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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 4b806f0b8f7073f⋯.jpg (36.95 KB, 434x599, 434:599, 434px-Nagash_Derp.jpg)

65201f No.653741

Why is necromancy a sin?

Why was it specified? Also, If its about demons, why doesn't bible specifically mention that summoners are in contact with demons instead of the dead?

>inb4 le ecclesiastes "dead know nothing" meme

no, context is different

>inb4 hafizposter comes

hafiztard replies do not apply

Orthodox and Catholic replies would be appreciated

592915 No.653743

Nobody can know exactly why God forbids something. However, I'd say probably because it leads to idolatry, trusting in the knowlege of dead people rather than the knowlege of God, and also because it uses the dead as a means to an end, rather than giving them the respect they deserve.


7fc80a No.653744

>that fugly Nagash tho

In revelation the use of magic and divination is conflated with idolatry and unbelief so I think it has a lot to do with searching for truth outside of God.


7fc80a No.653745

>>653744

Whoops accidental sage, have a bump


85aec4 No.653747


65201f No.653749

>>653743

>>653744

>>653745

Sounds good for me, thanks for your respnses

>that fugly Nagash tho

Yeah, GW asked the artist to make him a skelly (he wanted nagash to look like a corpse) so this was sort of a midfinger for GW, but they were so lazy that they actually accepted it.

>>653747

there are four active threads about genesis and evolution. This one thread wouldnt hurt anything


7fc80a No.653751

>>653749

lol I never knew that. I actually had that mini as a kid.


c11622 No.653756

>>653741

>Why is necromancy a sin?

Because (God said so and) practitioners of sorcery will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Gal 5:18-22)

>why doesn't bible specifically mention that summoners are in contact with demons instead of the dead?

not always as it seems in the case of Saul:

>Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

>And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

>Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

>And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

>And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

>And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

>And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

>Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?


ea20f5 No.653785

First ask yourself: what is necromancy? So let's ask someone who knows: Saint Isidore. And he says (Etym. viii) in Greek, nekron "means dead and manteia divination, because after certain incantations and the sprinkling of blood, the dead seem to come to life, to divine and to answer questions."

So Necromancy is species of divination. Let's ignore how necromancy works exaclly it's by demons, always ans ask question that stated this thead: since necromancy is in it's very esence divination, is divination a sin?

Yes, for it is written (Deuteronomy 18:10-11): "Neither let there be found among you . . . any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers": and it is stated in the Decretals (26, qu. v, can. Qui divinationes): "Those who seek for divinations shall be liable to a penance of five years' duration, according to the fixed grades of penance."

But we can speak more: Divination denotes a foretelling of the future. The future may be foreknown in two ways: first in its causes, secondly in itself.

Now the causes of the future are threefold: for some produce their effects, of necessity and always; and such like future effects can be foreknown and foretold with certainty, from considering their causes, even as astrologers foretell a coming eclipse.

Other causes produce their effects, 'not of necessity and always, but for the most part, yet they rarely fail: and from such like causes their future effects can be foreknown, not indeed with certainty, but by a kind of conjecture, even as astrologers by considering the stars can foreknow and foretell things concerning rains and droughts, and physicians, concerning health and death.

Again, other causes, considered in themselves, are indifferent; and this is chiefly the case in the rational powers, which stand in relation to opposites, according to the Philosopher [Metaph. viii, 2,5,8.] Such like effects, as also those which ensue from natural causes by chance and in the minority of instances, cannot be foreknown from a consideration of their causes, because these causes have no determinate inclination to produce these effects. 'Consequently such like effects cannot be foreknown unless they be considered in themselves.'

Now man cannot consider these effects in themselves except when they are present, as when he sees Socrates running or walking: the consideration of such things in themselves before they occur is proper to God, Who alone in His eternity sees the future as though it were present. Hence it is written (Isaiah 41:23): "Show the things that are to come hereafter, and we shall know that ye are gods." Therefore if anyone presume to foreknow or foretell such like future things by any means whatever, except by divine revelation, he manifestly usurps what belongs to God. It is for this reason that certain men are called divines: wherefore Isidore says (Etym. viii, 9): "They are called divines, as though they were full of God. For they pretend to be filled with the Godhead, and by a deceitful fraud they forecast the future to men."

