/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>582557

do you have eastern European immigrants in you area? If so maybe try an Orthodox church

>>582561

Despite having a lot of Russians in my area (and being one myself), there is not a single Russian-Orthodox church. Though, there are Greek, Romanian and Serbian Orthodox churches in my town. I do not belong to any of those nations, let alone speak their tongue. Plus, Orthodoxy is very similar to Catholicism, which makes this denomination absolete in my book; even though it would fit quite well when it comes to traditional values.

>>582557

since it's southern Germany there is probably a catholic parish nearby maybe try that out?

>>582573

Of course, I could try, but I do not agree with the traditions of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, as well as their derivatives; it would be in vain, I suppose.

>>582576

Thank you. I looked up if there is a church in proximity, unfortunately there is none. Nonetheless, it gave me a certain direction to look for - maybe one of those independent denominations practices significantly more fundamental.

>>582557

>follows the scripture as close as it is realistically possible

You're not qualified to make this determination neither you are an authority on what constitutes realistic following of the scripture.

What would you say to the Copts, whose Church was established by st. Mark the Apostle who say:

>Our Lord Jesus Christ did not write a book, He did not document His blessed teachings on paper, but He chose His disciples who accompanied Him day and night. They absorbed His teachings and learned directly from Him. He sent them to teach the whole world and to make disciples of all nations, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations.”

>Christianity is, therefore, a religion that is Tradition-bound and is strongly committed to discipleship. No wonder, then, that the Apostles preferred verbal teaching to the written one:

-“Having many things to write to you, I did not wish to do so with paper and ink; but I hope to come to you and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.” (2 Jn 12)

• Also, “I had many things to write, but I do not wish to write to you with pen and ink; but I hope to see you shortly, and we shall speak face to face.” (3 Jn 13)

• St. Paul said to the Corinthians, “The rest I will set in order when I come.” (1 Cor 11:34)

• St. Paul said to his disciple Titus, “For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking.” (Tit 1:5)

• The Apostles wrote to the Gentiles saying, “We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will report the same things by word of mouth.” (Acts 15:27) So even though they wrote a letter they sent two men in order to convey the same message verbally.

• St. John said, “And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” (Jn 21:25) St. Peter said, “I have written to you briefly.” (1 Pet 5:12)

>>582577

>agree with the traditions of the Catholic and Orthodox churches

At the risk of starting "the debate" again would you care to explain? I should at the very least warn you against making this choice without fully understanding why the oldest Church holds to the practices that protestantism has abandoned why they are scripturally sound.

>>582557

Have you thought about visiting an ELFK church? Last time I checked they were still orthodox lutherans.

>>582570

> Despite having a lot of Russians in my area (and being one myself), there is not a single Russian-Orthodox church.

In my city we are a Serbian parish but we have a lot of non-Serbian Orthodox church goers. The service is however all in Serbian, and our priest does not speak the language very well, but other people do and help him out. Sometimes part of the service is even in German.

> Plus, Orthodoxy is very similar to Catholicism, which makes this denomination absolete in my book

So you want a church that has not succumbed to modernity, yet you refuse the church that has stood since the days of the Apostles? Make up your mind on what you really want.

>>582595

There is no such thing as "orthodox" lutherans, to begin with.

>>582557

I am German, too, and here are two very important things you will have to take into account, before you throw yourself at a parish, which I hereby establish:

(1) Don't become lutheran - or protestant in general - become Catholic. Protestantism is autistic, and to a large extend unbiblical, screeching. See women "priests" and "bishops", see pro-lgbt agenda and the like. Most importantly, they let themselves abuse and make tools of politics, such as "orthos", too.

Which brings me to my second point:

(2) Do you want to be a Christian, or do you want a label to parade around ? Do you want to do as the Father and Christ commanded and fulfill God's Will or do you want to keep a political agenda - according to which you want to go ahead and choose a "faith" ? Because if you want to be a Christian, you can't stroll around like a /pol/ autist from the internet and be like "OMFG REFUGEES WELCOME REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE". Because the path that is Christ has to direct your life, not your personal agenda according to which you neglect His teachings, because it's somehow convenient to you.

