/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

it basically asserts you don't exist which is retarded because who then is asserting that you don't exist.

>>617586

Isn’t that just zen?

>>617587

I think my mind is forever poisoned, well shit

>>617610

Ok you debunked it for me, thanks man

>>617613

no problem. I wouldn't worry about buddhism unless you're actually practicing it for some reason.

People should stick to their own religions and practices.

To paraphrase great historian - Buddhism is whore among religions that will compromise with everything that they get.

Read this from page 171

https://pl.scribd.com/doc/4464979/ON-THE-PLURALITY-OF-CIVILIZATIONS-Feliks-Koneczny-Entire-Book

>>617585

Buddhism is similar to the heresy of pelaginism where they believe through their own works they can earn salvation as opposed salvation being a free gift.

>>617647

this is true for most schools except for Pure Land Buddhism, specifically the Amida sect, which says man is too corrupt and this age is too corrupt for people to attain enlightenment via their own effort so they need to pray and have genuine faith in the salvific actions of Amida Buddha.

>>617644

that's a bit harsh

>>617585

Sure, here you go.

Buddhism is nihilism because it's all about surrender and the rejection of life in order to attain a vaguely defined sense of enlightnment which may or may not really exist and if it does it can be acquired without buddhism.

Buddhism is basically the philosophy of rejecting life for peace, which is a cowardly act fit for only the weak and the unmanly.

The only acceptable form of buddhism would be one that acknowledges the value of struggle and life, but instead we have a bunch of losers going on about how nothing matters.

There. Buddhism is a philosophy for losers who don't even want to try to make a difference. Their greatest achievement is the preservation of breathing techniques and meditation techniques.

>>617738

And burning themselves up in flames. Thanks man god bless you

>>617610

go away

If it was true, then why are there still Buddhists today? The goal is enlightenment through self-denial, and to deny the self is to deny reproduction. It's intrinsically ascetic, yet we still have Buddhists around today, which conflicts with asceticism.

Buddhist enlightenment/liberation is effectively a prefrontal lobotomy carried out with a mental ice pick. You sacrifice everything for an empty half-truth: that all things (including the self) are empty of inherent existence. This for me is where the journey begins but in Buddhism it is the final resting place.

The Buddhist form of nihilism is made tolerable by cultivating extreme emotional non-attachment (IOW cultivating low energy), whereas the likes of Nietzsche or the (post-Kierkagaardian) existentialsts retreat into various forms of insanity, or encourage suicide or the life of commitment as an escape from the intolerable emptiness of their Godless reality.

>>617585

Buddhism is the understandable mistake of a person who was artifically kept from all suffering then, suddenly, blame- life's realities were shoved in his face.

Unsurprisingly, he had a gross over-reaction to this, completely changed his life and decided suffering was so bad that one should remain detached so as to never experience it.

This is why you don't sugar-coat the world to your kids, it'll push em' towards Buddhism cause' you can't hide from reality forever. Buddhism is the religion for people with first-world problems.

Don't believe me - look at founder of Buddhism's life. Prince, experienced no suffering, saw an old man dying one day and freaked out so hard he never got attached to anything or anyone ever again.

The "better to have loved and lost than never loved at all" is the antithesis of Buddhism - they think its better not to love.

Do you people realize how many different types of Buddhism there is and what the concept of a Buddha is? Pretty much a saint tbh

>>617835

Yeah Buddhas are sort of like saints.

It should be noted that Buddha taught that your "soul" as it were because I can't think of a better way to describe it in Christian terms didn't cease existing if you became enlightened.

>>617879

except for you'll be in hell. for a long time. no cool chinese dudes with togas. just burning forever.

itsBASICALLY,,fuckin chines dudes who want to die

>>617895

You allright, mate?

>>617899

like.they are seeting thmselves on fire often

hurts

>>617884

I've seen this guys videos, makes me cringe. Did one on how Jesus went to the east before his ministry, stated it as fact when there's no evidence he did and was debunked as a fraudulent claim by the guy who first thought of it all those years ago.

>>617585

The point of Buddhism is to eliminate desire. However if you are to undertake such a task, you must first desire to eliminate your desire and if you succeed, you must desire to remain without desire.

