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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 61f0999aa882d9b⋯.jpg (106.65 KB, 1200x420, 20:7, The Virgin Preacher and Th….jpg)

d241da No.627548

Hey /christians/, me and my friend plan to attend at an ultra conservative church/parish tomorrow because there is none in our city. We'd go even as far as travelling a couple hundred kilometers just to visit one and to see what it is like. Problem is that no google skills let me find one. So, this is my last resort writing to you, guys, asking for help in this matter.

As we all know Europe is way worse off than the US in this regard but luckily we live in the South, so Baden-Württemberg and Bayern (Bavaria), home of many Catholic Germans, are great oppurtunities. I suppose to find such would only go through word of mouth, so, is there anyone of you who can recommend us in which town/village and church/parish to go?

Many thanks in advance.

bd6386 No.627577

Which denomination? which city?


d241da No.627599

>>627577

Don't care except Pentecostal/Charismatic/Funcenter churches, and as long as it is in Bavaria or Baden-Württemberg, I don't care as well.


bd6386 No.627608

>>627599

There is a very conservative brand of pentecostals in Germany with a rather big following. they dont fit the charismatic Funcenter Stereotype at all. they came out of a Lutheran/Baptist tradition.


d241da No.627677

>>627608

My problem with Pentecostals is generally that they "speak in tongues" and obsess over the Holy Spirit tió an unreasonable degree.


aaeccf No.627680

Reminder that baptism is not a requirement for salvation and believing in so is a form of works

1 Peter 3:21 KJV

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism is a show of faith to the world, not God. God need only look to your heart and mind for confirmation of faith.


d241da No.627684

>>627680

What that does have to do with my thread? Me and my friend just want to see and experience a traditional church/parish with our own eyes and possibly finding a trad qt wife of our dreams if we're lucky.

I don't associate myself with any denomination and neither will I in the near future. Cathodox fellows would call me a Prot but I don't believe in OSAS and it's one of the most retarded doctrines I've ever heard of. I rest my case with James 2:24.


cd3a81 No.627685

>>627680

Mark 16:16

>He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


aaeccf No.627687

>>627685

>but he that believeth not shall be damned

>"jk he that is baptized not shall be damned as well"


aaeccf No.627689

>>627684

>James 2:24

>Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Justified does not equal salvation. Nowhere in the bible does justified equate to salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

>You need works to go to heaven

Mathew 7:21-23

>but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 6:39-40

Repent


cd3a81 No.627692

>>627687

What is the flow of logic?

Did that passage say "you must have faith OR be baptised"?

No, it didn't.


d241da No.627693

>>627689

I don't buy into your shitty doctrine. If any man has genuine faith he will live more and more according to God, anyone who does not, does not believe genuinely. Faith and works are not exclusive but go hand in hand.

NOW, STOP DERAILING THE THREAD OR I WILL CALL THE MODS WHO WON'T DO THEIR JOB ANYWAY!


aaeccf No.627694

>>627692

Where in the bible does it say "if you aren't baptized, you will go to hell"? It doesn't say it there either. What kind of logic is it to believe in John 3:16

>For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

>"but secretly I won't mention that they have to be baptized for the ETERNAL life"

>>627693

If you have faith then works will follow, but you only need faith to be saved. You should try reading the Holy Bible from cover to cover instead of being fed verses out of context.


34a49f No.627695

>>627693

Good on you, lad. Anyway no clue about your church problem but Godspeed and will pray


63a911 No.627698

>>627548

I found this (Hope is updated). Maybe can help you.

http://users.skynet.be/histcult/liste.htm


d241da No.627709

>>627698

Thanks man, I'll look into it. Now I found a parish that seems pretty solid but on the website it says "Latin Liturgy", does that mean that everything is spoken in Latin? Even though it sounds nice, I unfortunately don't understand Latin.


8eb1f1 No.627710

>>627599

>Funcenter

wat


d241da No.627713

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>627710

Fortunate you to never heard of it. But I think you know what it is.


59450c No.627714

>>627709

Its a traditional Latin Mass. Most likely, they will have papers that translates the Latin prayers in you native language.

The homily is usually in your native language.

Sauce: https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tridentine_Mass

I prefer the Latin Mass as it was Orginally created as a response to the Vatican 2 heresy.


59450c No.627718

>>627694

What part of "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" didn't you understand?

The "and" part?


aaeccf No.627720

>>627717

>>627718

The missing part in the entire Holy Bible that is supposed to say "but he that believeth not and is baptized not shall be damned" yet there are many verses that say you only have to believe in Jesus Christ with no mention to baptism for salvation

Acts 16:30-31

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


d241da No.627724

File: 22e1ab3db55a142⋯.jpg (19.51 KB, 400x300, 4:3, I love you.jpg)

>>627714

>Its a traditional Latin Mass

>as a response to the Vatican 2 heresy

You sold me. I'm going to the associated parish then.