So now that we have established a rather reasonable basis, let me go into one more thing: Why do you want to hear "sermons" ? I guess because of what I mentioned in point (2). Don't do that. Do you know why we have a mass, or the Divine Liturgy in case of the Eastern Churches ? We worship God, and we celebrate the Sacrifice that Christ made for us - culminating in the Holy Communion, that is: the physical coming together of the the Lord, Jesus Christ, and us. THAT is the center of all. THAT is what is the most important together with the "general" worship. The physical communion between you and God - because Christ is present not only during the mass, but within the Eucharist. Lutherans and all the other protestants perverted this - the gift that Jesus gave us - up to a point where grape juice and crackers are "representative" and nothing more.

So how should you proceed ? First of all, you put your personal feefees and political agenda aside, because what you look for is God and you can only do that by fully doing His Will. Then you take a phone and call the priest in your nearest parish for an initial meeting.

You can find them (because you mentioned Soutern Germany, I suppose Bavaria ?) here:

https://www.erzbistum-muenchen.de/Pfarrei or

http://www.bistum-regensburg.de/bistum/meine-pfarrgemeinde/

or for Baden-Württemberg: http://www.drs.de/dioezese/kirchengemeinden-und-dekanate.html

————–

In that initial meeting you can ask the priest what everything is about and you can explain your situation etc..

And one or two more things: First of all, as Christians - and I mean ALL Christians, not just Catholics - it is our DUTY to help refugees. Real refugees. Of course because of the current political situation we have a lot of criminals and frauds claiming to be refugees - even terrorists - but we can't deny the help, because when someone asks and is a real refugee but your refuse to help, you committed a grave sin. That does not mean we want unlimited people, let alone handling refugees as "immigrants" like politics does. They Pope himself stated that despite our duty to help them, when they disrespect prevalent culture, when they become criminals and generally behave against the prevalent norms, they no longer count as refugees and have to go back/face the consequences of a criminal.

Furthermore, your "fundamental" beliefs mean shit - especially in the wake of protestantism. If you want real, orthodox and fundamental Christianity that aligns with the Gospels and Christ, you go with the Catholic Church.

So long, may God bless you and guide you on your way.

>>582584

How about this church? it's on Kirchenstraße street

http://www.findglocal.com/DE/Landstuhl/484957388248237/Trinity-Reformed-Church

>>582586

You quite misunderstood me. I meant "reastically" in the sense of "What can I realistically expect, given the modern circumstances?" - I should have worded it better.

>>582589

>>582591

My reluctance boils down to:

>Mary worship

>constituting saints

>worship of saints

>constituting a "Vicar of Christ"

>worshipping and following him

>pompous decor in churches and in general, hence lacking humility (in appearance and spending)

>baptizing of infants

>>582595

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll check one or several out.

>>582606

Just because something is old, it doesn't mean it is better. As it was and is with Judaism, Christianity's branches are not spared of becoming corrupted. Because of parts of the list above, I do not consider Orthodoxy a valid option either, despite of my assumption that they represent, as Catholics, rather traditional values because of their homogeneity.

>>582557

I think you misunderstand a lot of this.

>Mary worship

One venerates, not worships Mary. This is commanded by scripture - Luke 1:48

>constituting saints

>worship of saints

Again, veneration as examples to be followed. Christ will be with us till the end of the age right? That's not just Eucharist, that's those he sanctifies as well.

>constituting a "Vicar of Christ"

>worshipping and following him

Further, the early patristics are clear - where is the Bishop, there is the Church. Christ redeemed our sins and founded the Church. Now, Rome believes that communion with the successor of Peter will forever be a guarantee of orthodoxy, and while we differ on this point, we agree that episcopal discipline is essential.