>>617944

Disregard this post, I was being extremely disingenuous.

I've tried Buddishm before. It gives nothing.

You could have Christ in your life, but you choose the nothingness.

>>617585

>debunk it forever

So, you want to convince 500m people that their religion is false? How are you going to spread that message?

>>617821

Wonderfully put. Thanks god bless you.

>>617909

It was literally a Jewish lie lmao hahaha

Brendan O'Neill is an atheist but he wrote a good article BTFO'ing Tibetan Buddhism and its western adherents

http://reason.com/archives/2010/07/28/the-truth-about-tibetan-buddhi

My family is from a Buddhist majority country, and most of the people of my ethnicity are Buddhist. I've studied quite a bit of Buddhism and spoken to many monks, whom were really interested in speaking with me, and actually I've had much more interesting conversations with them than any priest.

First there are two books that are pretty good to check out about Buddhism:

This one speaks of a person's journey from Tibetan Buddhism to Catholicism

http://www.ahandfulofleaves.org/documents/Unexpected%20Way_On%20Converting%20from%20Buddhism%20to%20Catholicism_Williams_2002.pdf

This one (also available online) shows a western person who became a monk and realized how broken the whole system is, and how ineffective Buddhism seems. He indeed praises the work of nuns doing charity, and notices in Buddhist majority countries, the minority Catholic population is responsible for majority of charity, and even sees the nuns progressing spiritually more through their work.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33796532-the-broken-buddha

Now to the main issues:

#1 Karma is victim blaming. According to canonical scriptures (Tipitaka), anything good or bad that happens to you is because of previous actions. If you are beautiful in this life, it's because you did something good in a previous life, and if you are ugly, because you did something bad. Same with being rich, being successful, being poor etc. Buddhism claims to "remove the caste system", but that is only true in a specific sense - in the sense that one from any birth can decide to become a monk. It doesn't eliminate that if you are born in a wealthy family, it means you have done some great merit in a previous life and so on. As such, you will see in buddhist majority countries, marriage proposals heavily consider the birth of the family and all sorts of other things. Jesus replies about the blind man from birth, that it was not because of his sin, but only that the works of God to be displayed on him. If you've ever been in a bad situation, suffering horribly, also thinking that you deserve this for something you've done bad is just ridiculous and abhorrent to most people. The little child that was repeatedly molested by their parents - that child had done negative things in their past lives and got what was deserving to them. Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton being rich and popular, it's because they were very good and pious people in their previous lives.

2. Re-birth/Re-incarnation: Again according to canonical scriptures, the Buddha says that we have had uncountable past lives. He refuses to talk of the creation of the the universe, saying it's not conducive towards liberation, but also in one place in the Pali Canon he does provide some sort of creation type story. Regardless, many times it's said that we all have innumerable past lives. However in order to add some sort of urgency to it, it's said that to have a birth in an age where the teachings of a Buddha is accessible is very rare, perhaps once every 1000 births, and so we shouldn't waste this opportunity. Now to someone this might give you some sense of urgency - to anyone who doesn't know about mathematics. It has and can be proven for example, that there are *equal* number of even numbers vs natural numbers. There are also *equal* numbers of numbers divisible by 5 as natural numbers, or numbers only divisible by 1 million. If indeed we have innumerable past lives, then even if we only encountered the teachings of a Buddha once every 1 billion lives, we would be encountering them the same number of times as if it was every life. It's hard to grasp if you don't know math, but this is definitely true.

Regardless another way of looking at it is that there is truly no urgency in Buddhism. Your current life is no more important than the billions and billions, and literally uncountable other lives you've had. Each life becomes virtually insignificant, since the number of lives we've lived is claimed to be infinite. We can keep going back and find more lives apparently, it never ends. Other than just making your life insignificant, it adds a lot of complacency to life.

In buddhist majority countries, the majority of laypeople don't think of being liberated in this life at all. All they are concerned about is doing "meritable actions" that will secure them a better next life, and so on, until they can possibly one day be liberated. You don't even really need to care about liberation, since the promise is that things like wealth, beauty etc, will all be secured for you in a better life. Now this might sound alright, until you realize what the best action that a Buddhist can do is.

