/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>>/pisslam/

>>606560

i dont understand what you're implying or saying exactly

paul and Jesus contradict eachother very often. i was asting why is this Christian killing Jesus-contradicting guy even in the bible

if you're implying that the gospels are changed and wrong and that paul is right, then we should throw out all the 4 gospels of Jesus and just listen to paul?

the same goes for paul being wrong and throwing out all the pauline doctrine and letter and just listening to Jesus

i can respect the idea that the curent gospels are corrupted and arent the genuine ones, but i need to study it more and find evidence of gospels that contradict what our current gospels say

i guess theres gnostic documents out there, but im not ready yet to dive into gnosticism

>>606562

fuck off my face shill, im not some moohamed pedo worshiper, im not a muslim. just because i dont agree with the modern canon doesnt mean im islamic

Well Just from the first objection this guy clearly has no idea what he is talking about and is exactly the kind of person who is in need of Paul's theological exposition. As we know idols are by their nature things that do not exist, they are things humans make up in their own head. Therefore the sin of eating meat offered up to idols comes from the fact that you think the idol is real and you participate in its worship. This is why he says that we shouldn't eat meat that we "Know" are sacrificed to idols, but if you have no knowledge then it is fine since the power of the idols comes from the person making it.

*blocks your path*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=masFXApk6nM

>>606563

Paul doesn't contradict Jesus. What's amazing is that everything he says is consistent with the gospels - you can almost always point to a saying of Jesus that Paul is extrapolating.

Paul's epistles apply Christ's teachings in specific instances and, thus, help us learn to apply them. I really don't see the contradictions you're talking about. I had a friend who had the same opinion as you and I went through all the supposed contradictions - they're not real, only on a surface level reading, out of context and without an understanding of the gospel message.

>>606577

>I went through all the supposed contradictions - they're not real, only on a surface level reading, out of context and without an understanding of the gospel message.

Could you post some reliable source that explains the context and gospel message, please?

>>606584

how to have colors on the id's?

>>606584

>>606576

Amen.

>>606586

Go to the top right of the screen, where it says [Options], then look for a checkbox which says 'Color IDs'

>>606572

0:40-0:54

"and everything paul preached is in perfect harmony with what Jesus Christ preached"

eks deeee XDDDDDDDD

john and matthew contradict eachtoher in that matthew is a very jewish centered works based salvation gospel where if u sin ur out and john has more emphasis on "if u believe ur gucci" sort of doctrine

Matthew 25:31-46

goats to go hell and sheep go with Jesus

explicite attention and emphasis to the behaviour action of the goats and sheep is mentioned here. BEHAVIOR AND ACTION

parable of the wheat and the tares, once again the bad ppl go to hell

Matthew 13:24-30

First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

>>606576

im glad that you disagree with me, hopefully you can rebuke me.

>He go to Apostles and was accepted

wasnt james arguing with him on doctrine and how "faith without works is dead"?

James 2:14-26

there was only 12 apostles

Revelation 21:14

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

>Considering that one fourth of what you know about what Christ said is from Paul scribe, then yeah, no.

what difference does it make how much paul wrote? if i make all sorts of non-sence about Jesus and made my own bible, how is the volume of my works an arguement for their validity?

>In the same way Christ did - he fulfilled it.

you're implying here that all the laws are done away with when Christ shows up

matthew 5:17-18

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

>Thos "superapostles" were not THE apostles you fucking mutt. learn how2read

paul was refering to Jesus's original 12 disciples, which are also commonly refered to as apostles by a lot of schollars. paul was NOT one of the original 12 and mocks the 12 as "super apostles" and says how his miracles should deem him as an apostle

matthew 7:15-23

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

paul's fruits were contradicting Jesus and killing people. sounds sketchy af to me tbh

>But wait, there is more, for Matthew (16:18) and John (21:17) accept Peter authority to declare this kind of stuff

yes, but in 1st or 2nd peter the writer refers to paul as "brother paul" and accepts his doctrine as a genuine one. the only problem is its a forged document

https://ehrmanblog.org/another-forgery-in-the-name-of-peter-for-members/

https://ehrmanblog.org/tag/letter-of-peter-to-james/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToyUPCAtwiY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yor0r6ZvzhY&t=11s

im not the only person saying this. theres so much contradictions, just search a bit. getting angry and covering your eyes wont make them go away.