>pompous decor in churches and in general, hence lacking humility (in appearance and spending)

Those Churches were built once, for all time, by a thankful people, using their resources and skills, to glorify God.

>baptizing of infants

A wholesome doctrine! We are not atomized individuals - we carry each other's crosses! What a horrible thought, that you could live in Christ's church, but you child could not till third grade! We make profession on their behalf, and catechise them as they age.

>>582616

>Mary worship

>worship of saints

I know you're German, but "worship" isn't the right word to use. It's more like "verehrung".

Read any basic text about Cathodoxy and you'll see why this is wrong.

>>constituting saints

What's wrong with recognising Saints?

>constituting a "Vicar of Christ"

It's literally Christ's bidding. Why do you have an issue with this?

>worshipping and following him

We don't worship him. We honour him, pray for him, and obey him as the Representative/Stand-in (Vicarius) of Christ, but remember that he is "just a man" (Act 10:26)

>pompous decor in churches and in general, hence lacking humility (in appearance and spending)

Temples should be beautiful since they are the houses of God, and are an offering to Him.

Also, if you want to consider Catholciism seriously, you should separate the humility of the man from the dignity of the office.

>baptizing of infants

Why is this an issue?

>>582616

>>Mary worship

>>constituting saints

>>worship of saints

>>constituting a "Vicar of Christ"

>>worshipping and following him

>>pompous decor in churches and in general, hence lacking humility (in appearance and spending)

>>baptizing of infants

We don't worship Mary.

The Church exists to make saints. And we have actual requirements, contrary to protestants where "everyone is an apostle and a saint".

The Vicar of Christ comes from Christ Himself. Mt 16:18.

We don't worship the Pope, that's a lie. We follow him, because he's the head of the visible church. You follow the police too, does that mean you worship them ? I don't think so.

The gold and the optics are to honor God. You know that Christ is present in the mass. And when consecrated hosts were not consumed, they are stored in the so-called Tabernacle. That means he is there. Christ is the king of kings. The lacking humility is a myth. It's something YOU and other protestants imply. Do you know what reeks of lacking humility ?

>…but I cannot help to avoid these also as soon as I read that they welcome refugees. Also, I am pretty sure they'd tolerate faggots in most, if not all churches.

Mind = blown, right ?

And what's your take on infant baptism ? There is literally nothing speaking against it, and I'm sure you just hooked on another protestant lie.

Do you want to hear a secret ? Millions of people shoot against the Church, while we solely endure the slander, the lies etc., because we have enough issues among ourselves. And do you know why everyone shoots against the Church ? Because satan HATES it. Mind = blown again, right ?

So not to let this slip into some kind of slander contest: All your objections boil down to either pride or lies you hooked on and you didn't read into what the actual Church teachings says about them. Once you do that you will see that everything you mentioned just fades away like a fart in the wind.

>>582616

There's a lot to unpack here but we may as well start off simple with the perception of Mary worship. Let's take the Hail Mary, undoubtedly the centerpiece of out prayers to her, and unpack it.

>Hail Mary

Hail simply means hello, but obviously it is a very regal hello and reserved for royalty. But Gabriel did not address Mary this way (the original Greek word is chaire, which in the Gospel is only ever used in reference to Jesus as King and master http://biblehub.com/greek/chaire_5463.htm) and the Catholic Church does not consider Mary the Queen of Heaven for nothing. What is your scriptural interpretation of Revelations 12 and it's figure of a crowned virgin mother in heaven?

>full of grace

Again, straight from Gabriel's mouth.

>blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus

Straight from Elizabeth's mouth (and Mary's if the magnificat is to be believed). And note that we do not consider her to be divine or godlike, simply blessed and human.

