/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>629261

>anybody here recommend some more extreme versions of self-discipline?

I would recommend dumping your vices before this, for the simple reason that your body hasn't done anything wrong, it's just following your orders, ergo you are the one who needs the disciplining.

That said, gym workouts are always excellent if you want to tax the body.

>>629283

cilice aren't necessarily harmful, they are just uncomfortable. Why should I not introduce some discomfort into my life?

In my opinion, there are many ways of mortifying yourself, not necessarily physical. In my case I need to receive an humiliation from time to time to reduce my ego (like failing an exam or serving someone that I perceive as an inferior).

>self inflicted pain

This isn't the middle ages, there are better ways to get off if you want to.

>>629314

sounds pretty cuckish to me tbh

>>629293

How about you give up vices and work harder for God to introduce discomfort rather than unproductively creating devices just to hurt yourself? How does a hairshirt benefit you or anyone?

It was good enough for Paul, it was good enough for desert fathers, it was good enough for middle ages saints, it was good enough for Sister Faustina and John Paul II so it should be good enough for you ONLY AFTER you talk this through with your spiritual director.

>>629378

>>629293

This. Do some heavy physical labor for your church. Perhaps there's someone elderly in your congregation who needs a lot of yard work done.

>>629386

>It was good enough for Paul

What was, specifically?

>>629427

>What was, specifically?

24 Know you not that they that run in the race, all run indeed, but one receiveth the prize? So run that you may obtain.

25 And every one that striveth for the mastery, refraineth himself from all things: and they indeed that they may receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible one.

26 I therefore so run, not as at an uncertainty: I so fight, not as one beating the air:

27 But I chastise (hupópiazó, I bruise, worry, exhaust, literally I give myself black eye) my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.

>>629283

>caring about a shitty loaner car when you've got a mazaratti waiting in Heaven

No one here's your spiritual father. Go ask him rather than us.

>>629261

I also fast. How long do you fast for? Once a week I'll fast for 24 hours.

>>630256

Oh yeah! Twice a week I'll fast for 48 hours.

>>630256

I've been fasting more often now and it might slow down now that lent is over but i fast a couple times a week from midnight the night before to sundown. I also fast 24 hours at least once a week

>>630218

I'm just gonna be honest and say that I'm not involved in a church right now. I'm a Presbyterian who's looking to get away from Protestantism and I'm looking into both the RCC and Orthodox church since I don't know much about either. Frankly I think my pursuit of a community after many years of being uninvolved is nothing short of an act of the Holy Spirit in my life. In a very short time my personal faith has become very intense an tumultuous and I'm looking for ways to both foster this intensity and temper it by joining a church. With all that being said; until I have a personal spiritual mentor, I'm earnestly asking for help and sincerity.

>>630408

>>630409

I admire your faith and commitment to your spiritual life, but I think it would be wise to slow down a little and take things one step a time, especially since you're essentially just starting out. None of what you're doing right now is necessarily bad, but overdoing it could accidentally lead to you hurting yourself or falling into spiritual pride/temptation.

I'm reminded of a story from an elder – he recounted two kinds of men that would join his monastery seeking to become monks. The first kind were monks that would refuse to use pillows when they slept, would eat nothing but bread and water, and would wake up hours before the (4-5 AM) morning services every day to do independent prayers. The second kind were those who would make it beyond the first 6 months.

Before you even think about extremes like flagellation, you need to go through a proper catechism. I strongly advise you to forget about doing more than a weekly fast until you have the support network of a spiritual father and other Christians in your parish.

>>630413

thank you very much for your advice. The thing I'm most terrified of right now is losing this passion I feel. Is that wrong to say? I agree with you that I need to seek a good community and mentors as soon as possible but it feels like that is too far away and I'm in danger of burning out. There are many people around me that I speak to openly about these things so in a way I am part of some sort of community but I feel very adrift right now as well. Sorry for all this, I can't really articulate my position super clearly and I'm sorry for blogging but I really appreciate the advice and wisdom being dispensed here.