>So John's stuff and Matthew gospel have to go too

hhhmmm…. i dont know about that, but a ton of the new testament disagrees with eachother.

>>>/judaism/

>>>/hell/

>It's all the same place.

actually according to your logic im saved because i believe in Jesus

>>606593

pharisee

>>606543

Only those who accept the current canon are christians

If you reject Paul you are a muslim

>>606597

feel free to call yourself and call me whatever you want. im just showing you that paul regularly contradicts Jesus and his serial-murder claims to be Jesus's disciple when he never even met Jesus

this is Jesus on the law and the old testament and how important it is

"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law." (Luke 16:16-17 NIV.)

meanwhile paul is out here preaching sweet lies to you gulible emotional goyum brainlets

Romans 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Ephesians 2:15

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Colossians 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

2 Cor. 3:11-17, Romans 7:1-3 et seq, and Galatians 3:19 et seq. The Law is "abolished," "done away with," "nailed to a tree," "has faded away,' and was "only ordained by angels…who are no gods."

im just copy and pasting from Jesuswordsonly.com they conviniently dug through all this horseshit and gave me the passages already. once again, paul repeatedly throws the law in the trashcan

>>606597

not to mention, by that logic, if i write my own non-sense book about magical squirrels and rainbow unicorns, and i just write tons of literature, i could claim im the true christian and anyone who doesnt believe me is a muslim

call me what u want but u cant say im wrong

>>606593

>paul's fruits were contradicting Jesus and killing people. sounds sketchy af to me tbh

What's funny is that "fruits" in that passage is generally used to refer to the followers of the prophet, not the teachings. Judge Christ by his apostles, judge Muhammad by his Ummah, etc. Paul's followers included Peter and Luke, so I judge Paul positively based on that

>>606543

>>606563

>>606593

>>606600

please

stop

spacing

everything

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this

it's

just

irritating

and

it's

easier

to

read

when

everything

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single-spaced

like

this

>>606606

FUCKING THIS

All those reddicucks… not a secret why there is so much liberals on /christian/ nowadays.

>>606604

fruits is a reference to the works and behaviour. the tree is the person and the fruits are its works and actions and deeds

"you shall know them by their fruits" is a reference to their behaviour and action. matthew 7:15-23 that i quoted in a previous post expounds on this as well.

http://www.pahanalives.com/barrenfigtree.html

I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:4-5).

>>606606

>>606608

whine harder u obnoxious bootlicking grammar nazis. who cares how i express myself, what you should be concerned in the actual message, not how i deliver it

funny thing is i never even go on reddit EVER, its just that its always u annoying character-attackers who insult my delivery style. how about you argue the points i made instead? hm?

about how paul is a false prophet and how this serial-murder shouldn't be in the bible?

>>606608

>not a secret why there is so much liberals on /christian/ nowadays

but my message is Jesus's message; which is an extremely jewish one and its defending the old testament, which is as far as you can possibly get from being a liberal doctrine

but attack my writing style more if it pleases you, u annoying cucks

>>606614

No capitalization, "u" instead of "you", and zero reading comprehension. Just when I thought I was going to have a Muslim-free day.

>>606614

Let me just fix this for you

>>606604

"Fruits" is a reference to the works and behavior. The tree is the person and the fruits are its works and actions and deeds. "You shall know them by their fruits" is a reference to their behavior and action. Matthew 7:15-23 that I quoted in a previous post expounds on this as well.

http://www.pahanalives.com/barrenfigtree.html

"I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:4-5).

