731f7d No.645503
Begome Gadolig or Orddodogs?
I'm serious
81e357 No.645504
Oredogs. You'll thank me later. Welcome home, can.
d8480f No.645507
31af7c No.645509
Catholic
>I want to take my faith seriously and I dont care what non Christian /pol/acks say on the internet
Orthodox
>I converted because of internet memes and I really just want a russian gf who will fall into my lap simply because I go to the same church as her
0a5c79 No.645514
Catholicism if you want to master the arts of doublethink, self-delusion, and awkward stuttering whenever people mention Pope Francis, and Orthodoxy if you want a saner but more LARPy choice.
321f5b No.645516
>>645514
Protestantism if you want a church for you and your wife's son.
1ebf99 No.645518
>>645509
Yes, anon. You are truly a next level theologian. I like how you seriously went in depth on the flaws of the Orthodox Church's theology and philosophy rather than a childish ad hominem. God Speed :)
7f12f8 No.645521
You're asking the wrong question
119b95 No.645529
its time to take the /orthodog/ pill, /christian/….
8975b8 No.645547
0f0753 No.645552
>>645521
>posts tired reddit meme
>baptist poster
420f48 No.645564
>>645520
>Implying your wife's son is your kid
059bca No.645589
>>645532
Nasrallah Sfeir to the right of Benedict. Based anon.
bd9a1c No.645593
Matthew 16;18: you are Peter and on this rock I will build this church, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven etc. Etc.
e8970f No.645601
>>645593
>I know more about this verse than the Chruch fathers who compiled, wrote and edited the Bible
Do you also know more about the US constitution than Thomas Jefferson?
There is a reason why it took a THOUSAND years for the papist church to appear.
5daaa9 No.645605
>>645503
There is no way the Orthodox church could be the One True Church. They have compromised on things such as the indissolubility of marriage and contraception.
420f48 No.645616
>>645605
>They have compromised on things such as the indissolubility of marriage and contraception.
What does this mean? That IVF is acceptable when you're an Orthodox Christian?
13d122 No.645623
>>645601
>a thousand years
>for the papist church to appear
Yeah right and I'm sure Peter wasn't the first Pope that had authority over all other apostles and he had no duty from God Himself to build the Church. Not even the ortho'est of orthos are this ignorant.
Virtually all Church Fathers agree on the primacy of Peter. Stop accusing others of things you're doing yourself when it comes to "trying to be smarter than the Church Fathers". All these things have been rebuked times and times again, by laymen, by theologians, Eastern as well as Western clergymen, by literally anyone that is not interested in internet-shenanigans or worldly power. Or why do you think are half of the ortho churches in schism or coming schism with each other ? Russian patriarch against Bartholomew of Constantinople (who btw tries to work on mending the schism since his institution - at least in parts) over literally influence and power, Antioch against Jerusalem over territorial issues, the church of Macedonia is not even recognized by anyone so they are begging the Bulgarian church to become their "parent" church - for recognition, or the Ukrainian orthodox church (Moscow patriarchate) against the Ukrainian orthodox church of the Kyivan patriarchate that are fighting because of the whole Eastern-Ukraine thing with Russia where they set churches of the other "Church" on fire.
I don't want to slander the Eastern churches, because I truly believe the schism is mendable and I truly hope for that to happen as there are already a great number of Eastern Catholic churches that are btw sui juris. It's more like this is a tragedy and who really suffers under this are the people of God that can't go to any Catholic church (which the Eastern churches once were) and take the Sacraments there, because it is illicit when you have an actual Catholic church nearby and choose to go to a different, non-Catholic place. Because their Sacraments are valid but illicit due to schism.
>muh constitution
Jokes on you, literally who cares about freemason trickery ? Nothing good has ever come from there.
>>645503
The answer for you is that you need to make it out with your conscience. Without memes and cool argument videos - because if you go by that, you will pander on and on and in the end you won't make any decision - at least there's a chance to that. If you go by "it makes sense", then the objectively right decision is to become Catholic. If it's aesthetics and chants, then Catholicism is your place, too, as the Eastern Catholic churches have all what the EO's have, including theological approaches (obviously with one or the other correction here and there), Liturgy, chants, you name it - and they are not in schism.
Going by "legal standards", Catholicism is the objectively right choice, too. Because as >>645605 mentioned, the ortho churches have compromised on things that are not compromisable because of "oiconomia" which is nothing else than the "flexible exegesis or application of canonical texts". Obviously we Catholics have our shenanigans, too, but there is no compromise on Dogma. There CANNOT be compromise on Dogma. Dogma is Dogma and that's it.
