/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>Was it separate from the Roman Catholic Church?

Probably not.

The biggest differences that can be determined were either cosmetic or disciplinary, rather than theological. For instance their monasticism was different and more integrated into local communities, they utilised green and white martyrdoms more than their continental brethren, and their tonsures were triangular rather than circular and the system of penance was private rather than public (which the Universal Church ended up adopting at Lateran IV).

>Was it heretical?

The biggest difference was probably that many were Quartodecimanist for a long time and gradually began to accept the Roman computus method of calculating Easter. That seems to be as bad as it really got, since it was only gradually accepted by the insular Christians.

That said, it's possible that this was just a bit of a fringe thing, since the Anglo-Saxon and Hiberno-Scottish missions seem to attest that they were already using the Roman computus.

Celtic Christianity is just a meme pushed by either Anglicans to try to justify their "WE WUZ APOSTOLIX" heresy, or by Orthodox who think that the Christianity on the islands was co-opted by evil papists.

Oh, and there is also a third camp of modernist non-/interdenominational revisionists who look at it as some kind of earth-friendly "natural" faith. Like these people https://iona.org.uk/about-us/concerns/

>>635740

thanks anon, I got confused reading Scotus Eriugena who was pretty heretical, and I recalled a Varg video (lol) where he claimed Celtic XP was some gnostic shit.

I doubt we know very much about early Celtic Christianity, so I would be skeptical of claims made about it, without citing sources. The only source I've seen about it is St. Bede, writing about St. Anselm of Canterbury. Bede says that St. Anselm of Canterbury met with the Celtic bishops about their not keeping the customs of the Roman Church. St. Anselm ended up making three demands:

1. That they follow the Roman calculation of Easter (following the Council of Nicaea)

2. That they "fulfil the ministry of Baptism, by which we are born again to God, according to the custom of the holy Roman Apostolic Church" (not clear what he means here, but seems to be referring to the particular ceremonies of the Roman rite of baptism)

3. That they join the Roman missionaries in preaching to the English.

Of the other customs of the Celts, Augustine said, "we will gladly suffer all the other things you do, though contrary to our customs." Likewise, the Celtic bishops seemed to have rejected Augustine over personality issues rather than any real doctrinal disagreement. I have heard it alleged by Trail of Blood type Baptists that the Celts were Sabbatarian Baptists, but nothing from Bede's account suggests they were Sabbatarians, just that they used a lunar calendar calculation for Easter, and much less that they were proto-Baptists.

Here's where Bede talks about this dispute.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bede/history.v.ii.ii.html

>>635753

Scotus Eriugena is weird but not representative of the Celtic Church as a whole. That would be kind of like saying the Egyptian church was all like Origen (who believed in similar kinds of things to Eriugena.

Better examples are the standards like Sts Columba, Columbanus, Patrick, Ninian, Alban, David, Serf, Cuthbert, Brigid, Aidan etc.

>>635760

>St Augustine

There's a story that when Pope St Gregory sent Augustine to Britain, many British Bishops went to a holy hermit for advice. He told them that if, when they meet Augustine, he stands up to greet them, he is a holy and humble man and they should listen to him, but if he stays seated, then he is to be ignored. At the Whitby Synod, the British bishops approached St Augustine who remained seated, and this caused an outrage, and meanwhile poor St Augustine, still sitting, had no idea what they were shouting about.

>>635763

That story is recounted by Bede. I might as well quote it.

>This being decreed, there came, it is said, seven bishops of the Britons, and many men of great learning, particularly from their most celebrated monastery, which is called, in the English tongue, Bancornaburg, and over which the Abbot Dinoot is said to have presided at that time. They that were to go to the aforesaid council, be-took themselves first to a certain holy and discreet man, who was wont to lead the life of a hermit among them, to consult with him, whether they ought, at the preaching of Augustine, to forsake their traditions. He answered, "If he is a man of God, follow him."— "How shall we know that?" said they. He replied, "Our Lord saith, Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart; if therefore, Augustine is meek and lowly of heart, it is to be believed that he bears the yoke of Christ himself, and offers it to you to bear. But, if he is harsh and proud, it is plain that he is not of God, nor are we to regard his words." They said again, "And how shall we discern even this?" – "Do you contrive," said the anchorite, "that he first arrive with his company at the place where the synod is to be held; and if at your approach he rises tip to you, hear him submissively, being assured that he is the servant of Christ; but if he despises you, and does not rise up to you, whereas you are more in number, let him also be despised by you."

They did as he directed; and it happened, that as they approached, Augustine was sitting on a chair. When they perceived it, they were angry, and charging him with pride, set themselves to contradict all he said. He said to them, "Many things ye do which are contrary to our custom, or rather the custom of the universal Church, and yet, if you will comply with me in these three matters, to wit, to keep Easter at the due time; to fulfil the ministry of Baptism, by which we are born again to God, according to the custom of the holy Roman Apostolic Church; and to join with us in preaching the Word of God to the English nation, we will gladly suffer all the other things you do, though contrary to our customs." They answered that they would do none of those things, nor receive him as their archbishop; for they said among themselves, "if he would not rise up to us now, how much more will he despise us, as of no account, if we begin to be under his subjection?" Then the man of God, Augustine, is said to have threatened them, that if they would not accept peace with their brethren, they should have war from their enemies; and, if they would not preach the way of life to the English nation, they should suffer at their hands the vengeance of death. All which, through the dispensation of the Divine judgement, fell out exactly as he had predicted.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bede/history.v.ii.ii.html