Does the Qur'an actually say Jesus wasn't crucified?

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File: 3cd294209023774⋯.jpg (891.87 KB, 1800x1200, 3:2, the-crucifixion-of-christ.jpg)

Does the Qur'an actually say Jesus wasn't crucified? Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 02:32:42 262200 No.590113

>That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

>Surah 4:157

I debated with a Shia guy today. The crucifixion of Jesus came up and he told me he actually believes that Jesus was crucified and died on the cross. He said that the verses in question means that Jesus as the "Word of Allah" still lived on in spirit, so in that sense he wasn't "killed" or "crucified", it only "appeared so", but his power still lives on. He also gave me quotes from early Muslim writers that affirm the crucifixion and death of Jesus. So, it seems that Muslims are interpreting their own book wrongly. I don't understand why Shia's who hold this view don't just become Christians. What's holding them back? They even affirm Jesus as the Word of God, the Logos, so they're just a step away from affirming his divinity. How do we reach them?

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 02:46:30 5a8d78 No.590117

>>590113

Is that the orthodox Shia perspective? I know that isn't a Sunni view

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 02:51:50 b7ec10 No.590121

Do they think he snuck out the back door and replaced him with some mexican dude or what?

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 02:54:25 262200 No.590125

>>590117

Idk if that is the orthodox Shia view but he told me he was a Shia and believed in this view.

>>590121

That's what Sunnis believe apparently.

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 02:59:34 5a8d78 No.590127

>>590121

>>590125

There's also a heterodox Sunni perspective that Jesus was crucified but didn't die (funny enough this is the view of Ahmed Deedat and Shabir Ally).

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 03:14:14 9ced2e No.590130

Pretty much reiterates the know perspective of various Gnostics.

https://thegodabovegod.com/gnostics-view-crucifixion-jesus/

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 03:21:37 99081b No.590133

>>590113

Huh, that's interesting. I don't really know much about Shia. I do know a good deal about Sunni Islam, and I know a bit about Bahai. What you described is the Bahai belief about the crucifixion. Cause y'know, they have to reconcile The Bible, which describes the crucifixion four times in depth and makes mention to it numerous times; with The Quran, which says Jesus was not killed or crucified. Bahai say what you said: Jesus died on a cross, but his power as word of God still exists. Now, Bahai formed as an offshoot of Shia Islam technically, Bahai formed as an offshoot of Babism, and Babism formed as an offshoot of Shia Islam so it could very well be that the Shia believe this. However, Sunni are united in stating that Jesus ascended into Heaven and was not crucified.

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 05:02:33 923035 No.590153

File: 319fc1cef78f931⋯.mp4 (2.59 MB, 400x224, 25:14, Muslim_becomes_Christian.mp4)

>>590113

>Word of Allah

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 05:14:41 262200 No.590154

>>590133

I did some digging and found it's primarily the Isma'ili sect of Shia Islam that holds this view on Jesus's death, but the Twelver Shia sect of Islam holds the same view as most Sunni schools of thought in regards to the crucifixion.

Christanon 01/17/18 (Wed) 05:53:02 55412e No.590160

>>590113

Ahmadiyya Muslims believe Jesus was crucified but didn't actually die (the 'swoon theory'). But other Muslims dob't consider Ahmadiyya to be real Muslims. They look at them the way we look at Mormons.