9a4a8e No.626589
Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'
>In another interview with his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari, Pope Francis claims that Hell does not exist and that condemned souls just "disappear." This is a denial of the 2,000-year-old teaching of the Catholic Church about the reality of Hell and the eternal existence of the soul. The interview between Scalfari and the Pope was published March 28, 2018 in La Repubblica. The relevant section on Hell was translated by the highly respected web log, Rorate Caeli.
>The interview is headlined, "The Pope: It is an honor to be called revolutionary." (Il Papa: “È un onore essere chiamato rivoluzionario.") Scalfri says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"
>Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."
https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-there-no-hell
http://archive.is/V2Vio
Can anyone attest to this being actually real? Or is it just more nonsense?
d016d8 No.626591
>>626589
If it's real, he probably ceased to be pope when he uttered that.
9a4a8e No.626595
Vatican is denying it.
>A statement from the Vatican press office Thursday afternoon said: “The Holy Father Francis recently received the founder of the newspaper La Repubblica in a private meeting on the occasion of Easter, without however giving him any interviews. What is reported by the author in today’s article is the result of his reconstruction, in which the textual words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father.”
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/03/29/vatican-distances-itself-from-claim-that-pope-doesnt-believe-in-hell/
http://archive.is/yUmjj
impolite sage for bumping my own thread
cea3d7 No.626596
Do we have that on tape?
Seems fishy, I wouldn't be surprised if articles pop up about the silly traditionalists attacking the "cool" pope over fake news.
d016d8 No.626597
>>626595
Which time is it? About 162nd, the press office saying 'the pope didn't really mean that'. He obviously said it indirectly or implied it.
af85e9 No.626598
>>626595
They didn't really deny he said it, just that he wasn't quoted verbatim. They're going to have to give a better explanation than just "well, he didn't say those exact words".
9a4a8e No.626600
>>626598
>>626597
Fair enough. I have a real problem with this being this guy's fifth interview with the Pope. Why repeatedly grant interviews if he keeps misrepresenting you? I find this disturbing.
d016d8 No.626601
>>626600
I don't even care at this point, my faith is nearly dead anyway. The thing is, even if it turns out he does hold such an opinion, you can be sure the majority of mainstream Catholics will defend him.
7bfd24 No.626602
Why would the pope receive him again after previous scandals?
And to begin with why would he receive a journalist from such newspaper?
fa6377 No.626603
>>626601
Don't give up anon, some polemics are in no way a significant reason. Go to mass of the three days of Easter instead.
aac666 No.626604
>>626602
>>626600
Fifth interview with the guy? And the Vatican has previously claimed other misrepresentations of the Pope's words? Something is NOT right here…makes no sense.
d016d8 No.626605
>>626603
That's not the real reason, but it certainly does contribute to my impression it's all a darn charade and virtue signalling. The Church and the faithful have already practically abandoned the teaching on moral issues, denying hell would be just a logical step considering that. I won't go to mass, it means almost nothing to me.
d6a64c No.626607
>>626591
What if God allowing an Anti-Pope to reign is a test for the true Catholics to install a new and righteous Pope?
fa6377 No.626608
>>626605
Even if eternal punishment doesn't exist doesn't mean there is no moral. Of course christians are now extremely accommodating, that's just circumstances, it will pass. Don't give up on faith, there is nothing else anyway, only death.
a97471 No.626609
God have mercy on the Gadoligs
1ca9fa No.626610
These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the Spouse of the Immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be scattered…
ba3e29 No.626611
>>626596
With all probability it's bullshit, considering that Francis has several times, even recently, spoken very clearly about the reality and danger of Hell, and that Scalfari is known to report what he """""interprets""""" Francis to have said rather than what Francis actually said (he also said that he doesn't use notes or recording devices and writes the responses from memory).
>Our Lady foretold, and warned us about, a way of life that is godless and indeed profanes God in his creatures. Such a life – frequently proposed and imposed – risks leading to hell.
d016d8 No.626612
>>626607
Only the cardinals can do that. As far as I'm aware, those cardinals elected the current pope. No one will storm Rome, forget about that. The vast majority of Catholics are very happy with the things pope is saying, they welcome the loosened the rules. I honestly think the pope is just saying the things most people are thinking anyway. They certainly live and act like they think so.