Accordingly it is not called divination, if a man foretells things that happen of necessity, or in the majority of instances, for the like can be foreknown by human reason: nor again if anyone knows other contingent future things, through divine revelation: for then he does not divine, i.e. cause something divine, but rather receives something divine. Then only is a man said to divine, when he usurps to himself, in an undue manner, the foretelling of future events: and this is manifestly a sin. Consequently divination is always a sin; and for this reason Jerome says in his commentary on Micah 3:9, seqq. that "divination is always taken in an evil sense."

Necromancy is a sin because divination is a sin.


ea20f5 No.653787

>>653756

>not always as it seems in the case of Saul:

When it comes to this story there are two interpretation. To cite Augustine: "there is nothing absurd in believing that the spirit of the just man, being about to smite the king with the divine sentence, was permitted to appear to him, not by the sway of magic art or power, but by some occult [in proper sense, meaning hidden, not occultic] dispensation of which neither the witch nor Saul was aware. Or else the spirit of Samuel was not in reality aroused from his rest, but some phantom or mock apparition formed by the machinations of the devil, and styled by Scripture under the name of Samuel, just as the images of things are wont to be called by the names of those things."

Former opinion is most common among Fathers and it's plain literal sense, not only story of 1 Kings itself, but also Sirach: "having fallen asleep, he[Samuel] prophesied again, warning the king of his end; he spoke from the depths of the earth in prophecy, to blot out the wickedness of the people."


5f950c No.653794

>>653741

>why doesn't bible specifically mention that summoners are in contact with demons instead of the dead?

How excactly would the shamans of old speak to the dead without God?


ea46b8 No.655868

File: 10d00330eaf4f8e⋯.png (207.36 KB, 598x369, 598:369, come on now.png)

>>653741

>calling verses from Ecclesiastes a meme

>calling ANY verses from the Bible a meme

>that pic

Wololo


8da34f No.655903

>>653741

>Why is necromancy a sin?

Even if it weren't a sin it would still be awful, simply because you throw the circle of life out of balance.

And yes, it's a thing, not just a song from a cartoon.


679737 No.655907

>>655903

>Circle of life

Death is unnatural to human beings so there is no such thing as "circle of life"


a5e42d No.667134

>>667130

NECROMANCY IS A SIN YOU FAGGOT


c253ab No.667136

>>653741

Hi, Smiley


ea20f5 No.667166

>>667134

And this is necromancy >>653785


bc474c No.667184

File: 09f8d6db88655f4⋯.jpg (83.09 KB, 920x950, 92:95, Nagash_White_Dwarf.jpg)

>>653749

>Yeah, GW asked the artist to make him a skelly (he wanted nagash to look like a corpse) so this was sort of a midfinger for GW, but they were so lazy that they actually accepted it.

And then they went in the other direction, and may have jumped the shark, depending on how you see it.


11bfee No.667229

>>667184

Guess they've never heard of the phrase "less is more"


81f7c9 No.672544

>>653741

Humans do not in and of themselves have power to summon the dead. And so said power must come from God or unclean spirits. And so in the case of necromancy, being forbidden by God, this must come from demons.

As to why God doesn't mention that these things are of demons, I don't really know, but presumably he saw that the Israelites were not yet ready for it.


48c216 No.672550

After reading this thread I have many questions.

>Why isn't praying to saints considered necromancy?

>How the winnie the pooh can humans do anything after death?

>How responsible is someone who hears the future predictions of demons but doesn't intentionally summon them?

>How powerful are my dead relatives?

>Are there actually dead humans wandering about the Earth like angels and demons?

>How do I protect myself from these sorcery spirits?


81f7c9 No.672558

>>672550

>Why isn't praying to saints considered necromancy?

1. You are not summoning the saint, but sending them a message honoring them and asking for their prayers.

2. This interaction is by God, and not devils.

>How powerful are my dead relatives?

>Are there actually dead humans wandering about the Earth like angels and demons?

>How the winnie the pooh can humans do anything after death?