>Holy Mary, Mother of God,

And here we see the reason why she is reverenced so much by the Church and the angels. I've seen several preachers (one in particular) that try and downplay the importance of Mary by stating that she was simply the mother of Jesus the man and not Jesus the Christ, but if we wish not to fall into dualistic and reductive heresy we must consider those two the same, as defined in the Council of Chalcedon in 451. The status of Mary as the Theotokos was established even earlier at Ephesus. I suggest you do more research into this dogma as it flows naturally from a proper Christology and may lead you do it if you have a few heretical ideas dinging around in your brain.

>pray for us sinners, now and in the hour of our death.

Just as we ask the living to pray for us on earth, we ask the living to pray for us in Heaven. Mary is our intercessor. She is not a goddess, none of her power is her own, and she would absolutely be the first to tell you so.

Also as to the subject of the pope, what is your interpretation of John 21:15-23?

>>582610

I appreciate your elaborate response, but it is not a necessity to sell your denomination of choice to me, as if it is a matter of life and death - well, it actually may be the case, depending on how you put it into perspective - because, as stated in the OP, I am not open to non-Protestant denominations.

To relieve you in some way: I assure you it is not out of a particularly political agenda in order to virtue signal. I abandoned God eight years ago and the growing hollowness has become noticeable to me, hence try to regain what I once had: affirmation and structure for my morals and conduct I unfortunately had abandoned in my misguidance.

>>582630

>>582631

>>582632

I am not as well read as you, so there is not a well-versed, let alone knowledgeable refutation on my part.

Except to infant baptism: we are born in sin, hence in flesh, but reborn in spirit, repentent of our sin. How can a child, let alone an infant be (fully) conscious of his sin? The procedure of baptizing them becomes obsolete since they aren't aware of its meaning itself.

>>582637

>Except to infant baptism

I'll refer you to the Andersonism thread on that subject, me and an anabaptist baptist got into a more than heated debate on that subject. As long as you don't consider these baptisms completely invalid in God's eyes then it's at least and understandable position, although it you do it absolutely isn't.

>>582637

>How can a child, let alone an infant be (fully) conscious of his sin?

There is a difference between Original Sin and actual sin.

As you rightly say, we are all born in sin, but this is latent in us until we start to become independent and can rationalise behaviour within ourselves - i.e. right and wrong. Actual sin satarts happening after this point, where you can differ between good and evil, but still do evil.

Baptism takes way original sin (and of course if you are baptised later on, other actual sins accrued) , but we are still left with concupiscence, which is that innate inclination to sin given us by our fallen nature.

Plus for us it's also a serious sin to be a Catholic parent and to either put off or refuse to baptise your child after a reasonable period of time (a few months after birth at most).

>>582557

>I cannot help to avoid these also as soon as I read that they welcome refugees.

I get you but what is any church supposed to do? Actively try to fight Muslims? Stupid.

> Orthodoxy is very similar to Catholicism, which makes this denomination absolete in my book; even though it would fit quite well when it comes to traditional values.

Do you have any clue as to what it is you want? I don't think you do.

>>582648

>Do you have any clue as to what it is you want? I don't think you do.

Could you maybe not insult him out of the flock? Ty.

>>582610

So much this.

If you are looking into a church which tries to keep up to date with the times, you can be sure that they are not offering salvation.

>>582651

Okay but I will say this: OP is more bigoted than pious and he's turned off his brain because he likes memes. Sad!

>>582655

So then, why are you in a Church that you believe does not offer salvation?

>>582557

OP, you are looking for "Freikirche", which isn't part of the state / government. Baptists come in this flavor for example. Another advantage: You won't pay "church tax".

>>582610

>And one or two more things: First of all, as Christians - and I mean ALL Christians, not just Catholics - it is our DUTY to help refugees.

State churches only do that for taxpayer gibs. It's about enriching church officials.

>>582658

>OP is more bigoted than pious and he's turned off his brain because he likes memes. Sad!

