/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

No.

>>659330

It's one of his best videos and arguments

>>659330

fpbs again!

>>659332

that's quite sad actually

>>659332

>Even though I’m a nonbeliever, would I be scared to learn that God really does exist? No. Far from it. The belief that God desires praise, worship, and violent retribution, comes from a lack of understanding about what it’s like to be an enlightened being. It is ignorance projecting ignorance.

Amazing, no one has ever argued this before.

>>659334

>>659337

So you want to be slaves of a cruel god and don't want to debate this ok

>>659338

I couldn't care less what an ill-informed, willfully ignorant atheist has to say about the Most High.

>The theist view of God is actually far more insulting than the atheist view.

This is literally "Democrats are the REAL racists!" of theology arguments. Is this worth discussing to you?

"three people meet a thing that doesn't exist"

Must be some good drugs.

>>659340

They're the only ones who'd know about this place. The normies are too busy shilling for libtards and SJWs to care about us.

>>659339

>>659340

It's not insulting for your god to be considered a monster sending people in hell forever according to you?

This is insanely retarded. repent

>>659344

>I have no idea what I'm talking about

Keep going brah

>>659347

So your god doesn't send people in hell forever?

>>659344

>It's not insulting for your god to be considered a monster sending people in hell forever according to you?

A monster according to whom?

He doesn't send anyone to Hell. You do it to yourself. And these are His words, not ours.

Could you people at least read up on some Chrsitian Theology before you shit up our board with this entry level garbage? Please?

>>659348

>I don't know what free will is

>>659350

>>659351

So a christian must not fear hell he can do anything

>>659350

This. It's painfully obvious that you have zero knowledge on Christian theology. Do some reading and come back with some cogent thoughts.

>>659356

If you choose to go to hell like he said >>659350 what makes sodomy incompatible with being a christian for example? You can be a sodomite yet go to heaven because it is your choice in the end

>>659361

>632k subscribers

>>659358

Because sodomy is a sin, and if you remain impenitent or inrepentent of it until you die, you risk damnation. You absolutely cannot be a practicing sodomite and go to Heaven.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? Do you have trouble using your free will to obey the laws of human society? Because, you know, if you don't you will get punished.

>>659364

SO you want a god to fear like I said since beginning

>>659365

It's a sin but you still want to go to heaven, so it is a punishment from your god, so you must fear your god…there is no exit from this loophole

>>659338

Better a slave to righteousness than a slave to sin

>>659368

Why would god be righteous if he is god and has no partners, he can do whatever he wants as he does

>>659366

>SO you want a god to fear like I said since beginning

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

>>659339

Democrats are racist though, because they judge white people by their race

>>659366

What are you talking about? This is the same mentality of a child whining for everything he wants, with out any of the consequences.

>>659370

Therefore darkmatter is right about you lol, you want a skydaddy, you think it is not an insult for him to be considered a monster to fear

Too boring, and the cartoon draftsmanship was horrible. I couldn't finish. Can I get a summary?

>>659376

Calling him a monster is blasphemy, calling him fearful is righteous.

>>659374

A child fears his parents, you want a relationship like that forever? A god spanking you in the ass?

>>659378

What humans fear? Zombies, aliens, serial killers, predators, etc…

So why would god not be put in the monsters list if we must fear him

>>659366

>It's a sin but you still want to go to heaven, so it is a punishment from your god, so you must fear your god…there is no exit from this loophole

Of course we fear God's Power. We fear God because we are sinners deserving of His Wrath, but we repent of our sins (and refrain from them as much as possible) and hope in His Mercy. We do this by turning our free will to conform with His Gospel. This is our "loophole". Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.

Sodomy is not a punishment form God. What the shit are you talking about?

Dude, read some books on this. You are embarrassing yourself. Stop listening to charlatans from YT who also have no idea what they are talking about.

>>659377

muslim, atheist., and Christian die and go to purgatory. Atheist goes to heaven for being a good boi and god gets mad at the muslim and Christian beause they actually have faith.

