/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I'm on phone so I'll be short

>This is the same God?

Yes. "El" is a word meaning "God". Yahweh is the attribute of God ("I am who I am"). The verse here seems to talking about people of the covenant. Nations were divided and jewels were chosen by God.

Bible never acknowledged that there were multiple gods. When "gods" in plural is used or "god" not in context of idolatry, it denotes either humans in general (ex Psalm 82), but most often judges and people in charge. Psalm 82 is also noteworthy that it also uses "Elohim" (meaning "God" in context of…well… God and "gods" regarding humans) while also using "Elyon" ("Most high") similar to case you mentioned.

Assumption that there were "le Elohist and Yahwist factions) is a winnie the pooh retarded theory created by modern day scholars. Because yeah, THEY can obviously know the meaning of the verses better than a thousand years old tradition of exegesis.

>>635866

Yes but the significance of El and Yahweh is based that the people of Caanan worshiped El as the highest of their gods, and that Yahweh eventually becoming conflated with El.

"It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the "God of Abraham"… If El was the high God of Abraham—Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh—Asherah was his wife, and there are archaeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect "divorced" in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE." ~ Oxford Companion to World Mythology

This stuff is so old and fragmented with multiple possible answers, how can a Christian conclusively argue against all of it? Are apologetics going to be weak here forever?

>>635872

I mean, if you read the OT a lot of it is basically:

1. Israel practices idolatry

2. Israel is punished for it

evidence of polytheism is just evidence that Israel indeed practised idolatry before eventually becoming (somewhat) faithful to the Lord

I mean, in the Book of Maccabees (can't remember which one) we see someone (I can't remember exactly who) kill another Israelite because that Israelite defiled the Temple through offering sacrifice to pagan gods in obedience to Antiochus.

>>635860

El was just the general word for God in that area, not just in Israel but the Levant and parts of Mesopotamia in general, at the time. Elohim meant gods, but it's often used with singular pronouns to refer to God because in ancient Hebrew referring to something singular with plural terms was a sign of honor, similar to the royal we. This would be like if someone made the claim that Christians worshiped two gods, one named God and another named Yahweh. It's ridiculous.

>>635872

>"It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the "God of Abraham"… If El was the high God of Abraham—Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh—Asherah was his wife, and there are archaeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect "divorced" in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE."

This is all mental gymnastics and conjecture. Like I said, El meant "god" so it makes sense that another religion would use that word for one of their gods as well.

>~ Oxford Companion to World Mythology

There's your problem. Oxford has a history of deliberately misinterpreting things to undermine Christianity. In their commentary on the Bible they try claim that it never says God created anything out of nothing.

>>636232

>in ancient Hebrew referring to something singular with plural terms was a sign of honor, similar to the royal we.

please end this retarded meme

>>636232

Creation ex nihilo comes from Maccabees.

I have no book in particular, but in my opinion it is merely a linguistic confusion.

The tribe of Abraham was from Mesopotamia and it was influenced by the language of that region, so some of their names for God descended from the roots of El: Eloha, Elohim.

Our own way of saying God (Gott, God, Deus, Dios, etc…) is actually just the generic name of divine beings that was also used for pagan gods.

In no way this imply that the object of our worship is the old being.

YHWH and the mesopotamic El are different, acts in different way and want a different form of worship.

Bump. anyone who has more info on this, that would be a great help. I'm lebanese and thus a descendent of the ancient Canaanites..this has been bugging me for a while as well as I did my own 'research'. please clarify my doubts, thank you

>>635860

I've never really found this to be too much of a problem for my faith. I mean, the Bible itself basically tells us this:

>I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty [El Shaddai], but by my name the LORD [Yahweh] I did not make myself fully known to them.

>Exodus 6:3

Melchizedek worships God Most High [El Elyon], no doubt a regional variant of El, and both Melchizedek and Abraham identify their God as the same God:

>Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High [El Elyon].

> And he blessed him and said:

>“Blessed be Abram of God Most High [El Elyon], Possessor of heaven and earth;

>And blessed be God Most High [El Elyon], Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”

>…

>But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the Lord [Yahweh, but it's anachronistic here], God Most High [El Elyon], the Possessor of heaven and earth,

>…

>Genesis 14:18-22