59450c No.627726

File: f6135eaf942e5ca⋯.jpg (8.99 KB, 202x249, 202:249, images (30).jpg)

>>627720

>Yes he did say believe in Jesus Christ and follow him and you shall be saved

<Jesus says you need to be baptised as well as have faith in order to be saved

<Mark 16:16

>B-b-but He didn't REALLLLY mean that, goy

>just follow my interpretation of the bible and you shall be saved


59450c No.627728

File: 1a4ef9499a67242⋯.jpg (11.49 KB, 300x300, 1:1, praise.jpg)

>>627724

I hope all goes well for you! Gott mitt dir!


aaeccf No.627730

>>627726

Mark 16:16

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

>if you are baptized and believe in Jesus Christ you will go to heaven

>NOT you need to be baptized and believe in Jesus Christ to go to heaven

>but he that believeth not shall be damned

>but if you don't believe in Jesus Christ you will go to hell

I don't know how much clearer I can make that for you.

1 Peter 3:21

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

>not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God

So far you've only been able to hang unto one verse where I've corrected your interpretation. I'm not your enemy here, man. I just want more people to go to heaven.


59450c No.627731

>>627730

It pretty simple logic, anon.

If you dont believe, you wont get baptised.

But if you believe AND get baptised you will be saved.

But since you need moar scripture:

>Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age” (Matthew 28:19–20)


d241da No.627732

File: 8527d43dbcb886e⋯.jpg (64.02 KB, 662x712, 331:356, losing my shit.jpg)

>>627731

>>627730

STOP IT! THIS IS NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP!


59450c No.627733

>>627732

Fair enough, i'll let the Prot believe what he wants. We shall agree to disagree.


aaeccf No.627734

>>627731

There is still nothing you have posted that says baptism is a requirement for salvation but I have posted verses that explicitly debunk this doctrine.

>>627732

Don't worry, I'm done talking to him. I've already presented enough evidence for him. He just keeps ignoring my points while I debunk his.


1fca8e No.627770

>>627548

Just try out the Churches until you find one.

>>627608

>pentecostals

Heresy.


a919df No.627781

>>627731

You have to be baptized in the Spirit like it says in the Gospel of John. You are baptized in the Holy Spirit every time you with Him which should be every minute of your life. The Lord is my Rock and my Redeemer.

Selah.


5d1db5 No.628419

File: c17b8478d104cb1⋯.png (24.48 KB, 420x419, 420:419, 1522598933622.png)

>>627548

So, how did it go?


54f7dd No.628444


d241da No.628494

File: b477fbe76860619⋯.jpg (53.64 KB, 603x393, 201:131, what a shame.jpg)

>>628419

I made a mistake by going to a Russian Orthodox "Cathedral" instead of the Catholic parish as planned, hence was quite unpleased. First, the "Cathedral" was incredibly small and couldn't think of how all folk would fit into this tiny room during the liturgy, and second - even though it was expected - I became quite indignant when they all made their cross, kneeled before a picture and kissed it. Christians have infinitely greater problems than differing doctrinal practices, yet still, I could not bear the heresy and left with my friend. We did go to a museum instead but I wish we visited the Latin liturgy while we had the time.

All in all, my friend made the suggestion to visit a new church every first Sunday of the month so we can say we didn't only talk about trad qt wives, but also searched for them. That's how we will do from now on.


b09001 No.628564

>>627548

best of luck on your search


c2d975 No.628996

>>628494

Hey, I'm in Bavaria and go to an SSPX parish. Where are you from roughly?


d241da No.631612

>>628996

Hey man, thanks for coming for help but I suppose my problem is solved. Today I visited a parish for this evening mass and I liked it for the most part. Despite the heresies that are practiced the community seemed very warm to one another and for once, in a long time, I could take the service seriously. It was so serious, formal and quiet, exactly as it should be. Seems I''m goint to visit Catholic parishes for my dose of spirituality and looking out for a potential qt wife - I have my objections and disagreements with Catholic theology and doctrine, yet it is the best bet unless an independent ultra fundamental Puritan church opens in my area.


393cda No.631615

File: bdb981897cf1098⋯.jpg (113.02 KB, 1600x1113, 1600:1113, Baptist_Flag-hi-res.jpg)

Here's a list of most of the IFB churches in Germany

http://militarygetsaved.tripod.com/germany.html


675e0d No.631623

>>628996

Lucky you anon


d241da No.631625

File: c9e70474bc519c4⋯.png (221.34 KB, 1280x550, 128:55, 58dd3fc86a8488764087abed7e….png)

>>628996

Also, I googled for SSPX parishes and there is one in my very district I live in. Now I know what I'll do this month.


f0e859 No.631856

File: f3dcb3b81d4640a⋯.jpg (25.03 KB, 526x461, 526:461, gadolig.jpg)

>>631625

lucky you, to bad they are all clustered in South Germany and the Ruhrgebiert.