Basically just retarded atheist crap.

>>659381

Because you should fear your parents and authority

>>659369

Yes, and He wants to do righteous things, which he does

>>659384

What makes the authority not a monster? Was stalin not a monster?

>>659387

Pretty sure Stalin isn't God and didn't want the best for people

>>659380

A child who fears his parents respects them, and becomes a good man. A child who doesn’t fear his parents disrespects his parents and becomes a degenerate. I’m just hoping you’re the former.

>>659388

But he was the authority there

>>659389

A child will grow up, you are never going to grow up with god, you will be in a constant state of submission rather than a relationship

>>659386

He can change his mind any time he wants

>>659383

lol The conceit, self-righteousness, pretentiousness, and hypocrisy of atheists never ceases to amaze me. Thank God for them and the amusement they provide. They need to work on the art skills, tho.

>>659391

I do have a relationship with my creator. It’s not the best, but I try. Now answer my question, how does living a “free” life without God better for a person who tries to live by God’s rules? Don’t say free from a ruler, that doesn’t count.

>>659396

If god is a monster there is no benefit, if your parents were muslims you were a muslim and would have a completely different concept of god

So we must understand if there is a better view of god than the christian one which I think there is

>>659390

Not the same thing

>why is it different?

Because Stalin was doing wrong things, God and hopefully your parents though based on your temperament I doubt it aren’t doing wrong things.

>your god does though

If you’re trying to say the God of the Bible is bad you have to accept the premise of the Bible, so when God says “there weren’t even 10 people in sodem who didn’t deserve execution” He was telling the truth, with in the context of the Bible.

You should just stick to saying the Bible isn’t true

>>659390

So?

>>659391

>you will be in a constant state of submission rather than a relationship

Submission IS the relationship. You are a soldier offering yourself to enlist and serve your master. If you desert or rebel, you will be "court martialed". What's wrong with this?

>>659397

>If god is a monster there is no benefit,

You first have to prove God is a monster, which have failed to do.

>if your parents were muslims you were a muslim and would have a completely different concept of god

Irrelevant nativist argument.

Why are you so offended by this thought of serving something above yourself? Wh yis your thinking so one-dimensional? Why haven't you studied this at all?

>>659397

God isn’t a monster, he is just. From what I read, most of the people that were punished by God were degenerates and monsters themselves, sort of like the same people we’re seeing today.

>>659397

>better view of god than the christian one which I think there is

And you're wrong and going to the lake of fire where there shall be a wailing and gnashing of teeth unless you convert.

>>659392

Can, yes. Does no

Within the context of the Bible is that is

>>659402

>What's wrong with this?

Everything and jesus was the opposite of what you say

>which have failed to do

Torturing people makes you a monster to me, hell is torture and he allows it and sends you there like you said

>Irrelevant nativist argument

It's not irrelevant, muslims kill those who leave religion and live with fear of hell for doing it

>Why are you so offended by this thought of serving something above yourself?

Why are you interested in submission rather than an equal relationship?

>>659403

>God isn’t a monster, he is just

The old testament shows a dark part of his personality, like killing children with bears

>>659404

>And you're wrong and going to the lake of fire

Proves my argument about your god-fearing complex, a muslim would say the same to me for becoming a christian

>>659405

God can overcome the bible anytime he wants, he can contradict the bible

>>659410

What, where did it say that God killed children with bears? What bible did you read, if at all? What denomination of Christianity did you come from?

>>659410

>Everything and jesus was the opposite of what you say

Lel of course he was. How convenient. Care to back that up? Have you even read the Gospels?

>Torturing people makes you a monster to me, hell is torture and he allows it and sends you there like you said

You send yourself to Hell by refusing God's mercy.

>It's not irrelevant, muslims kill those who leave religion and live with fear of hell for doing it

Your argument is irrelevant because the "but your parents were X" is 1) not concrete and 2) applies to you too. Muslims also have bigger problems than that. They worship a false God. You want to talk about a cruel God? Go to /islam/.