But again, you need to make a conscious decision. Visit Masses and Liturgies. Read the bible. If you want, read Church Fathers. Talk to priests. But most importantly: Pray for guidance.
To get a "taste", pray the Rosary as well as the Eastern rule of Theotokos (of Seraphim Sarov). Both are devotions to the Holy Mother, both are excellent and pretty similar but both also have "different flavors" so to speak.
Rule of Theotokos: http://www.bombaxo.com/blog/files/rule.pdf
Rosary: https://www.rosarycenter.org/homepage-2/rosary/how-to-pray-the-rosary/
Most important is that you receive the most holy Sacraments and glorify God in all things.
May God bless and guide you. Have a great day. Today is the day of the Lord's Ascension into Heaven.
79a5bf No.645625
>>645605
There is no way the Catholic church could be the One True Church. They have been infested with homosexuals and pedophiles.
589452 No.645638
>>645625
I see too many parallels between the Vatican and the Temple corrupted found in the book of Ezekiel.
0b0d43 No.645649
>>645605
> in God's eyes there's a difference between divorce and annulment ; )
does anyone take this seriously?
0bacf4 No.645652
>>645649
What happens when one spouse ignores the nuptial promises?
7ccdb0 No.645657
>>645503
>We have inherited from our fathers in Christ the one apostolic faith and tradition.
- Agreed statement between Oriental and Eastern Orthodox Theologians and Clergy
https://orthodoxjointcommission.wordpress.com/
COMMON CHRISTOLOGICAL DECLARATION BETWEEN THE CATHOLIC CHURCHAND THE ASSYRIAN CHURCH OF THE EAST:
>But the same God the Word, begotten of his Father before all worlds without beginning according to his divinity, was born of a mother without a father in the last times according to his humanity. The humanity to which the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth always was that of the Son of God himself. That is the reason why the Assyrian Church of the East is praying the Virgin Mary as "the Mother of Christ our God and Saviour". In the light of this same faith the Catholic tradition addresses the Virgin Mary as "the Mother of God" and also as "the Mother of Christ". We both recognize the legitimacy and rightness of these expressions of the same faith and we both respect the preference of each Church in her liturgical life and piety.
>Whatever our Christological divergences have been, we experience ourselves united today in the confession of the same faith in the Son of God who became man so that we might become children of God by his grace. We wish from now on to witness together to this faith in the One who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, proclaiming it in appropriate ways to our contemporaries, so that the world may believe in the Gospel of salvation.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_11111994_assyrian-church_en.html
Catechism of Catholic Church on Filioque:
>248 At the outset the Eastern tradition expresses the Father's character as first origin of the Spirit. By confessing the Spirit as he "who proceeds from the Father", it affirms that he comes from the Father through the Son.77 The Western tradition expresses first the consubstantial communion between Father and Son, by saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque). It says this, "legitimately and with good reason",78 for the eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as "the principle without principle",79 is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Holy Spirit proceeds.80 This legitimate complementarity, provided it does not become rigid, does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p2.htm
Catholic.
050523 No.645660
>>645649
Catholicism
>man meets woman
>woman tells man she's a virgin
>they get married
>after getting married, the man finds out that the woman wasn't a virgin and had actually been a raging slut
>the man was deceived into getting married and thus the marriage is invalid and he can get an annulment
Orthodoxy
>husband gets a jail sentence of over seven years for a crime he didn't even commit
>the wife can now divorce him
>"lel those marital vows don't mean anything, they're just an ideal :)"
http://www.saintdemetrios.com/our-faith/divorce
b38b9e No.645661
>>645503
Learn about the history of the Church, especially the last few centuries before the Schism of 1054. Note that although they are less common than the Orthodox sources, you should read also Catholic sources, because there is a lot of very important, and indeed I would say decisive on the issue of which Church is the schismatic one, facts, circumstances and events that might not be given due attention in the Orthodox sources.
b38b9e No.645664
>>645649
Well, is there in God's eyes a difference between:
>a marriage that actually happened
and
>a ceremony that lacked the fundamental characteristics of marriage and so wasn't even marriage
?
fa5675 No.645683
>>645625
>corruption of dogma is comparable to the fallibility of men
Riveting, please tell me more
81e357 No.645684
>>645503
Just go to whatever church is closest
I'm serious
b38b9e No.645698
>>645683
This, even among the Apostles there was Judas.
