/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Just keep nonchalantly exposing the Talmud subversion whenever you can. Eventually enough people will become aware of their tricks. Even if the people you talk to disagree with you at first, they will start to notice it if you point it out without acting autistic about it because it's really there.

>>595891

You mean as in the name for the religion of the Hebrews? Yahwehism is a better name than Judaism which is just a lie sprung from the 2nd century ad that has insidiously laid claim to something it does not own. It's like if everyone went around saying that the religion of the Hebrews was Islam.

So what do we call the religion of the Hebrews? What did they call it? I haven't found them call it anything. The earliest name for the faith that we have is katholikos from the 1st century ad and because the catholic faith is the fulfillment of the religion of the Hebrews then maybe something like Proto Logos Catholicism is good.

Or, you know, Independent Fundamental Baptism.

>>595900

>>595901

I mean about >le polytheistic old testament faith

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahwism

I find it funny, because even the Bible says that at one point Jehovah was worshipped in a pantheon by the Levantine people. As for the origins of Jehovah, there is no evidence or data concerning the origin of belief in Him… except of course in the Bible. The Yahwism meme does not bother me whatsover, because "scholars" say nothing that the Bible doesn't, and it doesn't account for the origins of belief in Jehovah anyway.

>>595902

https://members.bib-arch.org/collections/ancient-israelite-religion

There's a lot of stuff we don't know (extrabiblically, of course). We're talking about stuff pre-Iron Age. There's that meme image of "This is Yahweh" complete with wife and penis from a sherd. It's not. So when someone says that Yahweh and Asherah were worshiped side-by-side, there's no evidence for it. Well, I mean, there is, but not on massive scale that was swept under the rug by religious reformers.

The least heretical claim is probably Yahweh was Abraham's house deity who then revealed Himself to be the actual God of everything.

One thing we need to remember is the Bible speaks of real spiritual beings with minds of their own: the Host of Heaven in 1 Kings 22. What's to be made of Psalm 86:8? 96:4? 97:7? 135:5? Exodus 12:12? Numbers 33:4? There is no hint that Yahweh is the only god. Instead it is clearly implied throughout the Old Testament that there are other gods and Yahweh has defeated them or has power over them. The first commandment implies the existence of other gods. There is no suggestion that the gods of Israel's neighbors do not exist. Gods seem to have real existence.

And then Deuteronomy 29 and 32, Yahweh has assigned gods to various nations. The other gods are subordinate to Yahweh and not His equal.

>>596348

>polytheistic Lutheran

There are no other Gods but just demons larping as Gods.

Interesting claim about Abraham's house deity however the natural state of man is belief in one God not many. Modern scientists have proven this happens around age 4. Believing in multiple gods is a corruption of this. We need not assume that monotheism was never a thing in the ancient world but rather we should assume it to be the default state and we can see this in figures like the high priest Melchizedek.

>>596348

>What's to be made of Psalm 86:8? 96:4?

Psalm 96:5

For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

>There is no hint that Yahweh is the only god.

Jeremiah 10:10-11

But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Psalm 115:3-8

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

>Instead it is clearly implied throughout the Old Testament that there are other gods and Yahweh has defeated them or has power over them.

Right because the other gods are mere idols that people have wrongly placed in the position of God. God has power over them because they are nothing more than mere idols, pieces of wood or metal.

>Exodus 12:12? Numbers 33:4?

It means He physically casts the idols down, or something to that effect, such as what happened in 1 Samuel 5:1-5.

When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.

And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the LORD. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again.

And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold; only the stump of Dagon was left to him.'

'Therefore neither the priests of Dagon, nor any that come into Dagon's house, tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod unto this day.

It may seem sad or strange that such a thing should seem necessary, but breaking the idol is what it seems to require to get idolators to stop their idolatry and worshipping of the work of their hands. If I got my hands on an idol, I would have no reservation doing the same.

