Modern literature and (((deconstruction)))

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File: a9d9a3018b3dab6⋯.jpg (39.28 KB, 323x499, 323:499, lord of the.jpg)

File: 548b0ebdadad1ba⋯.jpg (12.28 KB, 183x275, 183:275, chronicles.jpg)

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Modern literature and (((deconstruction))) Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 05:17:11 98736d No.654454

I hate modern literature, its literally impossible to find a wholesome read that has clearly christian morals. Everything today has to be edgy and every trope deconstructed, as in, good is actually evil and evil actually good, moral relativism, the Devil and his fallen angels are good, God and his angels are evil and similar bullcrap.

Why can't we have any setting where God and His angels are good, and the Devil and his Fallen are evil beings who want to damn people to Hell?

I just want some classic good tales like Chronicles of Narnia, or Lord of the Rings, where there are clearly christian allegories and influence, and where evil is thought of as deplorable.

The ((((people)))) who like to write these subversions of common tales and morals, deconstructing settings and the like, claim that they are only 'subverting the mainstream', but they ARE the mainstream. I literally havent seen a book/comic/cartoon/anime where God, his angels and the Church are good, Heaven is a great place and Lucifer is a monstrous being who hates everyone and thinks he is higher than God,with Hell being an awful place, in a long time.

This leads me to the conclusion that most, if not all sources of entertainment has been claimed by Satan. Tales that were meant to teach people about morality instead teach them to sin.

Compare and contrast Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia, which were written by godly christian authors, and His Dark Materials, which were written by a disgusting atheist.

This thread is meant to discuss literature and other forms of entertainme in a christian perspective

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 06:28:38 ac28c2 No.654471

>>654454

I think the inversion you're talking about has been prophesied long ago - it's pretty much the morality of the Antichrist. The idolatrous obsession with 'freedom' that's common both on the Left and the Right seems to be a large part of it. They see our Christian freedom as slavery, because they want to wallow in their false freedoms. The serpent from Eden is just restating what he said in the form of entertainment

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 06:32:09 63b25a No.654473

>>654454

can someone sum up the story behind pullman's saga?

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 06:40:26 fd7428 No.654476

>>654454

You want something classics ? Then read the classics. duh

And otherwise if centuries of Christian literature ain't enough for you then write a book yourself and stop complaining that everything is so sh't.

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 06:40:47 556480 No.654477

>>654473

John C. Wright's dissection of His Dark Materials is pretty funny. http://www.scifiwright.com/2007/12/golden-compass-points-in-no-direction/

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 06:45:21 fd7428 No.654480

>>654477

awfully formatted

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 07:25:48 a23110 No.654489

File: 0cd40d0002d8e2a⋯.jpg (59.48 KB, 400x600, 2:3, 469767258.jpg)

this book just popped into my head while i was reading op, i highly recommend it. if you like spy novels it's great, but what made me think of it is that the demons in it are bad and seek the ruin of souls. i don't want to say any more than that because it's a wonderful book to slowly figure out what the significance of things is.

more to op's point, i really love george macdonald who y'all probably heard of since c.s. lewis considered him his master. macdonald wrote a lot of very christian fairy tales and realistic novels and i love them both.

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 07:46:57 beef3d No.654492

>>654454

>His Dark Materials, which were written by a disgusting atheist.

Well, HDM was made as a "humanist alternative to Chronicles of Narnia", so of course it's a idiotic subversion.

Fortunately, his edgy bs didn't catch with the public, though the imagery is cool(armored bears ftw)

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 08:05:58 fa7387 No.654495

>>654454

To make matters worse, most Christian novels these days are little more than very basic, heavy handed, sermons with two dimensional characters and little to no plot. Gene Wolfe is sort of modern and he writes a lot of good books with Christian themes.

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 08:41:14 15076e No.654498

>>654495

No truer words have been said. Many stories I've seen just feel like add-libbed versions of Bible passages and Christian tradition, rather than using said traditions and scripture as a base from which other bodies of work could derive. They would rather play it safe and be as basic as possible, rather than ruffle some feathers and ask thought-provoking questions. And I don't mean like a Chick Tract-tier "where will you go after death" thing, I mean real issues like salvation and denominational differences.

Christanon 05/29/18 (Tue) 21:13:06 5eab90 No.654705

>>654473

It's a three book long story wherein Pullman can't make up his mind whether he's an atheist or a satanist but either way he hates the church, hates God, hates the promise of the afterlife and hates chastity. The heroes save the cosmos by opening up a big queue in hell for souls to go get themselves recycled back into their constituent bits, kill God by accident and then have some teenage sex.