>>630423

Honestly a lot of things in your post are how I feel currently. It's a weird mismatch of church doctrine, personal belief, desire for discipline and sudden change. I've never questioned my place in Protestantism until fairly recently (even though I haven't regularly attended church for many years). I very suddenly became obsessed with the differences between all of the mainline churches and what I found in the bible and personal prayer runs very contrary to what I was taught in my Presbyterian church of my confirmation. Granted, I belonged to a PCUSA church so this could be different for other Prot churches but I just don't think that Prot churches I've been to have it right. I don't hate Protestant ideas, quite the contrary, but there is too much denial of difficulty and evil in the church. There is little to no involvement in the faith outside of sunday services. Things and ideas that are considered mystical sacraments in other denoms are naturalised and symbolized to the moon and back. And they don't dwell on difficulty and suffering. My recent re-readings of the gospels has brought to my attention how much Jesus discussed suffering and difficulty in following Him. Maybe I've been going to the wrong Prot churches but they have never mentioned the narrow door or anything like that in any sort of visceral capacity. With all of this being said, I agree 100% on what you have said about rituals and traditions which is why I feel like I'm in such a precarious situation. I read the bible and pray but I'm not convinced I'm doing everything in my power to open my heart to Him in prayer; not to say that ritual for ritual's sake can help with this, but that there are valuable ideas and lessons taught in these practices that I think earnest study, contemplation, and prayer can foster.

self mutilation isn't Christian. Stoicism is another doctrine of demons.

>>630440

>I'm sorry for blogging

Don't be. Half the point of this board is fellowship and we can help you better when you're open about where you find yourself with relation to the faith.

It's good to be afraid to lose your passion. In fact, that's exactly why I think you should get started with catechism. Speaking from my own experience, learning all about the faith and the history of the Church only made me feel a stronger desire to get involved and get closer to taking Holy Communion. And it's not a particularly hard thing to do, even. You could easily get started by the end of this coming weekend.

Having people around you that can help is a blessing, but it's not really a replacement for church. Going to one will probably help with that feeling of being adrift.

On a personal note, I'd just remind you about overcommitting yourself in the beginning. Especially since your experience in your church gives me the sense that you're looking to become as involved as you can to fill the fellowship void you've experienced.

When I first became Orthodox I started attending every service they offered, eventually even serving in the altar and doing Epistle readings during Liturgies within my first year. Eventually, the parish started relying on me to do specific jobs and attendance was becoming mandatory. I loved going to Church, but all the responsibility and time restrictions wore on me as I struggled to juggle my work and home responsibilities. I burned out in a few months and I had to take a break for a while and start again slow.

I apologize if it seems like I'm trying to cram you into church, but I really can't say enough about how helpful it can be. I'm also ex-Presbyterian, and when I was between denominations I hesitated for a year or two before I decided to visit a parish. If I'd known how helpful catechism would be or how much I would love Liturgies I would never have waited for as long as I did.

I ate about two hours ago. It's Saturday 2:20 PM now, and I'm hoping to fast until Monday morning.

>>630423

Why can't protties meme? Reminds me of /leftypol/s sad attempts.

>>631333

Stoa believed they could attain a virtuous life by their own actions and without the grace of God. Detachment from the world in their schools meant a prideful dismissal of creation. Although their rejection of pomp and pleasure was admirable, their determinism was just as extreme as Calvin's. Summing up Stoicism as you did is flippant and a bit misleading as someone could take that as "Well I guess the Stoa and Christians share worldviews", a thought which could lead them into heresy.

>>629261

>extreme versions of self-discipline?

Try fasting for over a week while only drinking Gatorade and water.

>>631105

I'm disappointed that I failed, but I did make it past 24 hours. I might try again next weekend.

>>629261

Achieve abstinence if you're looking for more self-discipline. Also, by all means fast, but don't starve yourself. Self-inflicted states of pain are just a twisted mirror of hedonistic states.

Also, you can look into traditions of silent prayer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm

Silence is more difficult to bear for the soul than both extremes of pain and pleasure.

>no more denomination flags

Man, this place's changed since I've last been here.

>>631643

Thanks anon. I'm on spring break break right now and I have had the opportunity to read the way of a pilgrim on the plane which a very interesting and inspiring introduction to the idea of constant prayer. The idea of hesychasm is one that is appealing to me so I've been practicing silent recitations of prayers for extended periods of time. I'm interested to see how this idea will play out. First and foremost I will become involved with a church when I get back so I can find a spiritual mentor.