Or perhaps an even better comparison would be ancient Israelite priests and High Priests. Sin was rampant among these people, but this wouldn't justify you in refusing to accept them as the legitimate priests.
5e3fa3 No.645702
>>645683
But you're church is lead by a man. So man's fallibility is your defining characteristic.
0bacf4 No.645716
>>645702
Lead by men and guarded by the Son of Man, its success is guaranteed.
81e357 No.645718
>>645716
Except its destroying itself from the inside out.
0bacf4 No.645720
>>645718
Yeah because that's never happened before has it
24b8de No.645723
>>645503
lutheran, basically no rules
b2d8ea No.645728
>>645716
Syriaball has durka durka written on the headband
I'd go Ortho, you can sail your Spanish armada through your straits of Gibraltar
a52948 No.645786
>>645503
Note that Orthodox have a particularly twisted and hard and contradicting ascetic practice for laymen/laywomen. In fact, there are no guidelines or statute or universal rule of fasting in the Orthodox world for orthodox laymen, so we've got to fast like monastic folk following monastic statute. And it would be funny if not the fact that MORE THAN A HALF OF DAYS IN THE YEAR YOU CANNOT TOUCH YOUR WIFE AND CANNOT EAT YAMMY FOOD
Orthodox magistrate fully recognizes that problem and it should be the main question discussed during the pan-orthodox quasi-oecumenical council but since Greeks and Russians cannot come to terms over Ukraine and some other politics it is constantly being delayed.
So if you want to live good live choose Catholics where you can fast an hour before mass and problems weren't.
a52948 No.645787
>>645786
>magistrate
magisterium
e824c0 No.645815
>>645625
>How can this church be true when MAN sins?
fbcd88 No.645904
>>645623
I'm not denying the primacy of Peter. He himself didn't see himself as supreme like a pope though.
It did took humanity a thousand years for someone seeing his alleged successor as such.
Don't lie to yourself that Peter wanted this.
>he doesn't speak greek
>he doesn't know the rock in 16:18 Matthew is grammatically feminine
Your nearest orthodox church will be very happy to receive you.
420f48 No.646291
>>645786
>MORE THAN A HALF OF DAYS IN THE YEAR YOU CANNOT TOUCH YOUR WIFE AND CANNOT EAT YAMMY FOOD
Orthodox Catholics can still have pet dogs for intimacy though
…can't they?
c2f6d1 No.646301
>>645786
I didn't know that about the Orthodox, glad I didn't pick that one now when I was deliberating between Orthodox and Catholicism.
b2d8ea No.646322
>>645786
Huh? Sounds like a small concern, there seems to be a recognition that although in theory you're governed by monastic statute, in practice nyet.
Although at least so far as food goes, I'd be happy to forswear meat for half the year. It causes cancer, erectile dysfunction and obesity if overindulged, all of which = never touching your wife in the long term anyway
Also I'm currently recovering from a hangover, so monasticism seems more appealing than usual today
7a4914 No.647365
>>646310
>45 min.
Could you give a brief summary of his argument for those of us pressed for time?
>>646301
I think that issue is probably exaggerated, because even if that is their canon law (not Orthodox, so I don't know), I very much doubt the average layman follows it.
91c50c No.647369
>>645786
>how dare laymen practice disciple and self denial of pleasures
the fasting schedule isn't even mandatory for the most part
43eaf0 No.647389
>>646310
tl;dw
What's the num of the argument? Is he trashing Aquinas or saying that Rome has deviated from the faith Aquinas would know?
7763bc No.647503
>>645509
>LARPer accusing others and being a false with witness
Raven told others that they're black…
7763bc No.647504
>>645786
>So if you want a liberal church without self-discipline and gluttony management, join Catholics, we have CAKEEEES
Also, you are wrong, mandatory part is wendsdey and Friday, and there's no limited days in sex with your wife (asides from some special days such as week before Easter).
0f0753 No.647764
You can join a church that is specific to a place you may or may not be in, like Russian Orthodoxy, and not in communion with Rome, where Saint Peter went to live and die, and then pass down his seat in an unbroken succession.
Or you could also join Christ's church, which has an unbroken line all the way back to Saint Peter, who Christ gave the keys to.
As a third option you can make up stuff as you go along and celibrate some guy in a suit speaking out of his ass in an office building behind the auto parts store.
53f511 No.649097
>>645503
Neither, let Jesus guide you
bf254e No.649101
>>649097
>said the man who can't agree with himself
b532f8 No.649496
OP here what are your thoughts about the Churches of Christ (Not the ICOC)?
b532f8 No.649501
>>649499
I guess that's a no, lmoa. They're quite good as a denomination compared to the rest of Protestant denominations, being completely honest. If not the best.