>>618136

Continued:

3. Feeding Monks. - Our Lord tells us "he who does to the least of them does it unto me", however in Buddhism, the best action you can do is to feed a monk. More than that, it is literally sinful for a layperson accept anything, so much as a glass of water from a monk. Monks do no work, and communities of lay buddhists provide them with unending amounts of food and money etc, because the Buddha teaches that the merit you get is based on the person that you give it to. The higher the person, the more deserving, the better, and the most deserving are Monks. When groups of "ethnic buddhists" (people from other Buddhist countries, not starbucks white hippie buddhists) come to western countries, Monks will come too, mostly because they want to give them food and offerings (almsgivings) because this is the best form of action that a Buddhist can do. It is much superior than giving to a poor person, who is a sinner, who is working off their bad deeds from previous life. This notion is also why in Tibet there was a brutal slave system, with monks at the top, because they were all to believe that if you were poor it was because of some punishments that they had to be working out. This is in contrast to Christian Nuns and Monks who dedicate their life to feeding and helping the poor and sick.

I could go on and into more detail, but hopefully these will be a few good starting points. Check out the two books I linked too - I think they can be good resources.

>>617794

Buddha said householders can get enlightened too, no need to join a monastic order or be full celibate.

>>617964

Did you give it strong and disciplined effort? Its not something you should try "part time". You'd be surprised

I'm from the West and I live in a Buddhist country. It's amazing how chill people here usually are. Their fuses are much, much, much longer. I think the command God placed on us to be passionate in our love increased our capacity for feeling and we sometimes subvert that into being passionate in negative emotions like anger and restlessness and hate, and when Westerners apostesize or form heresies they're completely overcome by that frenzy and become political radicals and whatnot, whereas Easterners are supposed to be dispassionate in general. Honestly I've learned to be calmer and less angry from these people.

The manners here are different but the morals are somewhat similar. They're much more exterior-focused, though, and they don't regard the theological virtues, except maybe a version of something like charity, but rooted in collectivist responsibility rather than love (so not really charity). Some of their morality is based on Buddhism but the other eastern religions also have an influence, and I don't care to untangle that rats' nest. What I know about Buddhism and the other religions is limited to what I learned studying them in school and I have little interest in learning more, so my observations are likewise limited. Can't comment on how to debunk Buddhism. I'm focussing on trying to give them a good impression of Christians and Christianity and Christian history and culture. I won't be getting into any apologetic debates with them anytime soon anyway. They're very interested in Western culture, and much more positively predisposed to Christianity than most Westerners are. Family and society and conformity are much, much more important here than in the West, which is a good thing in itself, but would make conversion a tall order for most people here, since Christianity is unusual and foreign, so these strengths actually come out as bad things overall.

The Christians here are the real deal. There is a big problem with heretical cults, though, but they're a drop in the ocean.

Western "Buddhists" including the ones I've met here are a total joke. They're just liberal atheists who are running from Jesus and have molded their liberal atheism into a Buddha-shaped idol that doesn't even look like Buddha. They're more like ultraheretics rather than people who have actually gone over to another religion. I don't think you can argue such people toward Christ, since their motivation is emotional.

>>618259

>permakilling yourself

There is no self to kill according to Buddhism except the false ego which is the thing that hungers for sin, feels pride and greed and gets addicted to petty distractions. The mundane self that plebs identify with… That's should be pierced and overcome

>>618222

I live in a Buddhist country too, south east asia. People are super chill but if you steal or hurt someone in public don't be surprised if a mob bashes your head in with rocks and sticks while the police just watch and nod in agreement.

Also they don't care much about animals or their well being. Oh well.

Guys just remembered something.

Alan Watts debunked it easily. It’s a “test” for Buddhists. When they think they still need enlightenment they do all this stuff and the truth is that it’s a test, as soon as you say you don’t need enlightenment you win. We are all, already enlightened. Lmao

Is meditating wrong ?

>>618263

Yeah, mercy isn't much regarded here either. The justice system in my country is pretty hardcore.

>>618279

If you’re unlucky you will become insane, so yes.