>Why are you interested in submission rather than an equal relationship?

Because equality is fundamentally impossible and irrelevant, especially when this is with the Creator. What is desirable about equality?

>>659416

It's in 2 Kings Chapter 2 when children mock Elisha while he was mourning Elijah.

Of course God being a big meanie just killed those children for no reason.

>>659419

Thanks for that anon, and for providing the context as well.

>>659410

>a muslim would say the same to me for becoming a christian

Apparently your knowledge of Christianity is only surpassed by your knowledge of Islam. In different Islamic traditions, God-fearing Christians either go to Jannah or Araf, but not Jahannam. Don't you think you could at least read a few Wikipedia articles about these religions before trying to discuss them? Your main argument, which you've evidently borrowed secondhand, has already been answered in Christian apologetics for the past two millenia. You're contributing nothing.

>>659421

>>659419

>for no reason

But that's just like, y'know, like, your opinion, man.

>>659416

See 2 Kings 2:23-25

>>659417

>Have you even read the Gospels?

Yes jesus was so benevolent he gave up his life to the romans and asked god to forgive them, unlike you who judge people and treat them like puppets

>You send yourself to Hell by refusing God's mercy

You can accept god's mercy AND practice sodomy for example

>1) not concrete

It is and you are a christian because your mother likely was one

>They worship a false God

Well they say YOU worship a false god, how do you prove you are right? You can't really do it with a book, they have their own book too

>Because equality is fundamentally impossible and irrelevant

I can have an equal relationship with a rich person while being poor, you can't have an equal relationship with god while being his slave

>>659423

It was sarcasm. Re-read my post.

>>659421

The word refers to youths, not necessarily children. The youths were mocking a prophet of God and the bears attacked them as a demonstration of God's power. You'd think the lesson to be learned here is to not insult God, but atheists take the opposite meaning somehow.

>>659363

Wow, that is a long running channel

>>659422

Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam

>>659424

>Yes jesus was so benevolent he gave up his life to the romans and asked god to forgive them, unlike you who judge people and treat them like puppets

He gave His life for everyone.

I don't judge anyone, I simply relay what the Bible and the Church believe, whihc in themselves were revealed by God. Can you point out where I judge an treat others like puppets?

>You can accept god's mercy AND practice sodomy for example

No, you can't. It is one or the other.

>It is and you are a christian because your mother likely was one

I'm a convert actually, from an atheist background, in an atheist country. Just like you were probably raised in a Christan household but lost interest. It's not important where you're from, but where you are.

>Well they say YOU worship a false god, how do you prove you are right? You can't really do it with a book, they have their own book too

Because they claim that their book is the successor to the New Testament, but it directly and openly conflicts with it in many areas, whereas the NT and the OT concord perfectly. That's just for a start.

>I can have an equal relationship with a rich person while being poor, you can't have an equal relationship with god while being his slave

I don't care. Slavery to the Most High is a blessing.

>>659432

You aren't a Muslim.

>>659435

What if I was

>>659434

>Can you point out where I judge an treat others like puppets?

You said people must become like soldiers(of god?) and obey or either be executed

>It is one or the other

So HE sends you to hell

>I'm a convert actually, from an atheist background, in an atheist country

Very unlikely, your family was influenced by christianity if not your parents at least your grandparents or your relatives

>but it directly and openly conflicts with it in many areas

Also the New Testament directly and openly conflicts with the Old Testament in many areas, that's why jews still exist for example

>Slavery to the Most High is a blessing

Your it's like a fetish

>>659443

>What if I was

Then you'd be changing your original hypothetical situation in which you stated that a Muslim would say the same thing about Hell to YOU (an atheist), after the fact, all in order to conceal your lack of knowledge of both Christianity and Islam, demonstrating that you're arguing in bad faith and have already murdered the spirit of truth within yourself.

>>659443

>You said people must become like soldiers(of god?) and obey or either be executed

That's neither judgmental of treating others like puppets.