>>626608
I meant that the Church, in practice, abandoned moral rules it has always taught. How many Catholics who use contraception and fornicate receive communion? Do you think they're even aware they should confess those sins? I'm just tired of the hypocrisy. I'm tired of listening my church going friends talk about what they did to choir girls last night. I'm tired of seeing young people who have attended religious education for more than 10 years talk and care about nothing but sex and alcohol. As I said, it's all a charade, no one cares.
aac666 No.626613
>>626611
Then it needs to be demanded of the author to issue a retraction, explicitly stating that the Pope never intimated such things, in any words. This is not complex; either the author lied, or the Vatican lied. And if what you're saying is true, it's probably the author at fault. Hold him accountable, cathbros.
d016d8 No.626617
>>626611
How can one possibly misinterpret something clear like that? If he interpreted it like that, he must have had some foundation to interpret it like that, he didn't make it up.
fa6377 No.626618
>>626612
Yes that's sad, lots don't know how to take communion, still it's their responsability, not necessarly the one of the Church (only if she don't talk about that). And yes there is a crisis and for a lot this is a charade. Be happy you can be part of the honnest believers who try to truly follow the teaching. Those who doso are part of an elite.
d016d8 No.626623
>>626618
>still it's their responsability, not necessarly the one of the Church (only if she don't talk about that)
When have you heard a priest telling people they will go to hell for contraception and fornication? Oh wait, there's no hell apparently. I'm not happy. I feel alone, abandoned. If I wanted to, I couldn't find a partner who would share my beliefs. So what is left for me? Loneliness and anguish, seeing everyone being happy and having fun while I ponder about death and what happens after it.
Honestly, I respect the protestants in that regard. At least they said screw this, these rules are too tough, we'll just split instead of acting like we obey them.
aac666 No.626629
>>626623
>blackpilling this hard
>strawmanning the reformation
Hope you feel better and find a less toxic way to express yourself.
7bfd24 No.626631
Ultimately the pope will have to answer the Lord for all the confusion he has brought up. Even if he didn't imply that and it was forged, it was the FIFTH time the pope met with that journalist.
fc4d45 No.626632
fa6377 No.626634
>When have you heard a priest telling people they will go to hell for fornication?
Not too much…. Okay, they go really diplomatic. But someone interested in his faith can clearly know it easily.
>If I wanted to, I couldn't find a partner who would share my beliefs.
Because you don't start with this belief just like that. A christian always learn, there is still hope on that.
In fact while there is life there is hope for repentance, you can always repent for fornication and contraception is admitted (universally discouraged but the really forbidden is abortive contraception), saint john paul II admitted the role of the mariage as a Remedy for the concupiscence. Now the fornication with someone else than your wife can lead you to hell but you can still confess, so it have more a progressive perverting power for the soul so lead her to the final repentance. Now if you have a real problem with hell you could read Gregory of Nyssa "the soul and the resurrection, dialogue with his daughter Macrine".
9a4a8e No.626636
>>626632
No need to be uncharitable, anon. I saw the Vatican has vaguely denied this. I never accepted it as gospel. I just don't understand why the Holy Father would grant a fifth interview with this nonagenarian atheist, who doesn't take notes, and constantly errs in his "reconstructions" of interviews with him.
fa6377 No.626637
7bfd24 No.626639
>>626632
op is not an idiot at all, that is really written on the article. The pope is to blame.
and repent: "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
234cc6 No.626641
>>626612
become orthodox :DDDD
fa6377 No.626644
6fc0c7 No.626649
>>626589
As a Pope, he didn't convert his friend?
d016d8 No.626651
>>626629
Oh so sorry for triggering you. Protestantism is easy mode Christianity, that's a fact.
>>626634
I don't want to sound, as that previous fellow said, toxic but you gave the exact reply I expected. I'm really, really tired of people constantly justifying conscious, deliberate sins. Do you truly, honestly think anyone regrets sleeping with 20 beautiful women? Or having drunken fun? You see, if a kid can cheat on a school test, he'll do it. The same goes for sin. Repentance is such a vague word, what makes it truly authentic, considering what I've said above?
If you can live it up and 'repent' afterwards, again, total charade. Because what's the reason not to do it? Of course you'll be sorry for it when you're near death and fear hell and since it's sincere you'll be saved, just like a nun who suffered infinitely more during her life.
adb35b No.626654
>>626589
another episode of fake news stories. I won't believe it until official statement.
aac666 No.626656
>>626651
>all protestants are "easy-believists"
Not true, but I don't expect a miserable, self-loathing, weak in the faith ignoramus like you to appreciate that.
