/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>614845

Personally I don't care either way, in an ideal world people would censor their own selves of degenerating speech, but this is not the case. But if a country has it, so be it, but if it is censored by the government, so be that too.

>>614862

That is true, when degeneracy itself takes hold of power. Though in spite of that (should I ever be where that is) Christians can live as testimonies of the Lord. Showing the way by our actions, and no one, not even the devil himself, can stop that power.

>>614883

Eh, some can try. I'm not the politically fighting type. Though I can see why some would be into that, especially to express the Lord's Gospel quicker via media.

Free speech is the bedrock of free societies. It’s not necessarily Christian, it’s universal.

Freeze peaches is incredibly anti-Christian

>>614845

The free speech meme is anti-christian

>The sheeps are now allowed to lead the flock, even the stupidest one will have the right to have a mic

>The sheeps will go in every direction (no rules or it's not free speech), thus being catch by the wolf

>Free speech also means it's the power of money and lobbies, the more vicious win (aka jews)

>It also means everything can be said : anti-christian, blasphemous, against the power, against morals,…

>It's not free, it's only whitout marked rules, so whithout legitimate rules (those of the Church and the autorities)

In christianity free speech doesn't exist, only the best can lead the flock, because they have virtues and sanctity, and because they give the stability by being christian and staying in place. The flock can participate by the sensus fidei, sanctification and merits (in the clergy and in places of responsability) and the fools, the weaks, the sinners, the vicious, the heretics,… can't speak.

"Freedom" go to hell

We want only obedience to Christ

>>614974

Lies. If the government is given the power to silence certain people, it can and WILL be used against you as well.

>>614981

>Trusting human government to determine what constitutes obedience to Christ

>>615009

It do and it will always do like this. The power protect himself by any means possible. Nowadays it's by chaos and all vicious possible ways, like scandals, false oppositions, infiltration, gate-keeping…

>Trusting human government to determine what constitutes obedience to Christ

No, but (((freedom of speech))) won't make this either, instead it destroy everything, it's just a tool in the hand of the elite.

>>615012

A lack of a freedom of speech is far worse. Take a look at the UK, or Germany, or China, or the Middle East. Giving the government the power to silence certain groups will always backfire. Bending over and spreading your ass cheeks won't make it better.

>>614845

Free speech is a sin against the thou shall not bear false witness. Speech must always be tempered by truth follow God's law. It is a sin to speak wrathfully or lustfully etc.

>>615014

Don't take me wrong, I know the shit the modern states are doing against the truth and christianity. But They always were satanic, you can't blame them from playing their game. They were against the Church, so for them freedom of speech is freedom of fighting the religion.There should only be the freedom for the Church. But freespeech is about fighting the Church through chaos/relativism by multiplicating the number of antagonist,… It's only freedom against the Church, the moral, tradition, the past,…

>>615015

>Free speech is a sin against the thou shall not bear false witness.

> Speech must always be tempered by truth follow God's law.

So free speech is like free-will, we do have it and should have it, but should use it wisely.

>>614845

Actually, against it in the absolute sense.

It's an outgrowth of the Reformation - the principal of personal interpretation of Scripture extended from just theology to everything else. Once Luther made truth a matter of opinion, it was only a matter of time before people rejected God entirely. Now, they even reject Science, Math, Economics and Aesthetics. Hell, the whole identity politics nonsense is rooted in rejection of themselves!

I think it's why the Church is struggling so hard - forgot getting people to believe in God, they don't even believe in the concept of Truth. It's Nihilism taken to the final end. You can't reason with someone who actively rejects the very foundational concepts required to be functional human beings.

So yeah, I'd say it's a slippery slope. And I think the past few centuries or on my side on this. You can differences of opinion about which ice cream you like, which job you prefer etc. But not whether 1 + 1 = 2, or the nature of the Trinity. Outside of specific experts who are extensively trained in the field who are developing truth further in a rigorous way, lay people need to defer to the experts.

Of course, the world is so screwed now you wouldn't be able to make it work. I have Faith in God, but we might just be the unfortunate souls living in another Rome about to fall to degeneracy. Maybe the next civilization will do better, unless Christ returns first.

>>615009

>modern governments are absolute shit so we have to just let people do whatever they want regardless of how immoral it is

Some things should be punished, such as bearing false witness and blasphemy, as scripture has said they are worthy of punishment. This is contrary to freedom of speech

>>615030

False witness is not covered by any 'free speech' laws. Lying to a judge is everywhere a punishable offense. Stop equivocating the two.