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 01:28:13 055415 No.654770

>>654705

>The heroes save the cosmos by opening up a big queue in hell for souls to go get themselves recycled back into their constituent bits, kill God by accident and then have some teenage sex.

People read this shit?

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 06:21:58 ecf9c9 No.654879

>>654454

That name sounded familiar, so I looked him up. Pullman also wrote a book called "The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ" where Jesus and Christ are two separate characters, with Jesus basically preaching the modern cult of feel-goodism while Christ teaches icky Pauline Christianity that says some things are more important than my cummies

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 06:30:39 63b25a No.654882

>>654705

didn't imagine that guy was so much into satanism (never read his books) but after reading some quotes i'm surprised. He openly talks about 'killing god' and stuff like that. Just read about what >>654879 also read.

some disgusting quotes can be seen here (although the writer does some relativism in favor of pullman) http://www.margheim.net/Christian/TheGoldenCompass.htm

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 07:04:18 721790 No.654887

>>654454

>His Dark Materials

I read that book series when I was in elementary school. I thought that it was cool because I also played JRPGs with the same premise.

Reflecting on it now though, it was subversive trash that deserved to have a failed film adaptation in the box office. It's no surprise that it was made by the eternal anglo. CF IS RIGHT AGAIN.

>>654473

Imagine an anti-Christianity JRPG script where the protagonists kill God. That's the Pullman saga.

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 08:06:40 5eab90 No.654889

>>654770

Nerds, sure. Pullman's sophomoric garbage is like a breath of fresh air to a certain sort. That his criticisms of religion never really amount to anything more than an unhinged rant from a literal witch about how religion does nothing but kill children and a poorly developed plot thread about how Lyra as the 'New Eve' will bite the fruit of knowledge by having sex at age thirteen may be a selling point for that sort.

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 12:24:05 29b457 No.654923

In Endymion (of the Hyperion Cantos) we have space Catholics although in general they are portrayed in a negative way, but the whole setting of space catholics is kind of awesome

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 13:21:14 c61561 No.654942

>>654454

Quite simply the west is no longer christian so western authors no longer produce christian works of literature.

One don't even need to be an atheist or antichristian to write such books, by living in modern society as a man indifferent to God or a nominal uninterested Christian one absorb the unchristian values of this society and this is reflected in what he does, writes and thinks.

We have simply to accept the fact we live in a pagan society inhabited by pagan people.

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 14:26:34 6df818 No.654977

File: ca181ea844910a2⋯.jpg (77.62 KB, 625x625, 1:1, you-keep-using-that-word.jpg)

>>654454

>I hate modern literature, its literally impossible to find a wholesome read that has clearly christian morals

>I hate modern literature, its literally impossible

>literature … literally impossible

Clearly not "literally impossible" nor just "impossible" because you found two in your OP: Narnia and Rings. Not overtly Gospel literature, but certainly tasty and nutritious, nevertheless

You're right about Pullman's book, but then the guy set out, from the very start of writing, to tear Lewis a fresh ring. He all-but made a literal literary pact with the debil

And you're right about most modern lit'. Postmodernism and post-postmodernism are dreary affairs. Nothing new under the sun.

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 15:10:45 6df818 No.654996

>>654489

doesn't sound very Christian, per se … ?!

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 17:08:10 beef3d No.655033

>>654923

> we have space Catholics

Honestly, even in the weirdest sci-fi, if present, christianity is still there, and somewhat thriving.

Canticle for Leibowitz has them keep the ancient faith and tech alive.

Mass Effect still has them, and people flocked to the Vatican and cathedrals during the Reaper invasion, though theism is discriminated against in the wider human galaxy.

Babylon 5 has the alien ambassador being introduced to all the Earth's major religious denoms. Bonus, all the clergy there are clergy IRL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgVH6d2cwVk

Eclipse Phase has them rule a transhu-luddite empire on Jupiter, while Orthodox have Titania.

Orion's Arm, for all it's absolute weirdness, has the non-catholic apostolics merging, and forming the Evangelical Orthodox Catholic Church, and a splinter group of catholics forming the Reformed Catholic Church(sadly, mainstream catholics went unitarian universalist) that have way more members than today, all of this without an advanced AI, that is crucial for the success of all large civs and organisations in the galaxy!

