/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

50%.

All dead are judged immediately after death so there is no "grave".

Limbo was taken by Christ after he died so there is no one here now save two persons.

Purgatory is missing

Etc etc.

does that say "ALIENS" next to 2 Thes 1:8-9?

>>590602

>Limbo was taken by Christ after he died so there is no one here now save two persons.

who?

>purgatory is missing

no problem there

>>590612

Enoch and Elias.

You don't want to go greek on you in regards of it, do you?

>>590602

How do you explain the great white throne judgement then? That it just happened to be in the middle of the book of revelation and it has no connection to the rest of the book?

>>590621

Aren't they in Heaven too?

>>590598

Meh.

<Death

<Intermediate judgment

>Paradise for the saved

>Hades (Sheol) for the unsaved

>Our prayers are for those in Paradise to attain even higher bliss and for those in Hades to suffer less, it can get to the point that some in Hades end up in Paradise

<Final judgment

>Those found in Paradise at the final judgment end up in the Kingdom of God

>Those found in Hades at the final judgment end up in Gehenna

Tartarus is where demons are imprisoned, it's not for us.

Abraham's Bosom was a part of Hades reserved for the righteous, until Christ rescued them out of there.

>>590598

It's close. Where it says tartarus it should say just hades/sheol. Tartaros is where the fallen angels are imprisoned and is different.

>>590752

There is two judgments period. This "white throne judgment" is last judgment. No one ever heard about it as separate judgment before 1930

>>590753

No. To quote Sirach:

Henoch pleased God, and was translated into paradise, that he may give repentance to the nation

and in another place:

[Elias] wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses.

Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.

Compare it to this: And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.

>>590773

>There is two judgments period

That's exactly what the diagram says? One at death and one at the end

>>590756

How can they end up in Paradise if Luke 16:26 literally says "none may cross from there to us," referring to the "great chasm" between Torment and Abraham's Bosom?

>>591112

Again, the parable of Lazarus and the rich man describes the afterlife as it was prior to Christ's death on the cross.

If passing from Hades to Paradise were an absolute impossibility, the Harrowing of Hades wouldn't have happened.

Rather, it is impossible for those who are on the "lower" levels of Hades. But those who have righteousness in them even though they are not saved can still be saved by our prayers.

>>590773

>>590753

>>591105

Enoch and Eisha/Elias have been transported to whenever the events regarding the two prophets in sackcloth take place.

>>591201

Can I just get a source on that so I know it isn't just personal interpretation?

>>591006

I was not talking about graph but about so called "white throne judgment"

>>591105

I don't remember if it was Cornelius a Lapide or Robert Bellarmine but one of them (or both maybe) said it was de facto de fide interpretation and that to deny it if it is not heresy it is as close as it gates.

>>591289

That was Bellarmine, I believe.

>>590598

I don't understand the two judgements. Why does my soul go in a bucket until the resurrection? Why doesn't my consciousness just skip through time until I'm resurrected?

>>591448

I can think of all kinds of reasons.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8, John 8:56, Luke 16:22-23, Psalm 6:5, Revelation 6:9-11, Mark 9:43-44, Isaiah 66:24.

>>591455

It's so weird. The soul needs some kind of vessel, so between death and the resurrection if we were to be conscious we would have to be stored in homunculi in heaven.

>>591289

>>591408

Ok. I feel like that's still not fully authoritative if it's just from one cardinal but I have always wondered what those two guys were up too.

>>591456

idk tbh

>>591448

Believers in the soul sleep theory say that is true. The biggest argument against that theory in my opinion is that when Samuel was dragged from Sheol by the necromancer, he knew what was going on in the world.

>>591512

I'd say John 8:56 is the best argument, because Jesus says that Abraham saw Jesus' day and was glad. Also it can't be "sheol" where he was, because Psalm 6:5 says there is no remembrance of the Lord there, and because that is a place of fire and torment. Mark 12:27 says:

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.