I am all for free speech in set bounds of what is free. For true freedom is not "free to do what one wants" but "free to do what God wants". Thus if I was to set bound on freedom of speach, I would criminalise degenerate sepach, heresy, blasphemy and all that stuff in public area.

>>615076

I've heard this on here and never understood it or had it explained. what's wrong with some set rules on how we treat each others as humans?

>>615264

>what's wrong with some set rules on how we treat each others as humans?

Absolutely nothing. The Bible has a good set of rules to follow. The problem is, we no longer live in Christian nations.

I doubt any here would care about free speech if we lived under a Christian monarch. We don't though, and those advocating for a removal of free speech are the exact people we would not allow to speak their blasphemies against Christ. Removal of free speech in our highly judaized societies would absolutely make spreading the gospel illegal. Christians would be villainized and demeaned even more than they are now, and this removal of free speech will be taken to the extant that not committing blasphemy would be considered hate speech.

>>614845

It depends on the speech.

Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are condemned heresies and evil to believe in.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9syll.htm

t. Pope Saint Leo XIII

Our Lord doesn't forcibly stop people from blaspheming. why should we?

If there were laws against what you consider to be "degenerate" speech, that would only serve to cause those who aren't Christians to resent the faith even more. Not to mention, its good to know who your enemies are. Let them speak.

>>615329

>Our Lord doesn't forcibly stop people from blaspheming. why should we?

Who are the (((people))) that even implied lack of free speech would ever mean such a thing in CY + 3? It would mean the exact opposite. The people who are most fervently against free speech are the same ones who murdered God Himself. Just look at how many countries you can go to prison in, for denying any aspect of a historical event that's verifiably been lied about more than any other, even according to the official narrative.

>>615329

>Our Lord doesn't forcibly stop people from murdering . why should we?

See how this works?

>>615388

>blasphemy

>on the same level as murder

Nice try bud

>>615025

Free speech as commonly defined is being allowed to say anything without fear of imprisonment by temporal powers. Indeed speech is tied to the will and that free will is necessary for humans to share in God's creation. However God has set out the laws for us not the break, he has set punishments to those who do not conform their will and their speech to his. In God's kingdom only those who wish to speak God's will are there, those who wanted free speech are in hell.

>>615412

I'm certainly willing to avoid using God's name in vain or other blasphemies. I just don't believe people should suffer legal consequences for what they say.

>>615033

False witness isnt limited to a judge in court. You're ignoring blasphemy, or any other sin that is covered by free speech like lying.

"Human rights" are atheistic, enlightenment era values that are completely un Christian

>>614845

A local, if at all, minimum of political energy.

>>615422

>You're ignoring blasphemy

>if you disagree with any of my theological beliefs das bwasfamee and you should be killed for it

you dont convert people by pointing a gun at their face, you convert people by telling them the truth and let them discern for themselves. violence only breeds secessionism and dissent in the hearts of the victims, to paraphrase deus ex

Jesus didnt teach violence and to preach to people while they're looking into the barrel of a gun. thank God the catholic church doesnt run the world anymore

>>614845

America has taught us that free speech is too destructive. While we can't let the federal government enforce speech as they will abuse those laws, we can't have a hands-off approach either. Blasphemy, pornography, careless speech, foul obscenity, preaching lies and heresies, "the marketplace of ideas" bs: these all have done so much damage to our society. And don't get me started with businesses acting like the state and stifling good speech without any repercussion, because "muh free market".

>>615329

>Our Lord doesn't forcibly stop people from blaspheming.

He doesn't forcibly stop genocide or abortion either. I wonder why…

Romans 13

>>615398

>Y-y-yeah

>Y-y-your reductio ad absurdum i-is stupid

>See, haha, I just say it's w-wrong and i-it's wrong

>>615009

>Lies. If the government is given the power to silence certain people, it can and WILL be used against you as well.

The sinfulness of man will make anarchy or tyranny inevitable if they are not redeemed. What matters is what should Christians be preaching as moral politics, and God is not pro-first amendment, at least in it's modern interpretation.