>>606606

>>606608

Whine harder you obnoxious boot-licking grammar Nazis. Who cares how I express myself? What you should be concerned in the actual message, not how I deliver it. The funny thing is that I never even go on reddit, but you annoying character-attackers insult my delivery style for being reddit-like. How about you argue the points I made instead, about how St. Paul is a false prophet and serial-murder who shouldn't be in the Bible?

>>606608

>not a secret why there is so much liberals on /christian/ nowadays

My message is Jesus's message; which is an extremely Jewish one. The message I have is defending the Old Testament, which is about as far as you can possibly get from liberal doctrine. Just ignore all that and attack my writing style more if it pleases you, you annoying cucks

>>606617

once again, more superficial character attacks with no substance to your post

maybe if you bootlick your university english teacher long enough you'll get a perfect 100% in the class, which means with your SUPERIOR GRAMMAR AND SPELLING you will instantly win every argument and debate because without proper spelling and grammar usage all posts are invalidated

>>606618

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

thanks, i actually laughed. if i had a fedora i'd tip it

but i like typing the way that i type

by the way, i failed the english entrance exam in community college so i was put into remedial english. then i went to fail remedial english 2 semesters in a row before dropping out, and i was honestly trying

im unironically bad at using words. but i was good at math, however

>>606619

Here's a good guide for you

>>606592

thanks

is there an upvote button too?

>>606619

>once again, more superficial character attacks with no substance to your post

Not superficial at all. It demonstrates that you are willfully stupid and lazy, which is probably why you can't be bothered to cross-reference Paul's letters with Jesus' teachings.

>>606643

>Christ speaks about Moral law. Not juridical law that by it's nature is bound to times and places

k well i disagree i think he's talking about the old testament here. dispensationalism cognitive discordance at it's finest

>that by Law man is saved, but by working faith in Christ

the young rich ruler when he came and asked Jesus what must he do to go to heaven, Jesus starts quoting moses's 10 commandments

the amount of cognitive dissonance and mental contortionism in your post is mind boggling. like you ACTUALLY THINK Jesus isnt talking about the old testament laws here. you're literally mocking me for following the law as Jesus said to do, by calling me a jew, which i am btw

>You have to prove first part

read my post here? >>606600

paul time and time again says the laws are to be done away with and that they dont apply to people anymore after Jesus

why will Jesus spit people who work inequity out of we're not under the law anymore?

matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

>That's bullshit and you know it

no, i wouldnt have referenced the idea if i thought it was wrong. just because it makes you pout and whine doesnt mean its valid. theres lots of parts of the bible that simply shouldnt be there, like the woman caught in adultery in john and the longer ending of mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5QFsGu2Cao&list=PL9xmU6ojAnjj09nFPcDs2JQP2hqzoNR6o&index=6

> and about second again I quote myself: And Abraham was idolator before he was called, Matthew was tax collector, Mary Magdalene was a whore etc et

yeah, Christ came to call sinners out of sin and to repent

matthew 9:13

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

stop sinning and breaking the law, Jesus says. "one jot or one tittle" he's talking about WRITING and WORDS

i mean i tried, i guess. if at the end of the day you think you're saved just cause you believe in Jesus and the law doesnt apply to you, then i have no thing else to say. by that logic everyone who believes Jesus is saved no matter what, lol what a joke. im telling you by Christ's words you ARE under the law and you're delusion and refusal of following the law will get you by CHRIST'S definition in the new testament burning in hell

you hate jews and yet simultaneously your messiah was a jew.

?????????

>>606646

It was Jesus who declared all foods clean, not Paul. It was Peter who reaffirmed it further with his vision of the table. What’s more likely to you; Jesus taught rigid obedience to the law but Peter, Paul, and even Jesus himself later corrupted the message; or maybe you just misunderstand that passage and what it’s saying?