You can join the army and serve or be punished. Better yet you can be a member of society and follow the laws, or be punished. It is the same thing. Is this unjust to you?

>So HE sends you to hell

No, you do. Actions have consequences. Is this too difficult to grasp?

>Very unlikely, your family was influenced by christianity if not your parents at least your grandparents or your relatives

They were """influenced""" in the same way that modern secular humanism has it's """influence""" from Christianity. Which is to say, it is so removed from the source material that it is anodyne and hardly recognisable. I was not raised in a Christian household, or a Christian family.

>Also the New Testament directly and openly conflicts with the Old Testament in many areas, that's why jews still exist for example

If it contradicted at all, it would not exist, Christ would be a liar. That would indeed be monstrous.

Jews exist because they recreated their religion. Judaism now is totally different from what the Jews of Jusus' time believed.

>Your it's like a fetish

No, it's a commitment. Freedom can go to hell if it just leads me to sin.

>>659326

Use Hooktube faggot.

>>659466

"Apostasy" does not refer to beliefs, but rather political loyalties in this context.

In an Islamic political system, like a Caliphate, the Muslims give bay'ah (oath of allegiance) to an Imam (leader). This is considered to be a pledge that you cannot go back on. So even if you lose faith in Islam, stop praying, stop believing in God Quran etc, you cannot turn against the Imam - doing so is considered to be treason.

As far as individual beliefs are concerned, it is between the individual and God - the state has no right to intervene.

For Qur'anic ayahs on apostasy as far as beliefs are concerned, see the following: 2.109, 2.143, 2.217, 3.72, 3.77, 3.80, 3.82, 3.86, 3.90, 3.100, 3.106, 3.144, 3.149, 3.177, 3.187, 4.81, 4.137, 5.54, 49.15, 63.3. Not once is death penalty, let alone any kind of penalty, mentioned.

Freedom of religion in Quran - 2.156 (“no compulsion in religion”) 18.29 (“this is the truth from your Lord; so whoever wills, let him believe, and whoever wills, let him disbelieve”) 88.21-22 (“so remind, you are only a reminder; you are not a controller over them”)

For a good explanation, see the following video by Tareq al-Suwaidan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhMkirsaVZE

And Allah knows best.

>>659481

Lol freedom of religion what a stupid newMuslim you are. Those verses are ABROGATED as per surah 9 which is the second last sura according to revelation.

And do you even know what the context of no compulsion in religion is? I bet you don't. It was jews who were saying that their children should stay jews and the verse (Mohammed) said you cannot compel them not to stay jews and not convert! NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! Man muzzies just love to lie.

It was reported that the Ansar were the reason behind revealing this Ayah, although its indication is general in meaning. Ibn Jarir recorded that Ibn `Abbas said ﴿that before Islam﴾, "When (an Ansar) woman would not bear children who would live, she would vow that if she gives birth to a child who remains alive, she would raise him as a Jew. When Banu An-Nadir (the Jewish tribe) were evacuated ﴿from Al-Madinah﴾, some of the children of the Ansar were being raised among them, and the Ansar said, `We will not abandon our children.' Allah revealed,

﴿ ﴾

(There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.)''

Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i also recorded this Hadith. As for the Hadith that Imam Ahmad recorded, in which Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said to a man,

«»

: :

« »

("Embrace Islam. The man said, "I dislike it. The Prophet said, "Even if you dislike it.'')

Also you're using a typical nonsense excuse saying that it's not in the Quran. Hadith can even abrogate Quran. Why don't sunni's practice mutah? Mutah is in the quran, you guys just claim that mohammed (when he was dying) abrogated mutah, otherwise you'd be renting out your sisters and mothers and daughters for sex (Mashallah). It's the consensus of many scholars that in an islamic country the penalty for apostasy is death.

https://islamqa.info/en/14231

https://islamqa.info/en/20327

Christ is Lord, Islam is false (and disgusting)

>>659330

Fpbs

>>659489

Tbh, I didn't expect a trinitarian like you to understand concepts like political or theological loyalty, nor do I expect you to actually read the Quran.