>>596357

I'm not trying to sound polytheistic, but how else does it sound when a Israelite might say Baal is a real force to be reckoned with who had emotions and desires? How else did Pharaoh's magicians replicate Moses' feats? Recall also that the Shema uses the cardinal, not the ordinal. The Lord is one, not first.

The theory that monotheism came before polytheism is called Urreligion.

>>596359

I don't know, man.

Exodus 12:12 (NRSV)

…on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.

Numbers 33:4 (NRSV)

…The Lord executed judgments even against their gods.

Consider this:

2 Kings 3:27 (NRSV)

Then he took his firstborn son who was to succeed him, and offered him as a burnt offering on the wall. And great wrath came upon Israel, so they withdrew from him and returned to their own land.

Chemosh heard Moab's cry and was pleased with his offering. Pleased enough to fight Michael (the Prince of the Israelites in Daniel 10) and wage a spiritual war against them. Chemosh, the Prince of Persia, and the Prince of Greece are all real beings. You can say they're just demons that LARP around. I've said that's what ghosts are. But just because they're demons does not reduce they're power over us spiritually as well as physically.

>>595902

Have you ever read Judges and the Books of Kings? They're absolutely full of Israelites worshipped other gods. That is reflected in archaeology.

>>596379

Demons. It literally says in the bible that other gods are demons

>>596379

>but how else does it sound when a Israelite might say Baal is a real force to be reckoned with who had emotions and desires? How else did Pharaoh's magicians replicate Moses' feats?

>I've said that's what ghosts are. But just because they're demons does not reduce they're power over us spiritually as well as physically.

Only because they thought it did. Again, see Psalm 96:5 for the truth.

Isaiah 66:1-4

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

For all those things hath mine hand made, and those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Job 34:11-12

For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Do Jews worship Yahweh? Or is it that they LARP as Yahweh-followers and are in fact- followers of Satan?

>>596617

It's like how Mormons claim to follow Jesus. They're just using names.

>>596382

I was hoping someone would bring up Elijah and the pagan priests. Notice how Elijah never denies the existence of Baal? He makes fun of the priests, asking if their god is busying defecating.

1 Kings 18:39 (NRSV)

When all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and said, “The Lord indeed is God; the Lord indeed is God.”

He shouts in Hebrew: "Yahweh hu ha-elohim! Yahweh hu ha-elohim!"

Which is: "Yahweh, he is the gods! Yahweh, he is the gods!"

Baalzebub or Baal (or if I can call him the Prince of Ekron), a real spiritual being created by Yahweh, can't do anything without Yahweh's permission (1 Kings 22). No other god has Yahweh's power.

>>596402

Are ALL Princes demons?

Deuteronomy 32:8 (NRSV)

When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the Lord’s own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.

>>596407

>Only because they thought it did.

King Jephthah sure thought so.

>>596745

>King Jephthah sure thought so.

And if they weren't idiots in fear of idols they would have no power. Kings are not exempt from this.

Any time anyone fears something other than God they are wrong and it may end up badly for them. I don't care whether they are literally the king of Judah in the book of Kings, that isn't what gives it the stamp of approval. You're acting like all that matters is the culture at the time this was written and what they believed being what we should follow, but what really matters is what God Himself teaches here. They were wrong and the word of God is right, these things were written for our admonition. 1 Corinthians 10:11.

>>595901

>So what do we call the religion of the Hebrews?

See romans 2:28-29

>For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which if outward in the flesh:

>But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God

1 corinthians 10:2-4

>And were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

>And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

>And did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ

Biblical jews, israelites, hebrews, and descendants of Jacob i.e galatians 4:21-30 are christians. As they ate the same spiritual meat and spiritual drink of Christ that we do today and thusly were followers of Jesus Christ christians

/thread

>>596745

Dude what kind of shitty translation are you using? It is atrocious. Elohim is translated as God. When it used in plural it is "heavenly hosts", or angels. Only time when it is translated as "gods" is when it is applied to humans.

Abandon that garbage translation and go back to KJV or something normal.