1195fc No.631881

File: 782ca2960d68ce6⋯.jpg (500.18 KB, 600x848, 75:106, sundayorthodoxy[1].jpg)

File: a4f7f3df84d784d⋯.jpg (61.86 KB, 720x508, 180:127, 1478357847300[1].jpg)

File: 5c762be881d64ef⋯.jpg (36.74 KB, 464x447, 464:447, begome_orthodox_2.jpg)

>>628494

<yet still, I could not bear the heresy and left with my friend

Poor deluded soul.

“We define that the holy icons, whether in colour, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honour, but not of real worship, which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature. The veneration accorded to an icon is in effect transmitted to the prototype; he who venerates the icon, venerated in it the reality for which it stands”. - Seventh Ecumenical Council


d241da No.631941

File: cc3d5d86b7276be⋯.jpg (58.45 KB, 598x792, 299:396, indentifying arguments.jpg)

>>631881

As if I give a shit which council pulls rationalizations out of its ass.


1195fc No.632011

File: a07a4f1d58015e4⋯.jpg (240.01 KB, 809x1080, 809:1080, 5607dd7c.jpg)

>>631941

Iconoclasm is paramount to denying the mystery of the incarnation. For God has appeared in flesh. To not see the significance of the icons is to already have desecrated them in your mind. To reduce them to mere dust and Cartesian atoms, devoid of meaning or significance, and not an argument would help you here. How far is this rationalistic twisting and turning from the pure mind of a child, who looks not at the matter of the icons, but trough them, and sees the events as beheld and lives with the Saints? Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


b36ae9 No.632029

>>631941

>give a shit

>out of its ass

You need to repent.

>If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

>James 1:26


d241da No.632195

File: e725dc6051da81f⋯.jpg (58.29 KB, 850x1021, 850:1021, e725dc6051da81ff9035b28e93….jpg)

>>632029

>>632011

>be you

>be total faggots

>never read the Bibble

>therefore will never know how much God hates man praying to man-made things

>"b-but muh traditional religious institution told me it's right, therefore it's obsolete what God thinks about it"

>>632043

>implying I'm Catholic


1195fc No.632214

File: 99e4d627ab0116f⋯.jpg (129.79 KB, 480x640, 3:4, Altaarretabel_Domkerk[1].jpg)

>>632195

>Implying we're praying to the thing and not its referent.

<"b-but muh traditional religious institution told me it's right,

>Implying we even need instruction in something so basic. The moment a quiet day when a child visits our church, before he even knows what reading and instruction is, the moment he sets eyes on the icons, he knows. We pass on the living Apostolic tradition, trough image and acts, trough the written Word and the spoken one.

<never read the Bibble

<look mom, I know how to read! I'm wiser than any priest! All the illiterates before me who received instruction from word of mouth and image going back to Jesus are heretics! I've tasted from the Tree of Knowledge, I can read! I need no living Word, for now it is I who breathes the life into the words. Me!

Sigh. You're projecting your materialist prejudices on the simplicity of our faith. You're in no position to judge us. An atheist is someone who takes the same skepticism, the same metaphysical "rupture" and denial a protestant has towards the sacred images, and applies it to the words of the Bible . A protestant is but one step removed from an atheist. This is a sin of ignorance, maybe pride, but not of malice. I still hope you can find your way to the Living Tradition.

https://www.orthodoxanswers.org/do-the-orthodox-believe-in-sola-scriptura-the-bible-alone-what-do-you-believe-about-tradition/


f1768f No.632216

>>627680

Reminder that having faith is a form of works.


1195fc No.632218

>>632216

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -James 2:17


d241da No.632219

>>632214

>implying I'm Protestant or belong to any denomination

>implying the true faith to God was never corrupted

>implying there are any implicit or allegorical meanings when it is stated how much God hates praying to man-made things that only priests can interpret accordingly

>implying the true faith was never perverted from its very beginning

>implying that the Teaching of the Elders was never a thing, hence implying heretical oral laws never existed

>implying your - and many other denominations - isn't like that

>posting Orthodox source to rationalize your heresies, like pottery

History is repeating itself and you are just falling for the Jewish mysticism that has been implemented into Christianity before Christianity was intstitutionalized.

I'd really like to know how your mental gymnastics let you come to the conclusion that I am materialistic and unable to see the simplicity in your faith, while I demonize your material idols and according rituals, which complicate the faith only more. Maybe it is simple for you because your indoctrination process allowed you to make these mental gymnastics.