93565b No.626657
>>626595
>Eugenio Scalfari, 93
Who lets this senile vampire write his own interview?
aebc1a No.626661
he can't keep getting away with it
d016d8 No.626664
>>626656
Wow, you're very full of hate for some who claims to be a Christian. You're merely proving my point about the hypocrisy of you lowlifes. But no worries, you don't even have to go to confession for hating on a brother, just say 'sorry God' and straight to heaven you'll go.
cab992 No.626668
>>626632
Based on berg*glio's history it seems most likely that he did say it and that the Vatican is once again scrambling to run cover for him.
fa6377 No.626670
>>626651
Repentance is such a vague word, what makes it truly authentic, considering what I've said above?
It's not vague, it's just that you can never know if you really had repentance (thus the necessity of the confession) :
>CCC 1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called "perfect" (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.
>Because what's the reason not to do it?
Because it will still affect your soul and your body. It doesn't justify sin, confession doesn't, but it say you can be forgiven still.
>Of course you'll be sorry for it when you're near death and fear hell and since it's sincere you'll be saved
>CCC 1453 The contrition called "imperfect" (or "attrition") is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin's ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.
A tree fall in the side it leans so the "I will repent just at the end" doesn't work. Also read the parable of the prodigal son, you sound like the older brother.
fa6377 No.626671
>>626668
Bergoglio said something about it ? link ? Or explain yourself better please.
643086 No.626675
>dude Francis is being misinterpreted
>muh official Vatican statement
>muh liberal media
>muh Magesterium
>IT'S NOT FRANCIS IT'S NOT FRANCIS IT'S NOT FRANCIS IT'S NOT FRANCIS IT'S NOT FRANCIS
aac666 No.626678
>>626664
Luckily I don't have any of the problems you yourself have already admitted to, so any hate you're sensing is a projection.
d016d8 No.626680
>>626670
>When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else
So it's simple, I start loving God or when I start fearing death after I've had my fill of women and booze. Or I simply go to confession.
>>626678
Of course you don't have problems I do because you believe the only thing you have to do to be saved is go to Church on Sunday. And that's why watching other so called Christians living their lives they live doesn't bother you either, you'll all be saved anyway after you say I'm soooo sorry before you go to bed at night.
cab992 No.626681
>>626671
This
>pope quoted saying crazy thing
>vatican rushes out 'it's not what it looks like' statement
happens too often for it to be just the media making shit up every time.
fa6377 No.626684
>>626680
You never know the moment of your death, you don't know if you will die rapidly without the time to repent and you can never know if your contrition is perfect, also love cannot go on demand in every circumstances. So just pray and ask God for love..
aac666 No.626686
>>626680
>you
You know nothing about me; I don't reveal my powerlevel because I'm not a complete 'sperg.
b3fdce No.626688
>his longtime atheist friend, Eugenio Scalfari
i definitely trust this guy over the Vatican and the Holy Father yesiree bob i am skipping Mass this Easter because of this
643086 No.626690
>>626688
Shouldn't you be concerned that the pope is a longtime friend with an atheist?
d016d8 No.626691
>>626684
The whole concept is silly. 'Quick, get to a priest before you die, it doesn't matter what you did before that, just get your ticket stamped and you're home free'
>>626686
You're a butthurt protestant, that's plenty to know about someone.
fa6377 No.626695
>>626691
Well are you protestant ? Think about that : if you have the time to confess it's because God (through his providence) has let you go to confession (or have perfect contrition). So there is no hazard, everything have a logic you just don't see, because only God can know the hearts.
0dd530 No.626696
>The absolutely state of Catholicism
4bff88 No.626697
The same friend quoted the pope saying communists think like christians.
https://onepeterfive.com/pope-communists-think-like-christians/
6d5425 No.626698
>fake news man continually misquotes the Pope
>keeps getting allowed to do it
Really makes you think
aac666 No.626699
>>626691
I'm secure in my faith, and still wish you well despite your extreme toxicity. God bless.
643086 No.626700
>>626698
And he's the pope's friend, no less.
Truly activates the old almonds.
3ff093 No.626701
>>626698
>I-it's le r-r-russia!!!!!
Catholicucks are the Hillary voters of Christianity. Quite literally in fact, too.
c57b9b No.626702
The second he makes something stupid an official dogma, we strike.
d016d8 No.626704
>>626699
Sure you are, there's nothing to be insecure about, go to church, fornicate and booze up once in a while, divorce a wife or two, say I'm sorry and go to heaven.