97c18a No.649511
Fast, pray and ask God for assistance.
b532f8 No.649516
>>649504
Butthurt due to my questioning?
b532f8 No.649517
>>649504
I'm pretty sure that most posters that complain about 4chan have just recently left that place. Haven't been there in 7 years, since 2011.
I remember that christfag (the Irish guy, a Lutheran I think) migrated from /r9k/ to 4chon. When /r9k/ wasn't a complete whinefest.
d78dc1 No.649519
>>649501
>herpes isn't that bad an STD
b532f8 No.649524
>>649519
Protestants are still our brothers in Christ. They're not complete heathens. At least the conservative ones.
Mormons are already a quite different case, for example.
0bacf4 No.649542
>>649524
>Protestants are still our brothers in Christ
They don't love him because they don't keep his commandments. It'll be a cold day in hell before I call one brother.
b532f8 No.649578
>>649542
You act like a Muslim, except that you won't bomb a Prottie church
7e70fd No.649586
I didn't feel like making my own thread, so i'd ask here. I've been wondering between the two, but i'm leaning on Catholicism. So what I really been wondering though, is what happens if you choose the wrong one? Is it possible if you pick either Orthodoxy or Catholicism, you could be damned?
This is if you convert without knowing of course, that the church is schismatic/the wrong choice.
81d2b0 No.649587
>>649578
>You act like a Muslim except not really
>How evil!
Come on now anon.
146aae No.649598
>>645514
>Catholicism if you want to master the arts of doublethink, self-delusion, and awkward stuttering whenever people mention Pope Francis
+1
146aae No.649712
>>645661
>decisive on the issue of which Church is the schismatic one
The Roman Catholic church obviously, since it insisted on papal primacy which was neither in scripture nor tradition. The papist church wouldn't have dared make up these ridiculous claims had Jerusalem and Alexandria still been in Orthodox Christian hands. So papism is not only a heresy, but also a cowardly and opportunistic one, which makes it a 1000 times worse.
ceba05 No.649715
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Become Western Rite Orthodox.
775730 No.649721
>>645503
Why would anyone become Catholic? The pope pretty much comes right out and says they were wrong about everything for the last 2000 years, so why would they be right now?
bc7331 No.649734
>>649712
>scripture
And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
>tradition
for about 2,000 years, yes.
The only people confused about the Seat of Rome seems to be anyone who hates it, and hates the authority Christ bestowed upon it.
Even St. Paul stepped in to correct his brother, St. Peter, this is not a condemnation of the papal seat, but rather an example of fraternal correction among the Church.
>The papist church wouldn't have dared make up these ridiculous claims had Jerusalem and Alexandria still been in Orthodox Christian hands. So papism is not only a heresy, but also a cowardly and opportunistic one, which makes it a 1000 times worse.
Schisms gonna schism
bc7331 No.649735
>>649721
You wolf among sheep, do not pretend you belong to the flock.
050523 No.649800
>>649586
It is indeed possible that you could be, and I would even say that you will be, damned if you choose to become Orthodox instead of Catholic. This is because you have access to the teachings of both churches, and through study you can know which is the True Church.
How then can you know which one is the True Church?
Let's approach this from the point of view of natural law. The natural law is written in the hearts of all men (Rom. 2:14-15). This means that, through the use of reason, any man can know which actions are intrinsically evil.
If one of the churches teaches that something intrinsically evil is not actually evil, you can deduce that this church is not actually the true one. I can think of one example of this, which is artificial contraception (the pill, condoms etc.)
The Orthodox Church teaches that artificial contraception is allowed under "oikonomia", meaning that a married couple can use it for "good reasons". As you probably know, the Catholic Church teaches that it is intrinsically immoral and can thus never be used.
Which church is right then? The one that teaches the Truth and hasn't caved to the sinful tendencies of man. I'd recommend you read this to understand the Catholic position on the matter https://www.catholic.com/tract/birth-control.
