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File: 6e23a7c15b4e7ad⋯.jpg (51.95 KB, 474x656, 237:328, prophet_enoch.jpg)

eb6592 No.603591

Hi /christian/ I'm a first time poster here.

What is your opinion of The Book of Enoch?

05a832 No.603593

>>603591

Not canonical, thus irrelevant


eb6592 No.603600

>>603593

I feel as if it's true.

Why do you let other men declare which books are "canon" and which are not?

I now declare Enoch 1&2 Canonical. With the Gospel of Thomas as well.

Now what's your opinion of The Book of Enoch?


3274f2 No.603603

File: 59d785c15161533⋯.jpg (73.37 KB, 960x719, 960:719, 59d785c15161533a9b925f22ba….jpg)

>>603600

>Why do you let other men declare which books are "canon" and which are not?

>I now declare Enoch 1&2 Canonical. With the Gospel of Thomas as well.


eb6592 No.603605

>>603603

Ethiopian Orthodox consoders Enoch 1 canon as well as The Book of Jubilees.

>>603593

>>603603

Have either of you read it?


b9c9ad No.603608

>>603600

There's a lot of theological issues with the Gospel of Thomas, there's some error in there.


eb6592 No.603610

>>603608

Other than the last verse which is debated to have been added on later, can you please tell me which quotes of Jesus are in error? Many are duplicated throughout the other gospels, are you saying the quotes that have no other sources are errors?


5b2fde No.603612

>>603600

And thus, anon was banned for being Gnostic by his second post.


5686a4 No.603615

>>603600

>Why do you let other men declare which books are "canon" and which are not?

Books are canonical because of their liturgical use and how common they were among the early churches.

In other words, unless you're Ethiopian or Eritrean Orthodox, there's no reason to think they are canon. You don't use them liturgically.


ad9502 No.603617

>>603605

>Ethiopian Orthodox consoders Enoch 1 canon

With their standards it's a wonder they haven't declared "become a better you" canonical yet


c1a6dd No.603621

It's pretty tough to reconcile statements like

>Jesus said to them: If you fast, you will beget a sin for yourselves; and if you pray, you will be condemned; and if you give alms, you will do an evil to your spirits. And if you go into any land and travel in its regions, if they receive you eat what they set before you. Heal the sick among them. For that which goes into your mouth will not defile you, but that which comes forth from your mouth, that is what will defile you.

Which can be understood in a context that isn't that much of a problem given verse 104, but it's sketchy. There are other problems too

>(49) Jesus said: Blessed are the solitary and the elect, for you shall find the kingdom; for you came forth thence, and shall go there again.

Seems to assert the preexistence of souls.

>(77) Jesus said: I am the light that is over them all. I am the All; the All has come forth from me, and the All has attained unto me. Cleave a (piece of) wood: I am there. Raise up the stone, an ye shall find me there.

The use of "All" rather than titles used in the canonical gospels is sketchy.

>(85) Jesus said: Adam came into being out of a great power and a great wealth, and yet he was not worthy of you. For if he tad been worthy, he would not have tasted of death.

Adam is in heaven, and while this can be reconciled it is still awkward.

>(I08) Jesus said: He who shall drink from my mouth shall become like me; I myself will become he, and the hidden thing shall be revealed to him.

"I myself will become he" I can't think of a defense for this statement.

>(114) Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

This is absolutely indefensible and contradicts the angels greeting "Hail, Full of Grace"

Basically part of it is fine, part of it is sketchy but can be defended, and part of it cannot be defended because it's wrong.


6dda62 No.603624

>>603593

>Not canonical,

True

>thus irrelevant

Hardly


3446b5 No.603674

>>603605

>Ethiopian Orthodox consoders Enoch 1 canon as well as The Book of Jubilees.

The fact they consider apocrypha to be scripture only serves to exposes them for their non-belief.