Humans are either in heaven, purgatory, limbo?, or hell after death. They have no power to come down to earth of their own accord, unless God allows them to for some specific purpose. Any Ghostly/para-normal activity is in all likely-hood a demon harassing someone.

The power of you dead relatives presumably depends on whether they are in heaven or hell, with those in heaven of course being more powerful; but in either case they still don't have the power to come down to earth by their own will.

>How responsible is someone who hears the future predictions of demons but doesn't intentionally summon them?

There is no sin if you didn't assent by will or action to necromancy.

>How do I protect myself from these sorcery spirits?

Frequent the sacraments, confession and communion mainly. Observe the commandments of God, pray to God. This should ordinarily be sufficient to ward off evil spirits. If these things arn't working and you're being oppressed by a demon then you need to contact an exorcist.


65201f No.672668

>>672550

heres my possibly retarded answer

>Why isn't praying to saints considered necromancy?

Necromancy is when you summon the dead purposefully to acquire some information or so on. Praying on the other hand is just asking them to pray for you (remember that we are immortal, hence saints are treated as alive). All of the prayers towards the saints are about asking them to pray for us to God.

>How the winnie the pooh can humans do anything after death?

>How powerful are my dead relatives?

>Are there actually dead humans wandering about the Earth like angels and demons?

All power come from God, so nobody can do anything without His permission really. It generally depends on state of their soul, but there were anecdotal references where even damned were appearing to people, but its sole purpose was to fortify their faith in God. I also wondered if the damned could possess others like demons, so I asked my priest about it. Basically what I got from him there are two things that differentiates the two:

1)All creation was made for sake of humanity (2 Esdra 8:44 >inb4 "muh apocrypha". Both us and Catholics acknowledge it as part of the bible and was so, until certain fat German decided otherwise.) and are inclined towards it and that includes angelic beings, and humans were made to interact with God, so their "priorities" and vectors differ

2)Angelic beings are fully spiritual, while we are deficient without our bodies.

In short, while dead have certain powers, they, like all humans arent full without bodies and are awaiting resurrection.

>How responsible is someone who hears the future predictions of demons but doesn't intentionally summon them?

Maybe not his fault, but demons cant really predict future, they are still limited to space-time, so they can only guess. With good accuracy maybe, but still. This is one of the arguments of Orthodoxy for criticizing various so called """prophets""" like vanga. Not all of their prophecies are fulfilled, meaning that they dont come from Omniscient God, but from someone or something else.

>How do I protect myself from these sorcery spirits?

Pray, fast, receive Communion, go to confessions often. Prayer and fasting are really important, as some " kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." (Matthew 17:21).


ea20f5 No.672720

>>672550

>Why isn't praying to saints considered necromancy?

Necromancy is species of divination while prayer to saints are intercession made by order of the Divine law.

>How the winnie the pooh can humans do anything after death?

Humans cannot. Human is union of body and soul. But soul of human can. Well at least alive souls.

>How responsible is someone who hears the future predictions of demons but doesn't intentionally summon them?

If you asked for divination then you have as much culpability as one who practices divination. If you heard it purely accidentaly i.e. you did not willed it then you are ok.

>How powerful are my dead relatives?

If they are saints then they are as powerful as angels, depending on their place in Heaven.

If they are not then they are impotent.

>Are there actually dead humans wandering about the Earth like angels and demons?

By power of God some souls from purgatory can appear to living so that they my ask for prayer. Or by the same power saints from Heaven my appear to give some revelation like Jeremiah to Judah Maccabee or Michael to John d'Arc.

>How do I protect myself from these sorcery spirits?

Grace of God. Fast, Prayer and Alms.


4c6850 No.672755

File: 6e6536929fe35a7⋯.jpg (202.31 KB, 800x800, 1:1, 8181174.jpg)

>>653741

I think it's pretty straight forward even in a non-religious sense.

Necromancy even without the supernatural will require people desecrating graves, probably associated with/promotes regional pagan beliefs, and spread diseases ( or"curse")


48d303 No.672793

File: 633fef5777bf1c7⋯.png (180.24 KB, 500x732, 125:183, magic-heresy-21751470.png)

>>653741

Because necromancy is magic and magic is heresy.




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