8f5690 No.650115
>>649800
>>649586
Now can I get someone who's orthodox to give me how they view this?
ab4b2b No.650263
>>645605
And the Catholic Church has compromised on everything else as well
ab4b2b No.650267
>>650115
Us Orthodox say a Christian of any denomination is possibly saved but Orthodoxy is certainly the surest way to complete your spiritual journey and to work out your salvation. So if you find that doctrinal saber rattling convincing, go ahead and become Catholic but the Orthodox Church still loves you anyway.
ab4b2b No.650268
>>649735
Maybe the Pope should consider the same
ab4b2b No.650272
>>645786
>Asceticism is bad
Now you're just talking like a Baptist
ab4b2b No.650273
>>645815
>He's never heard "you will know them by their fruit"
6e6a8e No.650280
>>650263
Can you give one example?
ab4b2b No.650281
>>650280
The Pope just said there is no hell not a month ago. I don't even know how this kind of delusion is possible
6e6a8e No.650283
>>650281
>an atheist reporter who had a private meeting with Pope Francis claims that Francis doesn't believe in Hell
>The Catholic Church has changed its doctrine
Can you not see the difference?
656ecf No.650329
>>645509
>>645503
Catholic
>consolidated ecclesiastical structure and doctrine/dogmas where the many breaches of it are handwaved away as "not real Catholicism" but are then essentially overlooked to remain united
Orthodox
>unified doctrine but with ecclesiastical structure broken by schism along ethnic and political lines usually as a result of petty feuding or something equally gay
I think the Catholics have a better claim to universal dysfunction than the Orthodox do
e16067 No.650357
how sad to see all these insults being flung at those who should be brethren in need of help.
Go Catholic, I'd say, since I'm one. Like others said, visit maybe a Catholic parish and then an Orthodox church, see where you sense the true sense of sacred; do not go where you feel better, because your feels are always wrong.
8f5690 No.650359
>>650267
>>649800
I get the vibe that the Catholics care more about the church than Jesus
050523 No.650368
>>650359
The thing is, Jesus established a visible Church here on Earth, and by rejecting His Church you reject Him. If you choose to disobey Him in even one matter of faith, you are rejecting Him completely.
c09c75 No.650374
>>646310
Source?
This guy seems to know what hes talking about
07e2c0 No.650398
4c8076 No.650751
honestly have the same question.
I feel like i lean Orthodox except that i believe that the Sacred Heart and other devotions based on the wounds of Christ are valid forms of worship which i've been told is semi-nestorian
1b91d1 No.650822
>>650368
Yeah, and the Catholics seemed to throw it away for imperialism. Keep your "infallible" popes, I'll praise God the way it was intended.
050523 No.650850
>>650822
>seemed
That's not good enough. You have the obligation to search for the truth. Being content with something seeming like something is pure laziness.
>Keep your "infallible" popes, I'll praise God the way it was intended.
You absolutely sure you aren't committing the sin of pride?
050523 No.650851
>>650751
Don't trust your feelings, they can always lead you astray. This is an intellectual question. Anyone can study the history of the churches and see that the Catholic position is right.
ab4b2b No.650854
>>650850
I doubt any Christian can say he's absolutely sure he isn't committing the sin of pride but I don't think that has much to do with the Pope.
050523 No.650860
>>650854
It has had, and still has, a lot to do with the Pope. It's how we have the thousands upon thousands of different Protestant denominations, each claiming to possess the truth. In Protestantism, each man wants to be his own pope, taking orders from no one but God.
The office of a pope does exist, but only one man has claim to it, the successor of St. Peter. Anyone who claims to be his own pope is only too proud.
7b4c94 No.650866
>>649542
what law is not kept by the coc?
4221ac No.651576
I suppose institutionalization of the Church was necessary for it to survive, all its rites or liturgy per se as well as the compilation of Holy Scripture paved the way through difficult times for it to survive.
The key message, however, is in Scripture (compiled by the Church; I also consider the Apocrypha as valid Scripture because Luther was great at winnie'ing it up when 'recompiling' the Bible), not in the institution, as least that's how I personally interpret it.
If we take away the liturgy and integrate it symbolically onto our life instead, get the key message in Scripture, and are disciples of Christ and getting people to know him, we're already Christians and certainly not doomed to hell. I believe however, that works and faith are necessary, but not 'empty' works: works that come from a Christian heart.
rate
22a443 No.651596
0c0077 No.651650
>>651596
A specific example
d6ca5f No.651694
>>651596
I'll take "Hasn't read a single word of any of the four major constitutions published by Vatican II" for 500, Alex.
>>650281
>The media said the Pope just said there is no hell not a month ago.
FTFY
>I don't even know how this kind of delusion is possible
wew i no rite.
4c8076 No.651699
>>650851
unless i can find one that preforms the Extraordinary form on Sundays in my city, unlikely. went to a Post-Vatican II mass and the priest tried too hard to be funny and the girl who lead the singing was tone deaf.
4221ac No.651722