Again, don't insult him out of the flock Mr. President. Anon's on this board, like the rest of humanity, tend to be horrible at debating their points because they would rather play with the splinters lodged in their brother's eyes than patiently try to take them out and meet the qualifications Jesus laid out to do so. If the wise are those whose houses are built on rock and the fools are those who's houses are built on sand then our job as evangelists is foundation repair. If you don't take that process slowly and gently, replacing the sand one brick at a time and taking care not to disturb the sand that is supporting the house until absolutely necessary, and doing this all with professional precision, the house they care so much about will collapse and they will drive you off what remains of their property with a shotgun because why the hell would they ever trust you to try again? I don't want you to think I'm being self righteous with this, I only started thinking this way because my conscience has driven me to apologize too many times for behaving like a jackass on this board, and even then I took a jab at you before I made this post, but if we fail to win these people over to the truth, 90% of the time we only have ourselves (and that Satan guy) to blame. Be perfect, as our Father is perfect.

>>582651

Signed

>>582648

>Actively try to fight Muslims?

They did it centuries ago.

I do think you are able to comprehend anything unless it is completely laid out to you. What I mean with "traditional" is not referring to a church's tradition, but the (societal) mindset of the church, that is comparatively traditional in this day and age.

>>582651

No harm done, he misunderstood and is a reddit-spacer from r/TheDonald, so I shall take pity upon his mental disorder.

>>582655

Pardon, but why are Catholics so tolerant of faggots then? As time went on, the Catholic and Orthodox churches became, also, increasingly more tolerant, and the problem comes with their homogeneity that you cannot escape it no matter which church you - maybe there can be rare exceptions, but I don't bet on them. Additionally, I was born into a family with a Protestant denomination, so, it goes Sola Scriptura or nothing.

>>582662

>OP, you are looking for "Freikirche", which isn't part of the state / government

Yes, exactly. And I had my hopes on a Baptist church since Baptists wildly vary in their practices; there could be a good chance that there is a conservative church that represents the real biblical values. Unfortunately, the only Baptist church in town helps refugees. It isn't out of option, and I get that they only practice to love their neighbor and help those people in need, and maybe there are some of them who are genuine Christians, but that is also betting on exceptions - it will leave a bad aftertaste, so to say.

>>582637

>I am not as well read as you, so there is not a well-versed, let alone knowledgeable refutation on my part.

So you have objections. These objections are seriously severe with regards to the Church.These objections you have there are lies and slander. But you have really no clue why, you didn't read about it, nor are you "well read enough" to refute really easy answers to this ? Boy this is the definition of hubris and lacking humility. You judged before you even had the proper tools to do so.

You better get yourself a book … or well it's the internet so fire up google or Startpage and read up, I suggest you're smart enough to do this if you were smart enough to make a thread on this board. And fire up your telephone to have a talk with a Catholic priest.

>>582855

>Pardon, but why are Catholics so tolerant of faggots then?

Which one ? The very few priests that come out as homos decades after their ordination ? Or the repenting homos that really seek God ? Or do you mean with "tolerant" the constant ranting against lgbt-ideology by the Pope, the Cardinals and basically every clergyman - despite advocating against discrimination, because that is satanic ?

And then this "refugees" thing again. Boy, get your head straight, because you have some serious issues with yourself. Go talk to a Catholic priest and look for how you solve them, because this is neither healthy nor is it contributing to the salvation of yourself nor others. Quite the contrary, your disdain, almost hate, is the purest form of rejection of the Gospel.

>>582975

>>582973

You are truly a German indeed, which shows with your "you-have-to-function-the-way-I-want-otherwise-you're-expandable" mentality. Not an ounce of sentimentality or compassion in your words, instead everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Contrary to you, I have the humility to say that I judge based on my limited knowledge, yet you dare to judge my character with your improper tools, hence utterly limited knowledege. Man is more complex than the few words you can read on this Vietnamese children's book forum, and this you are still ought to learn.

>>582982

This was a bunch of nonsense right there. What does that have to do with compassion ? I said stop having objections against the one true Church, which you admittedly have, because you are uneducated on the matters and prolly heard it somewhere from meme-tier people like """pastor""" Anderson ? And spouting more lies in that we are somehow tolerant of faggotry ? Or that you have a serious problem when you choose your church according to whether it helps refugees or not ?

