favor at the Judgment Seat of Christ. What will matter then is our having surrendered our sin to God through confession, and our gestures of love (Mt. 25), together with the unshakable conviction that “Jesus Christ is Lord,” and the unique Way to eternal life.

Orthodoxy does recognize, however, the importance of our “cooperation” with God, what we term “synergy.” “Salvation,” as we usually understand the word, is only the beginning of a pilgrimage that leads us through this life, through our physical death, and into life beyond."

https://oca.org/reflections/fr.-john-breck/salvation-is-indeed-by-grace


5fb0db No.664748

File: 7b755593514791e⋯.png (271.33 KB, 440x439, 440:439, 1.png)

>>664747

>orthoprots

Ok this has to stop


88559f No.664750

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>664748

>>664747

It's more of a non-question in orthodoxy.

Faith vs Works argument is a False dichotomy.

Father Spyridon explains.


04898c No.664788

>>664742

>However even if, for the sake of argument, a saved person had no good works and only bad works, they would not become unsaved.

Then suppose I have shown by some good works that I have faith. Then I am saved according to the protestants, right? Then what if I change? Suppose I still have faith but I hate God and I love the devil and become a servant of the Antichrist (or whoever enemy of God, if there is no Antichrist). Then what? Am I still saved?

>>664747

>Unlike medieval Catholicism, Orthodoxy does not hold that a person can build up a “treasury of merits”

Was there something like this in Catholicism oficially? Suppose I have done miriads of good deed through my whole life. But then only a moment before I die I sin and I don't repent. Am I saved acording to Catholicism?

I think in Orthodoxy if I die in this unfortunate way, then I am not automatically saved by my former deeds. Although the prayers of the Church for me can help my soul and I can hope to be forgiven at the Last Judgement.

On the contrary, if I do bad works all my life (and have no faith), but I repent a moment before I die, then I am saved.

>>664750

>Father Spyridon explains.

Thanks.


b987f4 No.664833

>>664747

>We believe a man to be not simply justified through faith alone, but through faith which works through love, that is to say, through faith and works. But [the idea] that faith can fulfill the function of a hand that lays hold on the righteousness which is in Christ, and can then apply it unto us for salvation, we know to be far from all Orthodoxy. For faith so understood would be possible in all, and so none could miss salvation, which is obviously false. But on the contrary, we rather believe that it is not the correlative of faith, but the faith which is in us, justifies through works, with Christ. But we regard works not as witnesses certifying our calling, but as being fruits in themselves, through which faith becomes efficacious, and as in themselves meriting, through the Divine promises {cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10} that each of the Faithful may receive what is done through his own body, whether it be good or bad.

http://www.crivoice.org/creeddositheus.html

>>664788

If they believe in OSAS, they would generally say either you were never saved to begin with, or that you're still saved regardless of what you do.

>Was there something like this in Catholicism oficially? Suppose I have done miriads of good deed through my whole life. But then only a moment before I die I sin and I don't repent. Am I saved acording to Catholicism?

Yeah, that's just a cariacature of medieval Catholicism. The term "treasury of merit" is from Catholic teaching on indulgences, which has nothing to do with that. If you die after committing a mortal sin without repenting, than you will not be saved, regardless of past good works.


5fb0db No.664903

>>664750

I apologize for that post [>>664748] (I know that video very well, because Fr. Spyridon is one of the few orthos I give a listen, because he's not all out slandering) because it was very stupid.


36c546 No.664907

File: 0ce678f0aeb4f93⋯.jpg (108.49 KB, 400x400, 1:1, 56423793.jpg)


392736 No.664946

File: 14006f86f262dad⋯.jpg (55.88 KB, 514x536, 257:268, 140.jpg)

>>664750

>Father Spyridon


5fe589 No.664949

>>664748

Modern Catholicism believes the same as the Orthodox - synergism. This is neither medieval Catholicism's pseudo-Pelagianism nor Protestantism's monergism.


6c207f No.665053

>>664907

Think that God's grace = license to sin with impunity?

Do those who highly value God's abundant grace and His gift of eternal righteousness in Christ Jesus say "yes" to the question above?

Does God's grace towards us encourage sin, or does it oppose sin in us for our own sakes?

Does God's grace = license to live a godly life in Christ Jesus?

(Even in this present evil age?)




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