>>626695
Does that mean God's providence basically guarantees I'll be saved? Because seems to mean that I can sin as much as I want up to that point.
aac666 No.626709
>>626704
>fornicate and booze up once in a while, divorce a wife or two, say I'm sorry and go to heaven
There you go projecting again.
d016d8 No.626713
>>626709
Hey, that's what I see happening in protestant countries. Actually, that's how the vast majority of Christians live. Now, if you're a part of some community that is totally not like that, I apologize. Still, you have sola fide which means believe and you're saved, that's easy mode.
9297e7 No.626714
>>626664
>why are you getting angry at me insulting you?
aac666 No.626717
>>626713
>catholics don't sin
Dude…
>sola fide = easy-believism
You should really learn the basics of reformed theology if you want to make meaningful criticisms of it.
d016d8 No.626718
>>626717
I said all Christians act like that didn't I?
>You should really learn the basics of reformed theology if you want to make meaningful criticisms of it.
No confession. No rules regarding contraception, fornication, divorce, fasting, mass attendance, prayer. Should I go on? You are seriously going to argue you have more rules to follow than Catholics?
Oh, and please go on a tirade how works aren't necessary for salvation because faith saves but faith without works is dead so you still need the works, even though they aren't necessary for salvation.
>>626714
Turn teh other cheek brah.
aac666 No.626720
>>626718
>straw man
>moving the goal post
>lumping in mass attendance with grave sins
Is this a contest to see how stupid we can look in one post, because I'm not sure I can top that.
fa6377 No.626723
>>626704
No, because circumstances change because of what you do (but God's providence still do with it because he know all the way we can take).
0b7bf9 No.626727
>>626607
>>626612
>Only cardinals can do that.
You can't do that through the Magesterium. The corruption runs deeper than just one man. You guys need to through out a bunch of heretics, heretics even by Catholic standards, with any sane and godly mean necessary.
>>626718
>No confession.
You clearly don't understand what you are talking about:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/
http://www.reformed.org/documents/canons_of_dordt.html
http://www.reformed.org/documents/baptist_1689.html
Heck, look at the hub page: http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html
But of course, you clearly show you'll just ignore anything we say. "Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid." (Proverbs 12:1)
>Should I go on?
Yes, so we can laugh at you, and pray that the Lord helps you to be less haughty and foolish.
>You are seriously going to argue you have more rules to follow than Catholics?
Not about the quantity but that the rules are derived from Scripture and Scripture alone.
>please go on a tirade
And waste more of our time on you? No way!
ba3e29 No.626730
>>626668
What Bergoglio's history? He has always accepted Hell as real place.
d4d296 No.626731
(((They))) are splintering your religion. Your god's presence in this realm will wane.
93565b No.626733
>>626690
GK Chesterton was a longtime friend of HG Wells, and he was a faithful catholic writer.
f8cfd9 No.626734
Hopefully, Bergoglio's hilarious antics will translate to converts to Orthodoxy. Until then, it's fun watching all the mental gymnastics.
df8d4b No.626736
>>626589
Ok I'll become sedevacantist
bf2aae No.626755
>>626589
Not surprising at all. catholicism, not even once.
9261f4 No.626768
>current year
>people are still unironically catholic
325f5f No.626782
I am Catholic not because of the pope anyway; nice to see I was right all along: how much we are hated from inside and outside.
I will never give up this faith: we had worse popes and we survived. Call us cucks, I don't give a damn: our Lord was called a bastard and a crazy liar by the Pharisees; and His disciplines betrayed and sold Him out. In the end He is the winner upon the world, and I am just a simple follower of Him and His Church no matter her faults.
903e3e No.626783
So there is no Hell eternal due to the incapability of redemption to not save those lost to Sin , sounds normal coming from The Pope whom has more Hope than anyone of us .
47d077 No.626786
In a statement released on Mar. 29, after Scalfari's report garnered worldwide attention, the Vatican said:
>"The Holy Father Francis recently received the founder of the newspaper La Repubblica in a private meeting on the occasion of Easter, without however giving him any interviews. What is reported by the author in today’s article [in La Repubblica] is the result of his reconstruction, in which the textual words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father."
Neatly hidden at the bottom of the article. Lord, give me strength.
146d71 No.626791
How long until he says that god isn’t real?
Place your bets
9261f4 No.626793
>>626782
>we had worse popes
Who?
ba3e29 No.626795
>>626791
He won't, just as he never in an actual source said Hell isn't real, and indeed has quite vigorously and publicly opposed this idea.
e1f4f1 No.626797
>>626589
>you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species.