This is not a matter of compassion, it's a matter of correcting the false assumptions you have and spread here - again, admittetly without knowing anything or having gone deeper than "this YT video told me so".

>>582999

I grew up in the SDA cult and you Catholics, at least on this board, are not inferior at all when it comes to unscrupulous shilling of your denomination. Truly, you guys disgust me.

>>583006

>advertising the truth is reprehensible

Get out

>>582557

Have looked into a church aligned with historic Puritianism? Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians etc. are much less likely to be modernistic. If there's no stained glass or musical instruments or anything like that it's definitely conservative.

>>583021

>>583031

This is the "hey guys help me find a good Protestant church" thread, not the "hey papists come evangelize me" thread. Go away

>>583036

You have to go back

>>582557

>to find one [church] that genuinely follows the scripture

The Church doesn't "follow" the Scriptures.

The Church WROTE the Scriptures. And not all that was taught the Disciples was written down in them …

>>582855

>Unfortunately, the only Baptist church in town helps refugees.

…converting to Christianity, right?

If not, that might become YOUR mission.

Do what God tells you.

>>582855

>a conservative church that represents the real biblical values

>the only Baptist church in town helps refugees

Helping refugees is a real Biblical value.

Congrats! You've found your church!

>>583477

>The Church doesn't "follow" the Scriptures

If your church doesn't follow the word of God, it is not a church. The sheep don't rebel against the voice of their shepherd

>>582557

Aren't there any baptist churches? Even Sweden has them, and it seems like what you would want.

>>583542

Swedish Baptist churches would probably be mostly pozzed. Steven Anderson (pbuh) might be the patron saint of this board but IFB barely exists outside of the South and the Baptist churches in my country are mostly liberal.

>>583477

Scripture is called "the word of God" for a reason, and its not because Romanists wrote it. Get on board with the program, stop promoting idolatry and a false works gospel here. I mean it, repent.

>>583550

Swedish Baptist churches are okay considering they're in Sweden. There is also Ecumenical Church of Sweden, a Baptist Evangelical Protestant church, formed by merger of 3 other churches.

But yes, someone speaking frankly about homosexuality might get in some legal trouble, so the official position of churches tend to be to either embrace it or be completely silent on the matter unless you ask them.

>>582557

Revelation 3:4

>Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Hebrews 10:25

>Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

>>584953

Maybe I really should move to the east. Poland is out of question since it is almost completely Catholic. Are you trying to drive me into suicide with your drivel?

Look up Pastor Olaf Latzel

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/October/Pastor-Pays-Price-to-See-Germanys-Spiritual-Revival

>>585475

http://militarygetsaved.tripod.com/germany.html

This might be worth a look-over friend. Check them out. Not sure how pozzed some of they might be, but if transport is cheap there, like I think, then it would be worth it to find a real church if it's out there.

>>582570

> Romanian and Serbian Orthodox churches in my town. I do not belong to any of those nations, let alone speak their tongue.

I go to a Russian Orthodox and don't speak russian, the priest speaks okay english and does sermons in both english and russian.

If you know what liturgy they use you can just read it in english to get a sense of what is being said. I don't think the language barrier is an excuse tbh

>Plus, Orthodoxy is very similar to Catholicism, which makes this denomination absolete in my book; even though it would fit quite well when it comes to traditional values.

orthodoxy is the only viable denomination these days, all protestant churches are super cucked or very "fundie" and seem to "stick to scripture" yet they get most of their theology and beliefs wrong, and catholicism is well…it has big problems

>>585475

>visting a Catholic church.

Don't do that. It'd be better for you to move halfway across the world than join them

>>585810

>and catholicism is well…it has big problems

Hello pot

>>582616

>My reluctance boils down to:…

>I have a basic knowledge of complex issues and disagree with the church fathers on them because of my lack of understanding

Ftfy.