When you decide to act like an adult we can talk, until than, I bid you adieu.

>>659508

>I bid you adieu

Is this the Saracen version of tipping a fedora?

>>659338

>So you want to be slaves of a cruel god and

This is why 'atheists' should be called "antitheists". You people wouldn't trust God, even if you saw half of His glory.

>>659481

Really

Sunan an-Nasai, Number 307:

It was narrated from Anas bin Malik that some Bedouins from Urainah came to the Prophet and became Muslim, but the climate of Al-Madinah did not suit them; their skin turned yellow and their stomachs became swollen. The Messenger of Allah sent them to some pregnant camels of his and told them to drink their milk and urine until they recovered. Then they killed the camel-herder and drove the camels away. The Messenger of Allah sent people after them, and they were brought back. Their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were smoldered with burning nails. The Commander of the Believers, Abdul-Malik, said to Anas—when he was narrating this Hadith to him—“(Were they being punished) for Kufr or for a sin?” He said: “For Kufr.”

3 things of note

First, Muhammad’s solution to sickness was drinking camel urine

Second, Islam’s sources claim that the Muslims who drank the camel urine left Islam, scattered Muhammad’s camels, and killed his camel-herder—after the camel urine cured them. But why would they leave Islam and become enraged after following Muhammad’s advice and being cured? Isn’t it far more likely that they drank the camel urine, became even more sick, realized that Muhammad was a false prophet who made them drink camel urine, and scattered Muhammad’s camels in a fit of rage?

Third, Muhammad had his followers chop the men’s hands and feet off and burn out their eyes with hot nails. The men were then left in the heat to die and were refused water. One of them was biting at the ground out of thirst. Muslims often claim that these apostates were tortured, mutilated, and left to die because of what they had done to Muhammad’s camel-herder. But Anas, who narrated the story, was specifically asked whether they were tortured, mutilated, and left to die because of some sin, or because of kufr (their return to unbelief). Anas said that they were tortured, mutilated, and left to die for kufr—unbelief.

Welcome to Islam—the religion that tells you to drink camel urine, then, when you get even sicker and decide to leave, chops off your hands and your feet, burns out your eyes with hot nails, and leaves you to die as you bite the ground from thirst.

>>659511

kek

>>659326

By the way, the Atheist only escapes hell by never having known any better. However truly unrepentant braying asses like Richard Dawkins, who even when he was a Christian was evidently a very bad one, are the kind of people who do not attain heaven in the hereafter nor the holy spirit in this life.

>>659410

>mock a prophet

>get smote

Don't see the problem here

>>659434

God bless, anon

>>659387

He was certainly an Atheist

>I'm an atheist

>I don't believe in God or morals or virtue

>If I did, though, God would like me better than you

>because to live as I do is more moral and virtuous

>even though morals and virtue don't exist

>BUT IF THEY DID, THOUGH

>just saying

>now laud me for my greatness and superior morality

>which doesn't exist

>while I scold you for believing in morals and virtues that don't exist

>because if they did exist, it wouldn't be moral or virtuous to believe in them

<>1. There is proof of God.

Not only is existence itself – with all of its wonder and intricacies, as well as the fact that there is something rather than nothing – proof, but there is mathematics, beauty, and morality for rational evidence and miracles, forensics, and historicity for empirical evidence.

<>2. If you seek, you shall find.

A truly intellectually honest person who applies the same level of skepticism to Christianity as he applies to all other aspects of his life will have no trouble accepting the very small leap of faith required to bridge the gap between evidence and belief. But you must, in fact, be seeking. Answers don't just fall into your lap. If you are only intentionally looking for errors in Christian dogma, you will be ready to accept any incorrect picture of Christianity that is given to you. Because you aren't looking for truth – you are looking to justify your disbelief. Instead of looking for contradictions or errors, you should, once you have found those supposed contradictions and errors, look for how those topics are addressed by the Church. Believe me, you aren't clever or original. The Bible has existed for about 2000 years and has been studied vigorously by millions of people – you really think this modern atheist crowd has finally constructed arguments or found mistakes in our theology that no one else has? No; every contention you have has already been addressed. To not believe in God, at this point in human history, is either willful ignorance or rejection of the truth. There is no excuse.

