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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: f011c697dfe8096⋯.jpg (12.29 KB, 255x220, 51:44, lmao.jpg)

f19808 No.663426

I've heard an argument from skeptics that the historical Jesus never claimed he was God, is this true?

a0b624 No.663427

>>663426

That was one of the things He said that the Pharisees tried to use as an excuse to kill him.


359474 No.663429

>>663426

>is this true?

no


0b1825 No.663440

>>663426

Are atheists going to support any Christian orthodox if they can get away with saying the opposite.

What do you expect from them anyways?

The new testament is one of earliest if not the earliest discussions about Jesus, but they discard it because it's 'biased' while not comprehending the irony of their own statement.

Not fall to lie that if someone present themselves as secular that means they are unbiased-no body is unbiased. So put on your cross and proclaim the gospel to all creatures.


cf3f29 No.663444

>>663426

>allows the apostles to worship Him

>allows the apostles to call him God

>forgives sins, which only God can do

>claims to have existed eternally before Abraham

>shows command over nature, doesn't claim to be getting his power from God because he IS God

>claims He will be the one to judge mankind at the end

>claims Himself to be the Way, Truth, and Life doesn't say God is because it would be redundant


ab58db No.663446

"Before Abraham was, I AM"

>b-but that doesn't mean Jesus is claiming to be God, the pharisees wanted to stone him for entirely different reasons


541cd9 No.663454

>>663426

(((skeptics)))


13d5a6 No.663543

Don't need to claim you're God, when you are God. Compare it to the (((jews))) that keep claiming that they're jews, when they're actually not jews.


5eb0ff No.663547

>>663426

These people are probably reading old Bart Ehrman stuff, but he changed his mind about this: https://ehrmanblog.org/jesus-as-god-in-the-synoptics-for-members/

To summarise from the article: "So yes, now I agree that Jesus is portrayed as a divine being, a God-man, in all the Gospels. But in very different ways, depending on which Gospel you read."


240461 No.663551

I'm just gonna keep spamming this.

Here are 7 parts of the Bible where Jesus confirms His own divinity.

S.S.W.I.F.T.T.

SON of Man

Daniel 7:13

>13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Jesus calls Himself the Son of Man multiple times.

Lord of the SABBATH

Mark 2:23-28

>23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

>24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

>25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

>26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

>27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

>28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The Sabbath is the LORD's day, and the Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath.

I AM

John 8:56-59

>56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

>57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

>58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

>59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Here, the Son of Man uses the same declaration as God in the burning bush with Moses. He quite explicitly calls Himself God, and the Jews rage shows this was what He meant.

FORGIVENESS of Sins

Mark 2:5-7

>5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

>6 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

>7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

His authority to forgive sins comes from His divinity.

TRIAL

Mark 14:61-62

>61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

>62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Once again, Christ calls Himself the Son of Man and refers to the prophecies of Daniel.

Luke 23:3

>3 And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.

He gives a positive answer to Pilate, rather than correcting him.

THOMAS

John 20:28-29

>28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

>29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

He does not correct Thomas, as He would is Thomas were in error. Rather, He blesses him.


dbbf75 No.663567

>>663551

Bonus for ya:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the king of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.

Revelation 1:17-18 And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell.


167ade No.663580

>>663427

If you are referring to passage from John, no, he said that if ordinary humans are called gods and all of us are sons of most high, then he has more legitimacy to claim these titles, for being sent directly from father and then immediately repeats that "He and Father are one". So yes, He directly claimed that He was God and not "god" in sense as it is used on us in the bible.


9c6fe5 No.663684

>>663426

What are the sources on the "historical" Jesus? Nothing.

So called "historical" Jesus is just a misreading of the Gospels.


dbbf75 No.663715

>>663684

Historical Jesus in Incarnate Word of God, Christ the King.


e8cd45 No.663720

File: 3d18c409195631c⋯.png (82.58 KB, 290x200, 29:20, WcjKJT6.png)

>>663684

>Hey guise where are the historical sources for Christ except for these historical sources for Christ?

(((you)))


a0373a No.663725

>>663547

>Bart Ehrman

Is a bigger joke in all of atheism?


5a0fb6 No.663726

>>663720

Why are the recent trolling attempts so lame?


e8cd45 No.663729

>>663726

Summer, probably.


ab58db No.663733

>>663547

There's something beautifully instructive about how Ehrman went apostate over the problem of suffering as experienced by some Cambodians at his local congregation who made it through the Pol Pot regime but the people who actually did the suffering stuck with the faith.


fb4702 No.664362

>>663426

Seeing as it's not even proven "the historical Jesus" was an actually existing person, it would be impossible to accurately answer this question.


3ced12 No.664388

>>663720

>>663715

>>663726

>>663729

I think you guys are misunderstanding him. He's claiming, as I see it, that the truly historical Jesus is the Jesus present in the Gospels, and that the reconstruction that academics refer to as the "historical Jesus" is just an intentional misreading of the Gospels




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