>>585780

Thank you for the reassurance on the cucked Lutherans in Germany. I'll watch the video sometimes soon, but am not too thrilled since the description already says that he was an anti-semite, disregarded women etc. Buzzwords only people of (((The Current Year +3))) would genuinely be bothered about. But you already said to take it with grains of salt, so I'll keep it in mind then.

>>585785

Thank you for the link. I'm going to check out if there's a church in proximity and call through in order to get to know how and what they preach there. Unfortunately transport in Germany is very expensive.

>>585827

>(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST)

You mods are way too partial, kek

>>585833

>complex issues

>doing things that are either not mentioned in scripture or completely go against

>>585985

>difficult to refute for a catholic

>implying there is anything to refute except "muh tradition"

Bumperino for replies

>>587456

>KJ21

What is this dank new meme?

Hello Germanon.

I come to you with a sincere post, after a short reading of the thread.

Considering your options, I would suggest Orthodoxy first, and smaller Catholic parishes later (especially being in a Catholic region like you are, it would be easier to find them).

But such was already suggested to you. I understand we all have preferences.

Yet, the reason why you rejected them was not racional OR pious in the slightest, and when confronted by this you said that in fact you were not sufficiently studied or well read.

Brother I understand much of what you say about some superficial things, but they are just that: superficial.

On the serious issues that you most worry about you will be better off as Orthodox or Catholic. Unless you move to specific places in the USA.

Therefore you should study first and only after doing so would you be able to choose adequately.

>>587467

well i kinda liked the kjv because i felt it talks about various passages in the scripture correctly (where as other versions dont), the only problem with it being i cant understand it half the time because im a brainlet

kj21 is just earlier to understand and presumably says the same things. im sure ill abandon it for a better bible version in the future, and further still eventually ill relearn hebrew and learn greek so i can quote from the original scriptures directly

>>586286

>doing things that are either not mentioned in scripture or completely go against

I dunno you but

>Pompous decor

The tabernacle had GOLD CHERUBIM on it.

>Baptizing of infants

The sign of alliance with God(Aka: Circumcision) was when you were 8 days old in the old testament. Even if children also couldn't have faith at that time, It didn't matter then and it won't matter now.

Those other things mentioned are church tradition since the beginning of it. Disregard 2 Thessalonians 2:15(Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter) at your own risk.

>>587456

>heh, you have to be delusional to think that most churches arent cucked

Never claimed that, this is why the thread exists. But you already explained your illiteracy with >>587475 "because im a brainlet" - hence, case closed.

>>587470

My reasons aren't shallow. All I will find are some well made and elaborate rationalizations, but no (valid) reasoning with scripture. Those supposedly superficial aspects still have a huge importance for Ortholics. Nonetheless, I'll read up on it when I am in the mood to do so.

>>587478

>The tabernacle had GOLD CHERUBIM on it

Yet there was only ONE tabernacle and ONE temple. I do not know, but I assume the synagoges did not have pompous decor. Also, God explicitly told Moses how to design and build the tabernacle. I highly doubt that all those pompous Ortholic churches ought to look like they do because God said so.

With Jesus' crucifixion the old contract has been fulfilled, this is why there is no need for a substitute of infant baptizing. Circumcision was a sign of keeping the contract between God and Abraham, and the blessing He had promised him. It was a matter of faith for the who appointed or executed the circumcision, as well as belonging to and obeying the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

>muh tradition

And where is infant baptizing as substitude to circumcision mentioned? Where is the worship of mortals and deceased mentioned? Where is the succession of Peter and its lone rulership over the church mentioned?

>>587682

Sad that despite this being true, we have PRfags on this board that clutch their pearls at any western Christian that's "anti-gay"

>>587652

> Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

what He tried to say with this

>>587686

1. make disciple

2. have them baptized

3. teach them to observe all things commanded

Why baptize someone who's not yet a follower? Why doesn't the RCC just hire crop dusters if belief isn't a prerequisite?