1195fc No.632227

File: 2a65c5f99c351fc⋯.png (592.9 KB, 1185x1029, 395:343, 2a6.png)

File: 20761727a9e699a⋯.jpg (36.15 KB, 326x375, 326:375, tefillin.jpg)

File: 5e3b3cb860c2f1b⋯.jpg (283.63 KB, 614x497, 614:497, dcac5-kaaba_picture[1].jpg)

>>632219

>accusing us Jewish mysticism

This is rich. Jews are by far the most iconoclastic of all religions. Along with the Muslims, they allow no representation of their "god". It's a black cube of void, and a hatred of His creation. The incarnation changes that. Your verses of idols happen before Jesus.

Jews and muslims smash icons with a ferocity that would make you proties blush.

>while I demonize your material idols

I'm calling you materialist because you're unable to see them as anything but idols.

People like you would have denied the divinity of Jesus in His time, "for he was just a man, mere flesh, and how could a man be God?".

<all those things have been corrupted

And somehow you still think that the printed Bible alone is good and pure and uncorrected?

By all means, extend your skepticism just a little bit more. Rid yourself of "bad faith" and embrace authenticity. Take that extra step. What if the Bible too is corrupted? It was written by men and finalized 325. years before Jesus, at the first council of Niceea. What if it's wrong? Take a plunge into the dark waters of skepticism and atheism. Maybe this is what you need to help you find the right path. Or not. Good look in finding it.


d241da No.632230

File: 0342db23c9a22b1⋯.png (350.48 KB, 1000x1000, 1:1, christ-chan_with_a_gun.png)

>>632227

>Jews are by far the most iconoclastic of all religions. Along with the Muslims, Catholics, Orthodox and other non-Abrahimic pagan religions

FTFY.

>I'm calling you materialist because you're unable to see them as anything but idols

Yes, that's what an idolater would say, that your images are more than they are.

>People like you would have denied the divinity of Jesus in His time

Probably not because I would've read the scriptures, not clung onto flawed men who need forgiveness, hence would've known that he is the prophesized Messiah.

>comparing your idols to Jesus Christ

Yes, yes, they aren't your God at all. By all means, we Christians have greater problems but I am not surprised at all that all the prosperous Christian countries suffer severely now because God tolerated their trespassing for centuries. Pharisees argued the same way, and mistreated or killed the Prophets who called them out for their misdeeds.

>a collection of books that contains the perfect moral law, the history of the people who abide and abandon it, prophecies that are fulfilled when they abandoned it, and repeating themselves over and over for every nation that once knew God and abandoned Him is totally not divinely inspired but muh idols are


1195fc No.632235

File: c6a7eed76c38ecc⋯.jpg (19.75 KB, 236x360, 59:90, 815b2cf57d28cfd858919a2c13….jpg)

>>632230

>Probably not because I would've read the scriptures

So did the ancient Jews. They expected a war-like king to liberate them from the romans and bring them back to earthly power, not Jesus. They remain as they are today because they stuck rigidly and stubbornly to their scriptures and "high-learning" against the Living reality of God who walked among them. Jesus was a carpenter. And he did not recruit his disciples from the most learned rabbis of the temples. Illiterate fishermen were good enough to spread the Word of Jesus and the new covenant.

You might want to let go of your pride a little.

http://www.beingjewish.com/toshuv/real_messiah.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_in_Judaism


d241da No.632237

>>632235

>pride

>abiding by pagan traditions God hates

>feels inherently wrong in any case

You forgot that there were also Jews that died as martyrs, as well as Paul, who was incredibly literate. The ancient Jews also liked to be in charge of their corrupt and ungodly system, so there is that to consider. You can pull whatever you want, I will not bow down to any idol nor recognize them as anything but utter heresies. You ought to stop with the ad hominem psychologizing as well, stay to the matter of what is discussed, instead of trial and error of profilizing someone on a Russian bear taming forum.


1195fc No.632244

File: 9c0fb5c079fbd2f⋯.jpg (61.4 KB, 438x600, 73:100, Saint_Paul[1].jpg)

>>632237

It's not the old scriptures (there were no new scriptures yet) or literacy that converted Paul, it's the resurrected Jesus/God Himself.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. - Corinthians 15.

I doubt all that knowledge of the old laws would have been of much help. Rejecting of partaking of the Word is not a matter of literacy.

http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_OldTestamentLaw.htm


c3da60 No.632409

>>632219

>you are just falling for the Jewish mysticism

How exactly are we falling for Jewish mysticism? Can you actually explain this or is this similar criticism to when others say "you're worshiping a jew" while leaving out that Jesus negates the idea of a Jew's messiah.




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