If God hadn't become man yet, how were Adam and Eve able to participate in the grace of God and be immortal? Since grace is participation in the divine energies, how were Adam and Eve in a state of grace before the fall? Could grace not only come through t

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Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 03:41:59 b9a9cd No.655697

If God hadn't become man yet, how were Adam and Eve able to participate in the grace of God and be immortal? Since grace is participation in the divine energies, how were Adam and Eve in a state of grace before the fall? Could grace not only come through the incarnation? Sorry I'm just a little confused, can anyone help me out here?

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 03:50:06 e9527b No.655699

Death entered the world through sin, so any question of how man could be eternal prior to sin doesn't make any sense, and after you factor that it this just becomes the same old question of how did pre-incarnation saints experience grace.

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 04:00:32 b9a9cd No.655701

>>655699

Could it be said that perhaps the grace of the cross was the "original grace"? These things are by no means bound by time but they transcend it. It would actually in a way make salvation history more beautiful if this is the case.

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 04:44:11 d7b267 No.655711

>>655697

>is there something God isn't able to do ?

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 05:30:23 55d9d0 No.655723

Don't ask those kind of questions. I say this as a former occultist.

Also Begome Ordodox

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 05:39:51 b9a9cd No.655724

>>655723

I am Orthodox.

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 06:38:31 55d9d0 No.655744

>>655724

Not yet asking them questions

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 10:04:34 f8923f No.655830

Weren't Adam and Eve a lot more like angels compared to us? Makes sense to me that they had some type of inherent grace that they seperated themselves from when they fell. It's a mystery in the end I imagine and like another anon said ITT you should be careful about the questions you ask. Talk to your priest about it if it's really troubling you.

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 10:54:28 4281c1 No.655841

>>655830

>Weren't Adam and Eve a lot more like angels compared to us?

Please. Stop. This.

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 13:13:32 49735e No.655891

Grace is gift of God and He can give it to anyone who he pleases. Angels have grace and yet Christ do not assumed they nature.

But Adam had "less" Grace than we do now.

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 14:13:10 21c3ce No.655916

>>655841

The question wasn't wholly rhetrical tbh. I'm still a babe in Christ in many ways so I was just saying that it seems that way to me.

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 14:57:16 c546c4 No.655926

Why would humans need grace if they had not yet sinned?

Christanon 06/01/18 (Fri) 15:17:53 49735e No.655937

>>655926

Without grace man of himself can know truth.

But without grace men do nothing good when they either think or wish or love or act.

Without grace man, by his natural powers alone, can love God more than himself and above all things.

But without grace man cannot fulfil the Divine commandments.

Man cannot merit everlasting life without grace

Man cannot prepare himself for grace without the help of grace.

Man cannot rise from sin without the help of grace.

Without grace man cannot avoid sin.

Whoever has already obtained grace, cannot by himself and without further help of grace, do good and avoid sin.

Man, even when possessed of grace, needs perseverance to be given to him by God.

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2109.htm