Sure, you have edgy abominations sometimes like Behold the Man or Star Trek being fedora from time to time, but still.

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 17:40:02 9283f2 No.655046

File: 6eb5a5aeb706605⋯.png (1.34 KB, 34x33, 34:33, lil think.png)

I'm thonking about writing my own book. Not sure if I would ever even publish it, but any advice on how to handle the topic of God and religion?

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 18:48:28 98736d No.655062

File: 119222c99cc4acf⋯.jpeg (49.43 KB, 393x604, 393:604, 18AA5E3E-31EB-4D6E-A0E8-5….jpeg)

>>654923

I see anti-catholic propaganda everyday from all places in this secular world, and it got to the point where if the work that I am interested portrays the Church/God as negative/evil, I instantly lose all interest on it.

And Canticle for Leibowitz was written by a Catholic, so it portrayed religion as a good thing. And is one of the best examples, at least for me, of how a christian novel should be written, just like Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia

>>654977

Chronicles of Narnia and Lord of the Rings dont count, since they are from the 1950/1960.

I meant works that are like those two, but published more recently.

Few things infuriate me more than finding a interesting book/comic where our religion is treated as real, as in, Heaven and Hell exist and all that, but then comes the retarded plot is that God is mean/jerk/evil, and Satan is cool/well/intentioned/good.

>>655046

I am not a writer, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but you should portray religion/God positively, and the Devil negatively. Also, dont commit the mistake of many christian writers, as detailed here >>654495 and here >>654498.

I think Lotr and Chronicles of Narnia are the best example of how christian books should be written

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 19:04:17 1ad0c3 No.655066

>>654977

>Written nearly a hundred years ago

>Modern

I don't think you understand what that word means

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 21:34:42 503e2d No.655104

File: d5229bc675726b5⋯.jpg (565.94 KB, 768x731, 768:731, Leibowitz Quote.jpg)

File: fc5e8dfa88aca89⋯.jpg (181.92 KB, 338x400, 169:200, 17858234.jpg)

File: 58d8234f5a68722⋯.jpg (32.41 KB, 299x475, 299:475, 18lvtf4jur8dkjpg.jpg)

>>654454

Just go and read "Canticle for Leibowits"

Christanon 05/30/18 (Wed) 21:40:54 4ba10a No.655108

>>655104

Read it last year.

Not only beautiful but also entertaining.

Christanon 05/31/18 (Thu) 18:38:08 5eab90 No.655428

>>655066

The modern age has traditionally been reckoned to start with the Fall of Byzantium, I suppose to make it clear that we were going to be in for some hard times.

Christanon 06/12/18 (Tue) 06:14:45 c6dcbb No.660328

File: 0f8eee22c78d6b5⋯.jpg (2.62 MB, 1920x2986, 960:1493, Feast of Holy Katharine.jpg)

>>654495

Highly recommend Wolfe he is fantastic! Book of the New Sun has plenty of Christian themes and allegories even if it doesn't seem like it at first.

Christanon 06/15/18 (Fri) 15:18:11 29b457 No.661741

>>655062

I don't think the Hyperion series is particularly anti-Catholic, the guy shows some respect for all religions and especially for Catholicism he seems to respect its depth

Christanon 07/01/18 (Sun) 20:29:59 70da56 No.668905

File: c0dabe50349ff61⋯.jpg (13.64 KB, 273x378, 13:18, The door to the other side.jpg)

I vaguely remember going through and reading Narnia, when i was a kid in 3rd, or 4th Grade. But it wasn't until i heard of C.S Lewis and was looking for the best case for the christian faith, that learned of how a genius C.S Lewis was in Philosophy, Literature, and laying out the faith as simply as can be, but not in a water downed flavor you see a lot of protestants do in america. I may actually pick up Narnia again and go through. Cause when i was a kid, i just thought this was a kids story like any other, that we'd all read like any of the others on the library shelf. Boy how over my head that went :*(.

Christanon 07/01/18 (Sun) 20:42:10 e22a44 No.668911

I had ideas for two novels, but does God see novels like Lord of the Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia as Christian, even if they do not point to Christianity specifically? They are more science fiction and have religious elements, but do not point to Christianity specifically.

Christanon 07/06/18 (Fri) 00:02:42 15ff17 No.670846

Have you ever noticed the people who love this subversion shit are effeminate little gremlin of men? They're never satisfied with their lives it seems. Weird, almost like there's a connection there.