One reason why Christians won't argue with atheists is because we recognize your arguments are against a strawman of Christianity. And that's the truth: I seldom (1 in a 1000 times) encounter a contention against actual, legitimate Christianity. The other 999 are attacks against some false version of Christianity that atheists have created in their own minds for the sole purpose of being ridiculous and easy to dismantle.

<>3. If you do not believe in God, you have rejected Him.

God is Truth. To reject the truth is to reject God Himself. If you acknowledge some of His morals, but dismiss others (for instance, admitting He got the thievery and murder right, but is wrong about homosexuality), you don't accept God, you accept yourself. You are exulting your own morality – ego and pride writ large. If you love Him, you keep His commands, but He's perfect and you're not. None of us are. That means that nothing you could ever do would be good enough for Him. If you spent every single moment of your life doing good works and giving all glory to God, you would, in the end, not have given God a single thing that He did not already have in His perfection. That's why a "good" atheist cannot be saved – you cannot earn your way into salvation by your own will. Salvation comes only through the faith and love of God, and His grace is accepted by your disposition to do good works.

<>4. If you reject God, you reject Goodness itself.

God is good. God is the source of all creation, goodness, love, pleasure, joy, and virtue. If you reject God, you reject all of the goodness that flows forth from Him.

<>5. If you have rejected all that is good and pleasurable, all that remains for you is torment.

Hell is not the result of torture and punishment, it is the result of you having freely elected to eschew the only source of pleasure and comfort. Your soul is eternal by virtue of your likeness with God, and an eternal being that is eternally separated from Bliss has no alternative but to be subject to abject Suffering forever.

Meh, the only decent and somewhat funny darkmatter vid is that "redneck vs terrorist" one.

Rest are cringy /r/atheism-tier tired memes.

Also, i hate how he does that squiggly mouth line, and shitty voice editing, to save animation work.

>>660071

>>660095

Slight rephrasing from something I read on MPC.

Atheists have an incredibly inconsistent and stupid relationship with God, alternatively denying his existence and hiding under his skirt. When cuckservative or effeminate christians try to engage the public in any way, they ridicule them as superstitious and backward; whenever christians are on the offensive against muslims, degenerate homosexuals, illegal immigrants etc. they claim that Jesus said you should just be nice and that they're hypocritical.

"Christianity is backward and stupid, and I know nothing about christian theology, but I feel comfortable dictating Christ's will to people who do, and also I'm a better christian than them," is the standard dissonant mindset of the liberal atheist.

>>659326

Hooktube this aweful shit next time.

I think essentially what is asking is how is it not cruel that god forces people into hell to be tormented more viciously than any human has ever tortured another for all eternity without forgiveness or chance at redemption simply for not believing he was real and why would god create us knowing we were going to be tortured by him for offending him when he could have just made us not offensive to him.

>>660660

>how is it not cruel that god forces people into hell to be tormented more viciously than any human has ever tortured another for all eternity without forgiveness or chance at redemption simply for not believing he was real

It's not about that. The torture is heaped upon the nonbeliever and the sinner by themselves. As repeatedly referenced ITT, the only person who condemns your soul to Hell is yourself. Hell isn't like some sterotypical, cartoonish pit with little red demons and their pitchforks where you suffer "ironic punishments", it is a state separated from God where you burn with your regret for not having known Him in life.

When we say a "lack of belief in God" or "not believing He is real" in this thread (and generally to people in western or even just global society) we're not talking about some incidental disinclination to faith (as though such a thing exists in the first place), we are talking about those who have heard the Gospel but reject it. We are talking about all of those who reject it, from those who actively militate against the Faith, to the lukewarm, spiritually lazy "I mean I would really like to believe in God, but I just can't" lot.

