/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>639754

God forgived His enemies without their repentance (Jesus on the cross). God gave you faith without your repentance as a grace, even though you were previously His enemy who spat in His face and killed Him. If we are to be like Him, how are we meant to be solely transactional in forgiveness? How are we to be loving, while keeping a record of wrongs (which is NOT love which is NOT God which means it IS hate and IS of the devil)? Don't take one scripture and try to make a theology about it. Forgive and rejoice and love unceasingly, just because non-Christians try to shut up proper rebukes of their sins with "love always" doesn't mean we aren't meant to. They make the mistake of think that's exclusive with rebuking their degeneracy, it's not. Do both.

What I've heard in the prayer is basically asking God to forgive me as I forgive others, if I forgive others instantly and immediately and always without malice, when I confess so will He forgive me the same. So if it is transactional (though I don't think of it this way), then it's to our benefit and the whole world if we forgive instantly and never withhold forgiveness.

>>639754

Where does the supernatural power to forgive come from?

Who transforms believers inwardly to desire to forgive?

As to your meme posted explain this:

"From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of [God's] choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;" (Romans 11:28)

In fact, what does the Apostle Paul explain in Romans 11?

>>639764

Exactly, we shouldn't withhold forgiveness. But I cannot forgive those who aren't sorry, nor would Christ.

Again, confession is a sacrament. I could not be baptized or receive communion until I confess.

>>639768

>Nor would Christ

But He did though. "And when they came to the place that is called “The Skull,” there they crucified him, and the criminals, the one on his right and the other on his left. But Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

Not to mention, if you have not forgiven someone, you are forbidden to pray to God, as your offering of prayer is filthy and improper to Him:

"And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”

"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (This verse comes immediately after the Our Father)

And if you can not pray without having forgiven, for even a second, you are in violation of the commandment to pray without ceasing (which I take in a very literal way, others do not).

Pretty sure I've committed many sins I've never formally and specifically confessed or repented of simply because I forgot about them or I don't know they're sins. I still hope for my own forgiveness. Forgive people who wrong you because they're likely just acting out of ignorance or shortsightedness or have been deceived.

>>639778

I'm talking about people who deliberately harm you and wish to see you suffer. I can want to forgive them, I can pray for their souls, but without their repentance, I cannot actually forgive them. It reduces the concept of "forgiveness" to insignificance.

>>640040

> A psalm of David.

>Praise the LORD, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle.

>Psalm 144:1

> He trains my hands for war, so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

>2 Samuel 22:35

>Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

>First Peter 5:8

>And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses.

>Nehemiah 4:14

>>639754

Probably heretical, and if not, definitely a very unusual opinion, contrary to everything I've read about forgiveness from all reliable sources on the Catholic doctrine I've read.

>>640074

Perhaps I should add that forgiving the person means only that - forgiving that person. It doesn't necessarily entail e.g. abandoning of what you have a just claim to and what the person you need to forgive has taken (so you can e.g. demand that a thief give you back your property while at the same times forgiving him), or restoring that person to the same level of trust or closeness as before; obviously, if your enemy on account of his actions provides a danger to the society (e.g., he sees that you didn't report him, because of this becomes "braver" and repeats this act), you obviously can and should report him, but not due to anger, desire of his suffering, etc. You still must forgive him.