>>606649

but Jesus came to step up the message of the old testament, not lower it

matthew 5

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

hes saying here to the stuff written in the law

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Jesus's interpretation of the law is not one of removing, but to step it up radically. his interpretation of the law is one of radical faultless obiedience. hes saying dont even be ANGRY with people, let alone not kill

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

once again more radical law keeping. dont even look at a women lustfully. verses 29-30 encourage you to cut off bodyparts if they cause you to sin just so you can avoid breaking the law. this is extreme law keeping

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

more radical law keeping. dont keep oaths or swear by anything, dont ever get married again after divorce. hes raising the standards of the law, not lowering them

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

"turn the other cheek". dont even strike your assaulter back. more radical faultless law keeping

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

more radical righteousness and law keeping

>>606651

Jesus declared all foods clean. Kosher law was part of the law, and he declared all foods clean

>>606654

yes, he also ate on the sabbath. i dont know why he did this or what the correct response is to this retort. this is Jesus contradicting himself, so the question fundamentally question's Jesus's behavior and validity

but all i hear from Jesus is to follow the law radically

>>606655

So Jesus contradicted himself, his sacrifice meant nothing as we are still slaves of the law, Paul is a false prophet, and as >>606576 pointed out, the whole NT is gone if you remove trust in Paul. How are you even a Christian?

>>606669

>Jesus contradicted himself

yes, but just because he did doesnt invalidate him. there are lots of people with lots of different interpretations of why he did the things he did, all of this is beyond my comprehension and understanding of the bible

>his sacrifice meant nothing as we are still slaves of the law

now this i strongly disagree with, i never said this

>Paul is a false prophet

yes i think so, guy literally contradicts Jesus every time he opens his mouth

>and as >>606576 pointed out, the whole NT is gone if you remove trust in Paul

a lot of books in the NT are gone, but the ones with Jesus remain. I DONT KNOW WHICH BOOKS SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT AND WHICH SHOULD BE KEPT. all of this is beyond my understanding of the bible. but i had to make a thread simply to point out the glaringly obvious contradictions between paul's word and Jesus's word

paul contradicted Jesus to such an extent that i dont see how anyone can follow the 2 and keep the words of both. Paul does away with the law, Jesus keeps the law. you either pick one or the other. and i dont see how the size and volume of a piece of literature gives it credibility

>How are you even a Christian?

by following the words of Jesus

>>606646

>k well i disagree i think he's talking about the old testament here.

Even the most hardocre of Jews do not call of OT Law. Law is Torah, five books of Moses. Rest are prophets or psalms or wrritings or wisdom &c.

>dispensationalism cognitive discordance at it's finest

I am Supersessionism, for this is Catholic doctrine more or less.

>the young rich ruler when he came and asked Jesus what must he do to go to heaven, Jesus starts quoting moses's 10 commandments

And he said also that those who believe in him shall be saved. And that those baptised shall be saved. And that those who repent shall be saved. Et cetera et cetera. Salvation is not so simple, but it can be sumaraised in "faith working through charity" - "If you love me you will keep my commandments"

>the amount of cognitive dissonance and mental contortionism in your post is mind boggling.

Say man who quotes Paul's gosepl against Paul.

>. like you ACTUALLY THINK Jesus isnt talking about the old testament laws here.

Thou shalt not bear false witness.

I said that Jesus say about moral law. Moral law that was given to all of Israel in fire and thunder at mount sinai, that was kept on stone tablets in the Ark aka decalogue.

>paul time and time again says the laws are to be done away with and that they dont apply to people anymore after Jesus

So did Christ.

Neither do they put new wine into old bottles. Otherwise the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish. But new wine they put into new bottles: and both are preserved.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda:

>why will Jesus spit people who work inequity out of we're not under the law anymore?

Moral law is eternal nigga. By definition. Rest of law is not. By defintion.

>no, i wouldnt have referenced the idea if i thought it was wrong. just because it makes you pout and whine doesnt mean its valid. theres lots of parts of the bible that simply shouldnt be there, like the woman caught in adultery in john and the longer ending of mark

<I trust my own judgment than ancient witnesses who lived when original copies were still alive and well.

I trust Saint Doctors more than random youtubers.

>yeah, Christ came to call sinners out of sin and to repent

Like he called Paul.