For such ignorance and a refusal to learn, it's not cruelty, it's justice.

>why would god create us knowing we were going to be tortured by him for offending him when he could have just made us not offensive to him.

This is such a loaded bullshit question and you know it. We weren't created "knowing" that we would sin. We were originally created with free will (which we have inherited) but like brats we disobeyed and followed our own desires rather than God's.

We actually were created inoffensive to Him. This is something that so many atheists overlook when they ask "Well why didn't God just make uspperfect?" He DID. Adam and Eve were perfect but even these fell away because their desires were more important than God's, in their own eyes.

>>660672

he knew what we were going to do before we did it cause he created us. he made us perfect then he allowed us to just fall apart. he created a world knowing what would happen because he is all knowing. how can we have free will if he created us knowing what were going to do and being unable to do anything else. and the other thing seems as simple as "you read and heard the story of jesus do you really believe it is true" if you say no you are punished, even if you really wanted their to be a heaven and a god but this statement that jesus was born of a virgin to save us from sin, if you don't believe it you die and go tell hell where you are miserable forever even thou it is simply the rejection of a fact. imagine if the bible were mistranslated or there was a different gospel or someone got a hold of the bible and changed some of the language and requirements then everybody would go to hell just cause they didn't accept this fact cause a different thing was proposed to them as the only way to get into heaven. why does it have to depend on the acceptance of a historical event? why can't it come from the spirit, why can't god just show us why do we need to read a book and believe what it says or listen to a man and believe what he says.

>>660690

>muh foreknowledge, muh free will

Lrn2 Middle Knowledge & Molinism.

>and the other thing seems as simple as "you read and heard the story of jesus do you really believe it is true" if you say no you are punished, even if you really wanted their to be a heaven and a god but this statement that jesus was born of a virgin to save us from sin, if you don't believe it you die and go tell hell where you are miserable forever even thou it is simply the rejection of a fact.

You are right, it is the wilful rejection of a fact, that's why you are punished for it. What reason do you have for believing that this shouldn't be the case?

If you wanted to believe it, you would. If you want to believe it, pray for it, and the Spirit will do the rest.

>imagine if the bible were mistranslated or there was a different gospel or someone got a hold of the bible and changed some of the language and requirements then everybody would go to hell just cause they didn't accept this fact cause a different thing was proposed to them as the only way to get into heaven.

I won't imagine it because it is impossible, and my faith disallows the possibility of it. You are now just throwing up pointless "but what ifs" to filibuster your faith. How about for talking's sake we turn this on its head and assume, for your sake, that the Bible is infallible and that every word of it is true. What are you going to do about it?

>why does it have to depend on the acceptance of a historical event?

Because it happened historically. Everything in Scripture happened historically. I don't know what point you are trying to make here.

>why can't it come from the spirit, why can't god just show us why do we need to read a book and believe what it says or listen to a man and believe what he says.

He did show us. He took on flesh and became man, suffered, died and rose again for us. What more do you want?

We need to "read a book" because it is he record of what happened when Christ walked the Earth, and also contains the prophecy of His Coming. We need to "Listen to a man" (presumably you mean the clergy) because this man is trusted by the Church with preserving and passing down this tradition to us and elucidating on it, and also for delivering the sacraments to us.

This reads as nothing other than your admission that you are lazy, unprincipled and you want someone else to do the work for you. I mean you are the walking example of someone who wants to be spoonfed everything. Yours seems like the kind of mind that states it would believe in God if He appeared to Him specifically, but then if such a vision were to happen, it "wouldn't count" because it was a dream or a hallucination, like the Pharisees who met Christ and still asked him for signs. You just cannot, or will not, be satisfied. You just keep making excuses for yourself and your behaviour and do not want to learn, so I don't even know why you are bothering with these questions. You don't deserve a sign. Yours is the sign of Jonah.