0ac713 No.603691

fine

t. orthodox


19befe No.603795

File: 15e4eb685f94349⋯.jpg (215.49 KB, 960x960, 1:1, heresy.jpg)

>>603610

>>603605

>>603600

>>603591

>being this new

>implying that the original canon was done arbitrarily

Lurk for 2 years before posting mate.


eb6592 No.604060

>>603621

Thank you for a serious reply. Can you please post some well thought out criticisms like this for the Ethiopic Enoch.

>>603612

I loved Pistis Sophia, and The Gospel of Mary too. The meta-physical things Jesus speaks of in those books are better than Feynman's lectures on quantum mechanics.


70918a No.604086


cf5d31 No.604094

File: 8824c4843328f86⋯.png (104.93 KB, 720x300, 12:5, gnostics.png)

>>604060

>Pistis Sophia

>The Gospel of Mary

Gnostic trash.


befcb6 No.604107

>>603691

>t. me

Fixed.

Unless you're from Ethiopa, there's a reason we don't put it in Scripture.


6db083 No.604118

>>604060

nah you just loved those because you're edgy


df6af3 No.604245

The book of Enoch is certainly an interesting read and obviously Enoch was a smart and pious man from what we know. However something we don't know is whether Enoch is the actual author of one of the books of Enoch. Since the books of Enoch could also have been made up by some heathen I personally wouldn't place great trust in them.


b49504 No.604248

>>603591

The book of Enoch was supposedly written by Enoch. Therefore, it would have been written pre-flood. That’s way too long ago, I highly doubt it exists in its original form. It’s probably real revelation that got corrupted, as much of it is different from the accounts given in scripture. The book of Genesis, the book of Jude, and the book of Revelation all contain true information from God, some of which is represented in Enoch. Anything in Enoch not in the rest of The Bible should not be regarded as scriptural


51ca16 No.604287

File: c5412468091ebe1⋯.webm (11.68 MB, 540x360, 3:2, Alternetive Gospel.webm)

>alternative gospels


1d3ca6 No.608478

if anyone has any idea on where i can actually find this book, let me know.


cc4bd5 No.608711

File: df83591bdfa09ac⋯.png (309.56 KB, 491x791, 491:791, tfw to intelligent 2.png)

>>608478

It's the Ethiopian Book of Enoch/1 Enoch, you can find it pretty easily online or in the OT Pseudepigrapha collection.

From what I've seen it's not so much that it's actually inspired, it's more that it takes prophecies from Daniel and rewrites them slightly, takes motifs from Deuteronomy 33 etc.

>And there I saw One who had a head of days, And His head was white like wool, And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man, And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels.

>And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and) why he went with the Head of Days ?

>And he answered and said unto me:This is the Son of Man who hath righteousness, With whom dwelleth righteousness, And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden,Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him,And whose lot hath the pre-eminence before the Lord of Spirits in uprightness for ever.

>And this Son of Man whom thou hast seen Shall raise up the kings and the mighty from their seats, [[And the strong from their thrones]]And shall loosen the reins of the strong, And break the teeth of the sinners.

>he shall put down the kings from their thrones and kingdoms]] Because they do not extol and praise Him, Nor humbly acknowledge whence the kingdom was bestowed upon them.

(1 Enoch 46:1-5)

>And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits.

(1 Enoch 40:1)

<I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire;

<A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened.

(Dan 7:9-10 NKJ)

<"I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.

<Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

(Daniel 7:13-14 NKJ)

Not just that, but also has a bunch of angels and demons we only really know in Rabbinical literature or in this book and are never mentioned anywhere else. (Samael, Azazel, Phanuel etc.)

It also has sections that say it was a particular demon that enticed Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil, along with the angel Phanuel being set over the repentance of those who hope to have eternal life.

>And he said to me: 'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.'

(1 Enoch 40:9)

>The name of the first Jeqon: that is, the one who led astray [all] the sons of God, and brought them

>down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men. And the second was named Asbeel: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled

>their bodies with the daughters of men. And the third was named Gadreel: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons.

(1 Enoch 69:4-6)

tl;dr the Church Fathers did nothing wrong, and there's a reason why the Book of Enoch isn't considered canon.




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