/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Just don't go Mainline Protestant.

>>655940

I know what I must do then, sensei.

>>655938

Ask yourself this one question: Why do I want to become Christian ?

Don't let yourself get blinded by ideology or aesthetics. I'm Catholic, I of course tell you to become Catholic (because we're the actual one true Church - but orthos, too, have Apostolic Succession and their political shenanigans didn't change that fact) - but ultimately it's a matter of your own conscience. If you find the orthodox aesthetics appealing (we have that too in the Greek Catholic churches btw), then go to Divine Liturgy, practice the faith, pray daily and align your heart to Christ. In your prayer ask God to guide you the way and grant you the Grace of having deep faith that you're able to root deeply in your heart.

The divorce stuff is a tricky one, because .. the orthodox "way" of interpreting Scripture/guiding their flock(s) is oikonomia, which is that of a very pastoral exegesis, that tries to suit the needs of the people "irl" and not just theoretically so to speak. Now, as I said, I'm not orthodox so I have no thorough knowledge on that, but .. you know … no memes, sorry.

Matter of fact, if you have a problem with the divorce stuff etc., then become Eastern Catholic. But you need to make that out between you and God, not what people on the internet tell you with their shitty memes or anything.

And if you already accepted that the "2" apostolic churches (i.e., Catholic and Eastern orthodox) are the way for their ultimate origin in Christ, then decide between them, don't stray to the protestants.

Protip: Go to (a) priest(s), mainly an orthodox one (although a Catholic perspective can't hurt), and talk to him about your concerns.

the highest authority in the Orthodox Church is the bishop, as each bishop represents a full and complete church of Christ; if your local bishop isn't teaching heretical beliefs, there is nothing to be concerned over

further, you should base your beliefs on faith, not the other way around

also, americans are retarded and don't know what orthodox means

>>655938

Stay in your denom and stop making larp threads for a start

>>655947

What ?

>>655946

What do you mean the bible seems crystal clear on it's opinion about divorce am I missing a part where it says get divorced if you feel like it or something that only the orthodox know about?

>>655952

also this

Verses proving salvation to anyone that believes and not of works.

https://youtu.be/BXMA4xOS5BY

John

1:12

3:15-16/18/36

4:14(John 6:35)

5:24

6:28-29/35/38-40/44-45/47

7:38-39

8:24

10:27-29

11:25-27/40

12:46

14:1-3

16:27

20:31

Matthew

5:19

7:21-23(John 6:38-40)

8:10-13

9:2

12:37

21:31-32

Mark

1:15

2:5

10:24-25

16:16

Luke

3:3(Acts 19:4)

5:20

7:48-50

8:12

18:10-14/42

19:42

23:40-43

Acts

2:21

3:19

10:43

11:16-17

13:38-39/48

15:7-9

16:30-31

19:4(Luke 3:3)

26:18

Romans

1:16-17

3:20/22/24-28/30

4:2-14/16/24

5:1/15-18

6:14/23

8:31-33

9:30-33

10:3-4/9-10/13

11:6

1 Corinthians

1:14/17/21

3:14-15

15:1-2

2 Corinthians

4:13-14

1 Thessalonians

4:14

2 Thessalonians

1:10

2:12

Ephesians

1:13-14

2:8-9

4:7

Galatians

2:16/21

3:6-11/14/21-22/24/26

5:3-6

Philippians

3:3/9

Titus

3:5

1 Timothy

1:16

2 Timothy

1:9

3:15

Hebrews

4:3

10:38-39

11:7

1 Peter

1:3-5/8-9

2:6

3:21(Colossians 2:12)

1 John

4:2-3/15

5:1/4-5/10-11/13

Revelation

2:11

3:5

21:7

I was raised protestant and it's really unappealing to me. The whole basis of do what ever you want but as long as you're saved you'll be fine thing really turned me off Christianity for a while. That's why orthodoxy with it's more you actually have to practice your religion attitude attracted me.

>>655938

This.→ >>655947

Stop shitposting this question in multiple threads. If you are choosing a church based on divorce alone, then you have no theological convictions, and are probably some control freak incel.

>>655949

>am I missing a part where it says get divorced if you feel like it or something that only the orthodox know about?

The divorce thing predates the Schism, and was a way in which we dealt with these issues.

Here's an eastern catholic site, to convince you

https://east2west.org/faq/ecumenism/

>>655957

I listed like 3 reasons I was skeptical. I don't think incels have to worry about divorce since they are involuntary celibate? Why are you so angry by the way?

There are no denoms in Christ: Look I choose to be the foot of the Christ. I choose to be the right thumb.

There is a quote somewhere in the NT.

>>655963

um I thought we were suppose to go to church? What are you getting at?

>>655938

I've thought about this a while now and come to the conclusion that the Catholic way of rigidity in the face of change won't work out in the end. We are pretty well exiled in Babylon so now is a time of re-evaluation.

