/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Faith is proof enough.

<Hebrews 11:1

>Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

>>583248

What constitute as "proof", especially in a historical setting?

I can quote various biblical passages and (later) pagan authors on the subject, but so often dismissed due to certain (and unrealistic) standards.

>>583248

God's word says He did

11 out of the 12 people who saw Him resurrected died rather than say He didn't, and the 12th confessed it until he died naturally.

I know that's not enough evidence for an atheist, but it's certainly evidence that something significant happened in Palestine 2000 years ago. Make what you will of it.

>>583270

*11 out of the 12 Apostles

Even the cucks like Bart Ehrman will say that the apostles at least saw what they perceived to be the resurrected Christ. There's no other way to explain early Church history and how Christ's followers were willing to die for Him.

>>583248

Hey guys, I have a great idea!

Lets go spread a Lie that our master, who died under great torture, ressurected from the dead and be persecuted by the jews and the pagans, suffering horrible deaths for nothing!

t. no one

Only (((modern scholars))) can believe such bullshit. All the Apostles except one died under grievous torture. Its obvious that Jesus ressurected, because no sane man would be willing to die for such a pointless lie.

>>583296

>All the Apostles except one died under grievous torture. Its obvious that Jesus ressurected, because no sane man would be willing to die for such a pointless lie.

>Implying it's more likely that a man rose from the dead than that 11 or 12 followers of a desert messianic sect 2000 years ago were insane/delusional

>>583252

Way to long

>>583248

Here you go OP

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

>>583374

Yes

>>583296

>because no sane man would be willing to die for such a pointless lie

Yeah, next thing you'll tell me is that someone would have enough faith to strap a bomb on to themselves for some kind of suicide lol

>>583378

Islamic boombooms never saw any miricles or even mohammed so that's a stupid point. I wouldn't say Christian martys a while after the time of Christ would count at all as proof, but it's that it woukd be absolutely retarded to say all the 12 apostles who walked with Jesus would never deny him when they're being tortured. Watch this vid >>583277 he talks about it better

>>583374

> that 11 or 12 followers

are you retarded?

>>583376

e/b/in

>>583378

You realize that you're saying the religion came form nothing if you say that the Apostles had faith?

If you believe that Islam is false, you also believe Allah deceived people.

If you believe that Christianity is false, you also believe the apostles deceived people.

Allah's faith changed with time. For example, early on, when he perceived his peace religion wasn't gaining traction, he created the verse of swords and form then on, things went downhill.

The religion of the apostles didn't change even when they were dying.

>>583374

>Apostles we're insane/delusional

I guess that's closer to being potentially truth, even if it isn't?

Christianity is one of, if not the, only religions that was witnessed, started, and professed by the masses. Unlike others that are private visions and revelations from one man, Christ saw fit that thousands witnessed His miracles and rising.

>>583389

How is that retarded?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ErnJF_nwBk&list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TUYymBPce08oyuhnHLLkR_B

badda bing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rml5Cif01g4&list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TW70EEo4e2onJ4lq1QYSzrY

badda boom

>>583431

I would advise not to post InspiringPhilosophy on this board as he is a follower of the heresy known as immaterialism.

>>583432

What's immaterialism and why is it unbiblical?

>>583248

There is no proof OP (((they))) have destroyed or hid it all besides the Bible itself as proof. Hebrews 11:1 is very relavent.

>>583433

>What's immaterialism and why is it unbiblical?

Immaterialism is the heretical belief that the physical world is an illusion produced by disembodied minds and that matter does not really exist. According to the proponents of this heresy, the world is nothing more than a reality TV show in God's head. And it is heretical because it is incompatible with the theophanies, especially the Incarnation.

>theophanies, especially the Incarnation.

Literally what? Bible quotes where are they? Do you mean Jesus coming into the world in the flesh by this "incarnation" thingy? I think that immaterialism is wrong because Jesus literally died on the cross for our sins in john 19:30-35. But the physical life not mattering much has merit in 2 peter 2:10 and the various "the flesh" verses.

>>583411

>Unlike others that are private visions and revelations from one man

Like, uh, Paul for example?

>>583434

doesn't matter if the videos don't touch upon it

When the jews killed Jesus, his resurrection was not the only supernatural event that occurred. The skies darkened, the earth shook, and the veil within the temple was torn in half.

After having been confirmed dead by Romans, he was seen alive by many witnesses prior to returning back to heaven…though his resurrected body was not flesh and bone even though it had the same appearance.

>>583440

>one revelation to an apostle dicredits what anon said

Bad goy

>>583521

>though his resurrected body was not flesh and bone even though it had the same appearance.

That is so wrong on so many levels see luke 24:36-40

>And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

>But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

>And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

>Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

>And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

Jesus came by blood and water john 19:34-35. Read the Bible more.

Read Frank Morrison's who rolled the stone

In the immediate few weeks after Jesus's death the number of people becoming Christian exploded, I mean people left all they had to join the disciples group not just believing, at any point if his body could be produced or a witness come forward you wouldn't be posting here, they weren't idiots you could deceive by trickery, the Pharisees and Romans were educated people but they could not produce a compelling argument to rebuke the Christians claim, not only that but Saul became an apostate despite being a Pharisee his whole life, this was a man who lived in Rome and knew philosophy, law and religion and was smart enough to spot a fake miracle, completely swapped sides and dedicated his life for its cause.