And yes, it does come from the Spirit, as I said, but you must want to believe in it first.

>>659339

But Democrats are the real racists.

I would rather deal with people who tell me they hate me for my race every time over people who think I’m just as inferior but parade treat me like a pet and chastise me when I’m not one of their good little POC. A hick might call me a dumb tigger, but he’s not going to play the long con in subverting the improvement of my culture and silencing opposing voices within my race. I can work around an over racist way easier than the black community’s equivalent to cryptojews

>>660734

>molinism

>god knows all the possibilities and also knows which one is going to happen but the other possibilities are still possible because…

Middle Knowledge, free will etc.

>mistranslated

>the bible is infallible you just have to believe that, it doesn't matter which cannon, from which culture, in what language, in what translation just assume that this very specific bible among hundreds of others is true

There is only a single Canon, in any culture, language or translation. You fundamentally cannot be a Christian of any stripe if you do not accept the absolute veracity of Scripture.

That Protestants and Jews have fewer, and Ethiopians have more (and Muslims JWs and Mormons make up their own Bibles), doesn't change the fact that the 46 OT and 27 NT books are Canon, and have been since the very beginning.

>dependence

>it happened because it happened in the scriptures which you assume are true because i told you so a second ago

As opposed to what, they are lying "just 'cause lolol"?

>that he did show us

>he did show some people thousands of years ago, why isn't that good enough for you to accept this as an absolute historical fact.

Well, why isn't it good enough?

>I really want to join this faith and just plain don't understand

I'm a convert, and the process if long and difficult, but you must persist. Never give up. It will sink in. At the end of the day, it's not an exam. The Lord isn't looking for scholars, just saints.

>also god is omnipotent wouldn't he have the power to show himself to me in a way that would make certain it wasn't a dream.

He was incarnate on earth for 33 years, and we have eyewitness testimony of this in the Gospels. Try there, and then the rest of Scripture too. Meditate upon it and meet the Lord there. Also begome apostolic and you can meet Christ every time you enter a church.

>every time i ask any sort of question on here all I ever get is endlessly mocked and shunned for "not getting it" or "not trying hard enough" or "if you were truly trying to understand you already would, you are just evil and trying to justify your own terribleness" i thought this was the place to go to ask questions and get help?

It can be if you are looking for help (which I accept now that you are), but when you post things like "But what if Scripture is wrong?" and "Why can't God just do everything for me?" it throws up a red flag for many of us.

Please understand though that this is also the place to go for low ball concern trolling atheists like the OP who come with shitty expectations and refuse to take on board what is said in response. So, please, if you feel that the wording in my post was harsh, forgive me and accept my apologies.

That said, if you are genuine, one of the best things is to arrange a meeting to speak to a priest. That is the best advice anyone here could really give you.

>I hate this world and want truly nothing more than to die and go to a better place or even to not be anymore.

No, you don't. You are frustrated and looking for answers. Keep knocking and you will get your answer.

I will pray for you that you find your way and your peace.

>>659326

Euphoric ayytheist putting himself in the place of God, what is this prelest?

>>660660

>>659338

Cruel? If anything, he's being pretty damn generous. If you refuse to abide by his doctrine for a lifetime, then what makes you think that you'll tolerate it for an eternity in his kingdom?

You're young, but you'll realize that the anti-theism cannot replace the love that God has for you. His doctrine isn't meant to "prevent fun", it's meant to filter the garbage that enables bad people to control you.

Over time, you'll realize that you're independent from following God's doctrine.

Job 34:10-11

Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.

For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

>strawgod arguments

Every time

>>661666

how do you know that i am young and how do you know i am an anti-theist. i am simply stating what is in the video. also the slaves to a cruel god thing was not me posting that was somebody else who chimed in.

>>659416

>>659410

>>659419

>>659421

https://youtu.be/CrbaPi5J0Eg

Mfw

>>659424

You actually cannot be God's equal. I don't know how to explain obvious shit to you.