>>655938

That's three times, not 4, and the 2nd and 3rd marriages are allowed only under strict conditions, with the 3rd remarriage harder to obtain than the 2nd. 4th marriage is forbidden. So no, there's no frivorce in Orthodoxy. The reason for the multiple marriage allowement is due to the application of economia in order to avoid permanently alienating people from partaking in the Eucharist and thus the church:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/divorce-and-remarriage-in-the-orthodox-church.2875541/

http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/liturgics/athenagoras_remarriage.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_(religion)

The Maccabees waged war even on the Sabbath back in the Old Testament in order to prevent the Judeans, from whom Jesus would eventually come, from being literally wiped off the face of the Earth by their enemies at the time. ("The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.")

Even after going on epic rants against the re-Judiazation of the New Covenant and how it spit on Jesus' sacrifice in his epistles, (even going so far to say that if you get a circumcision, you might as well cut the whole thing off) St. Paul the Apostle still circumcised Timothy to placate Jewish Christians, because the salvation of Timothy's soul was more important than a Pharisaical exact following of the covenant.

It is in the spirit that remarriages are allowed. The Catholic church itself at times, also utilizes annulment to deal with human weakness in problematic marriages.

Though we're probably going to have to agree to disagree, quite frankly, in terms of intentions and results, I think that the differences between non-abortive contraception (i.e. no morning after pills, etc. allowed in Orthodoxy) and Natural Family Planning as recommended by the Catholic Church, are petty.

As for Liberalization… I can only speak for my church, but I fail to see it. My congregation consists of mostly people who are politically right-wing, with a few people who are moderate/center-left at the most. (i.e no SJW shenanigans.)

>>655938

>the same average political liberalism as Jews. I was actually pretty serous and planning to convert to orthodoxy until I found out they weren't actually traditional.

Are these bait threads?

>>655981

>Orthodox countries have the highest rates of abortion

>Orthodox churches allow divorce despite Christ saying not to

>Traditional

Become Catholic :)

>>655962

> Why are you so angry by the way?

Bringing up the issue of multiple denoms expressly contradicts biblical Jesus request that his church be one (1) and undivided, thus in bringing this up in discussion, OP, you are thereby inherently drawing attention to the underlying contradictions in certain "Christian's" theologies…

tl;dr - ortho/prots gonna rage

>>655938

Go and see.

Intellectual converts who do it for the theory are often disillusioned by what they see in practice.

The Church you will attend, the people you will be in company of, their example, the spiritual guides (pastor, priests) of you church. These are the things that will impact directly your spiritual life.

>>655985

Abortion has nothing to do with the Church itself. Sadly we live in a secular age where church and state have been separated. Divorce is condemned but remarriage is given under extreme circumcstances like adultery or trying to kill your spouse. You can't judge what is "traditional" and what isn't relative to Catholic doctrine.

http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/liturgics/athenagoras_remarriage.html

Marriages after the first one are concessions and aren't weighted as significantly or as meaningfully as the first one. The rites/vows are different. They're more "pragmatic" marriages in the sense that they're allowed so you can have help raising a family and have a companion.

This is anecdotal but at my church most people who have divorced or lost their spouse have never remarried.

My advice to you is to go to an Orthodox church and see how you feel when you're there. Don't make a decision based on "what church agrees with me more", but how your spirit feels.

>>656010

Ok. I will take your advice and put my skepticism aside.

>>655981

Look at photo? Orthodox are one of the most liberal sects of Christianity, far more liberal than protestants and Catholics. Why are you calling it bait?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/02/23/u-s-religious-groups-and-their-political-leanings/

>>656107

Pew research did a poll. Poll found orthodox lean more democrat than most other christian groups. What part of this is not true?

>>656114

Of the Anglican and Episcopal Churches: the former has transgender renaming ceremonies, the latter allows LGBT marriage. The Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and The Presbyterian Church (USA), all ordain LGBT clergy. A Methodist Church in Chicago even took part in Glitter Ash Wednesday.

Not only does none of the above go on, or is endorsed, in Orthodoxy, but when I do an image search like "Orthodox Christian LGBT" I see mostly either LGBT groups protesting outside of Orthodox Churches, or LGBT people being attacked in some fashion. Do a general search with the same phrase, and outside of some weird heretical outliers, the resultant links promote an anti-LGBT stance.

I go to this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_affirming_LGBT

and once again, any LGBT positive "Orthodox" Churches are weird heretical outliers.

Yet according to the Pew Research Poll you linked, statistically speaking, Orthodoxy is more Liberal than the hyper-Liberal churches I just mentioned.

Something's not adding up here. Fellow Orthobros, can you confirm some sort of Liberal creep/shift that is taking place that I am unaware of?

>>656126

he is only citing US polling data, also democrats are over sampled by an average of 10% in polls, and the fact that democrats are statistically more likely to answer polls (as are old people) makes the pew poll flaming garbage.