La Creatura…
142661 No.626798
>>626589
This man does the devil's bidding. Mark my words, this man has given himself to darkness.
142661 No.626800
0b7bf9 No.626802
>>626782
>I am Catholic not because of the pope anyway
Well, I applaud your principled stand, even if you would be better becoming Orthodox or Calvinist.
>>626786
This post-modern nonsense doesn't infect the Catholic alone. We Protestants have been dealing with liberal main-liners for awhile. We're only seeing the effects of those who abandon the One who is the Truth.
>>626791
Give a few years more or less, unless the traditionalists manage to successfully go DEUS VULT on the Vatican.
e1f4f1 No.626804
>>626791
>How long until he says that god isn’t real?
He'll say that god is a woman first.
131a3a No.626812
These threads are just a circle jerk for prots, sedes, and orthos. Anyone have the "we have this thread everyday" pic?
e1f4f1 No.626814
>>626812
>If I pretend the blasphemy isn't real, maybe it will go away.
4a7e32 No.626815
Reminder that Francis is the final pope according to St. Malachy's Prophecy of the Popes.
e1f4f1 No.626816
9a4a8e No.626818
>>626720
Not going to mass is a grave sin.
e1f4f1 No.626828
>>626664
>you don't even have to go to confession for hating on a brother, just say 'sorry God' and straight to heaven you'll go.
Now you're getting it.
>>626680
>I have to follow more arbitrary man-made rules than you, that means I'm right.
ba3e29 No.626842
>>626814
Said blasphemy comes from an extremely suspect source and contradicts everything Francis has said about Hell, so it's very improbable that it's a real view of his.
e1f4f1 No.626844
>>626842
>it's very improbable that it's a real view of his.
Then he should personally make a statement clarifying his stance.
557f4e No.626854
Vatican: Don’t trust report that Pope Francis denied reality of hell
Vatican: Don’t trust report that Pope Francis denied reality of hell
Vatican: Don’t trust report that Pope Francis denied reality of hell
Vatican: Don’t trust report that Pope Francis denied reality of hell
Vatican: Don’t trust report that Pope Francis denied reality of hell
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-dont-trust-report-that-pope-francis-denied-reality-of-hell-53450
461e77 No.626859
>>626854
Cute. But why would he give that interview in the first place if that magazine supposedly misrepresented his words before? And why on earth would Francis consider this man to be a friend?
Seems to me that either the Catholic News Agency is lying because they know what that statement would mean for his legitimacy or the pope likes hanging out with heretics that "Bear false witness".
b4fb0c No.626870
>>626783
at last ,a non-depressing comment
ba3e29 No.626884
>>626859
He has made his stance suficiently clear already, by repeatedly referring to Hell and warning people of going there (e.g. in his adress to Mafia in March 2014, or in the Lenten message for 2016), while never calling this doctrine into dispute. The same is true for other similar claims Francis supposedly made in his meetings (this one wasn't even an interview, apparently just a private meeting on the occasion of Easter) with Scalfari: they tend to contradict - and very blatantly, the supposed responses aren't vague in this respect - everything he says and preaches in public; if these positions were really held by the pope, you would expect him to either teach them or at least, even vaguely, suggest them to be possibly true or open to debate.
But you don't see this, you see Francis everywhere teaching, even emphatically, that such heresies aren't true, and the only place where you can find them said - not even alluded to, but bluntly and definitively declared - by the pope are the notoriously unreliable interpretations and reconstructions of one atheistic journalist. It's a very unrealistic story, and had it been someone else than the pope being accused here, I doubt anyone would care about it.
1caea2 No.626914
>>626608
>it will pass
This.
But the religion will be a tool of the imperial state to come.
1caea2 No.626915
>>626884
Why does this image of Jesus feel especially warm and calming?
8c21ce No.627031
>>626589
>Pope preaches annihilationism
Huh. We just had a sorely unattended thread on this >>621249 which included this line in the OP:
>Why is are these annihilationism/universalism wrong?
>inb4 muh Pope says it is
LOL
Apparently not
80a372 No.627071
>you disappear
Couldn't he have meant you disappear as in disappear to hell? You're "gone" as in lost forever because you now are in hell?
Or is that too defense force-tier?
717c29 No.627670
Lets talk real Cathbros, why are you not at least Sedevacantist yet?
1de7c0 No.627768
>>627670
because God is omniscient and the gates of hell will not prevail against it