>stop sinning and breaking the law, Jesus says. "one jot or one tittle" he's talking about WRITING and WORDS

But the is speaking about law that he written himself at Sinai, not Moses.

Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

>i mean i tried, i guess. if at the end of the day you think you're saved just cause you believe in Jesus and the law doesnt apply to you,

I hope so. Becuase Jesus told me this when he gave his blood to apostles and they gave it to me through priesthood of Melchisedec.

>then i have no thing else to say. by that logic everyone who believes Jesus is saved no matter what, lol

Jesuits were right there is no difference between Jew and a protestant. Iks kurwa de.

>m telling you by Christ's words you ARE under the law and you're delusion and refusal of following the law will get you by CHRIST'S definition in the new testament burning in hell

I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee.

Says Christ to churches. About Jews. Who kept law.

You fucking judaisers will burn and this will be great joy in heaven because of it.

>you hate jews and yet simultaneously your messiah was a jew.

My messiah was God in flesh. Flesh immaculate from immaculate Mother, from line of David. If there was good jews, they followed their King and God. Like Paul.

>>606676

>Says Christ to churches. About Jews. Who kept law.

>You fucking judaisers will burn and this will be great joy in heaven because of it.

hmmmmmmmm……… i actually think about that alot. isnt that fucked up? you tried your hardest to follow the religion you believe to be true in the best way that you could, and you still end up in hell

its kinda hard to mentally handle. i like reading super antisemetic biblical commentary from oldschool racist guys, they argue strongly against the jews. from one point of view i love them because they arent mentally cucked and express whats on their mind, but from another of course they all hate me simply because im jew

i dont know, its so hard. like my opinions on paul still havent changed and i still believe he shouldnt be in the bible, but its possible i could be wrong, i think. its hard to discern whats the correct theological doctrine with so much noise existing, someone is bound to be wrong, most likely me

my attitude towards the subject is even if i do go to hell, i will have the pleasure of knowing that 1. hell exists 2. other people who deserve to be burning in hell are also suffering

if an omnipotent God judges my life and actions and deems it correct to send me to hell i cant argue with him, just that simple. but atleast i will have the pleasure of seeing SOME degree of justice in hell

>>606684

>hmmmmmmmm……… i actually think about that alot. isnt that fucked up? you tried your hardest to follow the religion you believe to be true in the best way that you could, and you still end up in hell

All humans have enough reason and evidence to conclude monotheism. Jews have Scripture that tells them that Christianity is right. They are voluntary leading themselves to hell.

>its kinda hard to mentally handle. i like reading super antisemetic biblical commentary from oldschool racist guys, they argue strongly against the jews. from one point of view i love them because they arent mentally cucked and express whats on their mind, but from another of course they all hate me simply because im jew

Glad that you admitted it. Now do yourself a favor, cooperate with Grace of God and let the Paul, who was disciple of one of greatest Jewish rabis and he himself was trained in judaism from childhood to tell you, that Christ is salvation, and by faith in him you can be saved as Abraham was.

>i dont know, its so hard. like my opinions on paul still havent changed and i still believe he shouldnt be in the bible, but its possible i could be wrong, i think. its hard to discern whats the correct theological doctrine with so much noise existing, someone is bound to be wrong, most likely me

Oh it's easy. Christ tells us exactly how to deal with this stuff:

And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Start here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

Or better yet, here: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0128.htm

>my attitude towards the subject is even if i do go to hell, i will have the pleasure of knowing that 1. hell exists 2. other people who deserve to be burning in hell are also suffering

But when your eyes will close and you will stay before God in glory, don't tell him that you was not warned.

>>606579

Find me a supposed contradiction and I'll reconcile it with the gospel. No one ever handed me a list, I've just had various conversations like:

"Well Paul says X and Christ would never"

"Actually, Christ says X here, Paul's just applying it"

He saw Christ and I doubt OP can say the same. He was a great man and a good servant.

>>606543

What? Jesus prevented him from persecuting Christians.

>>606600

Read the book entirely instead of reading out of context quotes, then you'll see why we think the way we do.