>>656127

Dumb point. this is in comparison to other denominations. It would skew everything and orthodox wouldn't be in last place for conservatism.

Polls are always biased trash one way or another. How hasn't everyone figured this out yet?

>Hillary has 98% chance to win!

>>656143

Again they are more liberal relative to Lutherans and Catholics. The poll would skew all denominations if they were only polling liberals.

>>656144

Oh! Now I see that I should make decisions that could effect my immortal soul be influenced by the polling of God-hating modern secularists!

>>656143

What if she did have a 98% chance to win, and she's just really unlucky?

If I had to guess, it probably ties to

1. The fact many of the orthodox countries were once socialist, which could influence some of the followers who come from those areas and

2. A large portion of the American orthodox population are immigrants, which could tie in to voting for Democrats.

Meanwhile, you have a majority of Catholics in America now being from the Latin American countries and overwhelmingly voting for the party that supports abortion, while modernizing their church.

>>655938

the views of people does not reflect the views of the church, if you want a church which everyone conforms to the views of their church you'd have to join a radical sect, for example SSPX, Sedevacantism, True/Genuine Orthodoxy, Andersonism (although they're even having trouble with modalists atm.), Etc, etc.

The purification will come once Christianity or a particular denomination is persecuted again.

>>655938

>choosing religion based on politics instead of eternal truth

>>664716

Because politics is one of the great religions of America, right next to handegg and teevee.

>>664711

old story about a couple wanting a divorce: they talked to the priest, and he reluctantly agreed. he brought them in front of the altar, and began to pray. then he took the large from off the altar, raised it above his head, and swung it down very hard on the mans head. then he went to the woman and did he same. he continued hitting them for some time, then the man, in pain, finally said: "how much longer will this take father?!" and he replied: "as long as it takes". so yeah, divorces are not a common thing, especially with real priests.

>>664739

this. america's "christianity" will be cleaned up quickly after the persecutions begin. maybe only a few prot denoms will remain.

>>664711

Why has anyone even posted after this post?

>>656114

But that must be nominal orthodox people, just like some countries are 99% Catholic because everyone is baptized as a baby. I doubt the actual church goers are as liberal.

>>664711

>But if we assess that their faith is weak so that to excommunicate them means they will be lost forever

>but it is preferable to do this in order to avoid the more serious sin of murder

Doesn't this lead to a slippery slope? i.e. we accept LGBT because otherwise we will lose them

Is that a Georgian wedding in the pic btw

>>665209

>Doesn't this lead to a slippery slope?

Fortunately, we have the Holy Spirit to guide us. Yes, we have the Holy Spirit.

> i.e. we accept LGBT because otherwise we will lose them.

In the second marriage one betrays the promices he has given to his previous wife or husband but there is no adultery. In LGBT or even in "normal" adultery one reaffirms every day that he prefers the sin over the Holy Spirit, which is a mortal sin. ("He who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit" 1 Cor. 6:18)

>Is that a Georgian wedding in the pic btw

Yes.

>>655938

>I was actually pretty serous and planning to convert to orthodoxy until I found out they weren't actually traditional.

"I care more for how I will be percieved by others based on others in my denomination, rather than worshipping God correctly"

The mark of an American Larper

In the US, Orthodox are the wealthiest and most educated religious group, and when you combine that with the fact that the vast majority of them are nominal cradledoxes you have a recipe for liberalism.

Anyway, you evaluate denominations like an American boomer at a buffet. You're supposed to conform yourself to the Church, it doesn't conform to you. Now, you might manage to find some fringe sect that meets all of your criteria, but is the true Church a sect ensconced in a strip mall in Tempe, AZ, a sect that is subject to endless fracturing? That's what happens to all of them because they're made up of people just like you who have to have it all their way.

>>656096

>in USA

We know immigrants and non-whites lean heavily Democrat. I'd wager orthodox churches of USA are largely product of immigration from MEA region.

>>655938

Church of Christ is the most similar to the early church and only uses the Bible for authority

>>666683

>most similar to the early church

>only uses the Bible for authority

You do realize the early church didn't have a bible, right?

>>666683

Why are you replying to yourself in your own thread? Stop mining for (you)s.

>>666684

The early church is described in acts you tard

>>666685

What?

>>666692

>described

The first texts weren't written until decades after the crucifixion, and even then the first actual canonized bible texts weren't written until hundreds of years after that.

What were the early christians doing before that, angry CoC guy?

>>666697

They were baptizing believers by immersion for the remission of sins, for one

>>666697

>The first texts weren't written until decades after the crucifixion

But the word of God existed.

Acts 19:20

So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

>>655938

>>655944

>catholic false flagging

You're not gonna save your pedo cabal like this fam.

>>664711

I am always amazed at how much patience my Orthodox brothers have with trolls.