Jesus: I am the truth

Buddha: I am a truth

Christ wins

>>618279

there's a saying in zen, "best not to start, but if you start, best to finish."

>>618374

Jesus: I am the way, the truth and the life

Buddha: I am awake

Muhammad: I submit

Shankara: I am He

>>618380

Truth is found in Jesus Christ, repent or go to Hell.

>>618380

I have this feeling your name is Pajeet, or Pradesh

>>618279

look up "hesychasm"

>>618391

DESIGNATED

Fun fact: the goal is Buddhism is for the soul to perish, e.g. Hell

Lmao

>>618437

*in Buddhism

Holy shit I just read more about it and it is like the dark mirror image of Christianity

So many things are directly opposite to Christianity. This is Satan’s finest work indeed.

http://coldcasechristianity.com/2014/22-important-questions-for-the-buddhistic-worldview/

Buddhism has a dark connection to suicide rates

It is not a coincidence that the idols of the modern wicked west are attracted to Buddhism and meditation to such a degree

>>617587

>>617588

>>617766

>>618054

>>618055

>>618266

>>618307

>>618437

>>618442

>>618456

>>618458

>>618469

Well, aren't you a reactionary memester? Here's a (You), so you don't have to talk to yourself all the time.

>>618576

>Reeeeeee stop learning the truth about false religions

>>617585

"Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future" by Father Seraphim Rose.

Before coming to Orthodoxy he was involved with Buddhism and generally eastern philosophies as well as the Traditionalist School, and almost all his books and content are massive redpills.

>>618261

Nice try, again. This is not about self ego, but about absolute detachment and neutrality, which is, again permakilling yourself., so that you wont return to this world and end samsara

>>618608

Samsara is illusion. So remember even the "returning/reincarnation" phenomena isn't real and totally objective, its a mirage, a persistent mirage like seeing a rope as a snake…

>>618648

>my religion isn’t wrong!

>it doesn’t even exist haha what you do now heh guess I win tough luck pal

>>618588

Ok thanks man god bless

>>617986

As a side note the seed of Satan in the minds of people cannot be removed like in a holocaust of fire, because in this world he is the ruler. Light gives life but darkness is always there when you have no light.

“And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.“

>>618739

“And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long will you halt between two opinions? If the LORD be God, follow Him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word” (1 Kings 18:21).

>>618420

…Which should not be done without the guidance of a priest, as it encourages prelest when done incorrectly.

>>618739

Go away with your latent gnostic garbage

just saw this and it was pretty funny, guy thinks hinduism and buddhism are made by demons

Buddhism employ psychosomatic techniques of meditation that actually work and lead to silence of the mind.

They misunderstood this state of buddahood as being one with the absolute, because the lack of God gives them a false point of view on cosmology.

The risk is that, since meditation works, many people think buddhism is true. Through experimentation people are lead into buddhism.

There is no living God in the state of Nirvana, is just a preternatual experience.

>>619617

I met Klaus in person. He was a buddhist monk for years, he knows his shit and is a good man.

there is nothing funny.

>>618174

>Buddhism isn't wrong

Fuck you

>>619747

What are these psychosomatic techniques of meditation that you speak of?

>>619780

Count your breath, pay attention to your thoughts, non judgmental observation of the wandering of our mind.

Over time this leads to detachment from thoughts, de-identification from our mind. (buddhists believe there is no self, just a pattern of mechanic reactions and projections of our mind).

Once you do this you can experience thoughtlessness, or silence of the mind.

In this silence of the fake self of the mind you experience the Absolute, the highest reality: emptyness. You enter a state above thoughts, above fears, above joy, above faith too.

I want to mention how Hindus with yoga do the exact same thing, the major difference is that Hindus believe there is a fake self/soul and a true self/soul, but the true self is the same thing as the universal self or impersonal God/Absolute.

Instead buddhists believe there is no self, only the universal Absolute.

In short through silence of the mind they experience a state of transpersonal consciousness, beyond the limits of individuality. This state they mistake for what we would call the Spirit. An impersonal absolute, a state of universal consciousness where the individual self disappear.

My objection to their belief is that even if the silence of the mind can really happen, what they experience is just a preternatural state of thoughtlessness that has nothing to do with the Spirit of the living God.