>Giving the government the power to silence certain groups will always backfire

If not the state, then my neighbor will become the busybody and stifle my speech some way. What part of "the heart is deceptively wicked" do you not understand? It does not matter how sinners will abuse a law or commandment. We must obey God no matter the risk of that obedience. The law is good if used rightly. (1 Timothy 1:8)

>>615627

>if you disagree with any of my theological beliefs das bwasfamee and you should be killed for it

That strawman

>you dont convert people by pointing a gun at their face,

Nobody is talking about conversion. Don't bring irrelevant points in here.

>violence only breeds secessionism

Joshua would like a word with you. Hell, the lack of violence brought secessionism amongst the early Israelites. When violence did bring secessionism, it allowed for it was from God Himself (1 Kings 12:24).

>inb4 B-b-but muh OT v NT

Get over it. Spouting off worldly, pietistic sayings to prove your point instead of actual Scripture shows you don't truly understand what you claim to believe, the morals, the worldview, or the doctrines.

>Jesus didnt teach violence

<Believe in me or go to hell.

<Not one stone will be left unturned

<Something something whipping the money changers

<…the one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.

> thank God the catholic church

This is not just a Catholic thing.

t. Reformed theonomist

>>615076

Human rights are unbiblical. But free speech is very biblical. You can blaspheme all you want, it is your choice, God does not prevent you from doing it, only your punishment will be great if you do so.

>>615641

yeah dude, ur right. we should go out and murder and imprison people who disagree with our theological opinion just like the catholics did. thats totes mcgoats what Jesus was preaching the entire time, eks dee

/sarcarm

>>614845

Christianity is divine and so will never be displaced by the market of ideas, so valued it's teachings are.

It's a fundamental human right that is God-given. Speech should never be censored through force, but it should be curtailed through discipline and societal pressure.

Galatians 5:13:

>For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another

>>615421

What about if someone commands someone to murder someone? What if someone lies about about a contracted transaction and sells you poison instead of food? This is freedom of speech. Your position is untenable unless you are a full blown anarchist.

Freedom of speech is not itself a natural right, but it is necessary to protect freedom of conscience, which is a natural right.

>>614845

Free speech is a useful tool for societal harmony. Amercan bill of rights and such are a meme. The reason free speech should work is because under a monarchy the average person has no power so their opinions are not a threat to the establishment. And since there's no need to curb free speech in a monarchy, people are not afraid of each other and snitches leading to prosperous and carefree relationships.

>>615982

this

>>616056

Fraud isn't protected by the first amendment. As for the first scenario, the person being commanded still chooses whether or not to obey the command. Free speech didn't force them to commit murder.

You're really reaching here.

Tired: Freedom of Speech debate

Wired: Freedom of Religion debate

>>614845

Freeze peach is very important because even though it ensures everyone's right to say the wrong thing it also ensures your right to say the right thing. And if freeze peach goes, I assure you, that your right to say the true and right thing is the one that will be taken away first.

>>614845

Our nieghbor was talking to our girls (around age 9-10) and telling them God isn't real. He is also a wiccan.

He's not a bad dude hell he was one of the only nieghbors to help us find my sister when no one else did. but ever since his girlfriend went court over custody of his child he's gone batshit insane.

>>617011

>Tell that to Nicholas II of Russia.

What, the man who gave people the Duma after the 1905 revolution, which probably did more to greelight further anti-monarchical activity in the empire than the Revolution itself did?

Alexander II would have been a better example for you to use.

>liberate serfs

>help orthodox bretheren abroad by removing kebab

>begin modernisation of Russia in earnest

>get murdered by protofedoras

Free speech can be used against the word of God, so it is wrong

>>614845

>What does /christian/ think of free speech?

I hate you America.

>>615015

Nowadays those who tell the truth are persecuted for ' da hate speech.

Liars are rewarded. The only way to get the truth out is to push free speech for everybody not just certain minorities.

So i do not see where you're getting anyway with this. In the long run the Truth will triumph. The only reason why to ban 'hate speech' when people are massacred on streets is to hid the truth.

So no. Free speech is not a sin as long as you tell the truth. Especially when the biggest liars do the fact checking to persecute those who say anything 'insulting' it is pretty retarded to trust then to 'follow God's law' in this respect.

>>615683

>>615982

this.

>>615030

Implying this will be used against liars and blasphemy.

You haven't been paying attention who gets charged for hate speech right? Try to read the news sometimes to get the idea who's actually in charge.

*Spoiler alert*: It's not Christians. So do not expect restriction of blasphemy.

kek.

>>617925

> X can be used against the word of God, so it is wrong.

This can apply to any and every thing.