It's also possible there is demonic deception at works.

The problem is that since you can get real results from these practices, many people are led astray through the "just try it" argument.

>>619939

I want to mention that certain ways of prayers in Christianity, such as Jesus prayer in Orthodoxy, can also employ methods similar to the buddhists.

In Christian prayer however these methods are accessory tools to help focus and be free from distractions, they are not the goal of prayer.

While the goal of the buddhists is to get the silence of mind, the goal of a Christian is to be heard from God, to repent from sin, to follow the commandments of God.

While they can both achieve a state of thoughtlessness the Christian gives no value to this accomplishment other than being able to pray God without distractions.

>>619939

>It's also possible there is demonic deception at works.

I went to a meditation class with "chakra" singing and "diksha giving" because one of the girl in my Religious Studies classes was giving it for free and it was the last drop in the glass that unleashed an unrestrained and previously stabilized mental illness for a week or two.

F*** new age meditation, and possibly meditation in general.

If you are a christian doesn't their rejection of the divinity of Christ and his teachings debunk it?

>>617738

Why did you leave out the part of his life where he rejected that hardcore asceticism and opted for the middle way?

>>618127

Terrible article, the same kind of guy who would giggle at Orthodox kissing icons or not fawning over Pope Francis. He doesn't even make an attempt at understanding the methodology

If you want info to break the western meme understanding of its purity see things like

https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/ or read the Broken Buddha.

>>618174

I would disagree about it being impossible, the West has actually had an interesting and arguably positive effect on Buddhist practice for the long term. The main issue is that Buddhism in the West is kind of like how East Orthodoxy was in the US during the 1800s in that it was extremely foreign and ethnic (cultural practices being tied up with theological ones). However just like Orthodoxy began moving forward so too is buddhism and you are starting to get non ethnic teachers (or those who essentially converted their ethnicity) which is when things can really start to develop.

>>619950

ehh, ironically it was through buddhist insights and meditation that I came to Christ and was able to give the bible a fair reading. Buddhism pacified my aggressive atheism and materialism and showed me there is more to life than the visible and tangible.

I never had bad experiences with the eastern religions, but eventually I reached a point where I disagreed with their final analysis of reality. But the tools they gave me are still useful.

>>619976

Not that anon but ive had a similar experience although the trouble it gives me is how easy it is to trigger what seems to be spiritual experiences in people through mechanical/physiological means. Which in turn makes it hard to trust experience at all.

Everyone from Baptists to Scientologists and even communists have been using these kinds of methods.

>>619973

> However just like Orthodoxy began moving forward so too is buddhism and you are starting to get non ethnic teachers (or those who essentially converted their ethnicity) which is when things can really start to develop.

there is no "moving forward" for either buddhism or christian orthodoxy, the idea of religious progress is a mistake. The "west" can't improve any religion, all it can do is learn how to access it.

the only thing that needs to happen is linguistic accessibility. Of course if a bunch of 1st generation Greeks or Romanians open churches in North America they will seem very ethnic and cloistered.

Jesus said "follow me" Buddha said "follow my doctrine" Jesus is God Budda is nothing more than a man Jesus resurrected Buddha is still dead

>>619983

>there is no "moving forward" for either buddhism or christian orthodoxy, the idea of religious progress is a mistake.

I meant it in the sense of it changing from an ethnic transplant to a native practice.

>The "west" can't improve any religion, all it can do is learn how to access it.

I didnt say improve it, just benefit it, through text preservation/translation (and the related scholarship) as well as simply the scope for new discussions.

Define "debunked." The only path to heaven is through Christ, in which case everything else is already "debunked." If Buddhism brings one closer to Christ, then it's a perk; it's certainly a better existence then hedonism or atheism. Biggest disappointment of atheism is that it spawns faggots instead of killers. They could go out with a bang and instead they choose to go out with three different strains of AIDS.

>>618136

>>618137

Thanks for the info and the links

About western buddhists, even the Dalai Lama said several times most of them are delusional converts who don't really know or practice correctly.

They are basically delusional people who self-identify as buddhists, without really being buddhists.

Kinda like those weird korean cults who label themselves christian.