>>582557

Attend an SSPX mass. Problem solved.

>>587652

>My reasons aren't shallow.

Yes they are.

>elaborate rationalizations

It's called knowing how to read, and most of all, understanding language.

>reasoning with scripture

That's exactly what was given to you by the other posters. Valid scriptural reasoning.

>And where is infant baptizing as substitute to circumcision mentioned?

John, Peter and Paul. If you have baptism as the first rite of passage while disregarding circumcision as the infant rite, guess what.

>Where is the worship of mortals and deceased mentioned?

Reverence =/= Worship. Was already there since the time of Moses.

>>587688

so you take some things literally like a robot, but some others not.

quite interesting case

>>587693

Where's the metaphor? If a man isn't a follower of Christ he has no business being baptized (Romans 6:4) with Him.

>baby baptism is nu-circumcision

Romans 2:29

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

1 Corinthians 7:19

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Galatians 5:6

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Why wouldn't Paul address the new ritual that we have to undergo in the New Testament? Didn't mention babies there either.

>>587699

>God in flesh

Check

>Commands to proselytize and baptize in a clear way

No check because, MUH BIBLE

comfy to be you

>>587691

>Yes they are.

No, they aren't. Try to refute accordingly if you want me to think otherwise.

>It's called knowing how to read, and most of all, understanding language

I don't think you know what a rationalization is.

>reasoning with scriptures

So far, it's only valid if you bend over backwards.

>If you have baptism as the first rite of passage while disregarding circumcision as the infant rite, guess what.

So, it is your conclusion and not according to scripture. Nowhere does it say to baptize infants.

>Reverence =/= Worship. Was already there since the time of Moses.

You're just playing with words, and aren't even good at it. Worship and reverence are synonymous. Since the time of Moses? You mean to reverence The Golden Calf?

>>587682

Your post only addresses bigger churches then, not the smaller, private ones. Have you visitied every single church in Germanistan to make such a claim? No, of course not. Also, being smug and posting gay anime reaction pics with a cuckchan image-ID isn't anything to be proud of, you cuck.

>>587701

>MUH BIBLE

if this is your stance then it's not worth the typing

have a good weekend

>>587652

>The tabernacle was a exception

Its you who's doing the mental gymnastics now, not me.

Also saying that "X WAS A EXCEPTION" when it wasn't is evil, mind you. Very evil, since the first thing it does is separate us form the context of the laws that were given to us, since what people do defines how they interpreted the law of the Prophets.

Also, circumcision was supposed to be a sign of your alliance with god, now baptism is supposed to be a sign of your alliance with God.

And remember that, again, this is rather hypocritical. You decided according to your own bible reading that deciding there was no child baptism because of your own interpretation(See >>587688 ), but when we do it ITS HERESY REEEEEE.

>>587652

>Circumcision was a sign of keeping the contract between God and Abraham

Exactly, and according to Romans 4:13-17 and Galatians 3:15-18 we are members of the Abrahamic covenant.

>And where is infant baptizing as substitude to circumcision mentioned?

Romans 4:11, Colossians 2:11-12

>>587688

The object of disciple, baptize and teach is nations, not individuals. We are commanded to convert whole nations, and baptize them as part of their conversion. The Baptist idea that there is no such thing as a Christian nation is clearly refuted, and it means the Christian infants of the Christian nation are to receive baptism as the sign of the covenant between God and them (sounds kinda like circumcision, huh?).

>>587702

>No, they aren't. Try to refute accordingly if you want me to think otherwise.

They already did.

>I don't think you know what a rationalization is.

You are autistic. The whole point is that they didn't use rationalization, but logic.

>So far, it's only valid if you bend over backwards

[citation needed]

>>582988

Churches that willingly help invaders should be ignored.

>>587765

>How?

What do you mean how? That's literally what Christ says.

http://biblehub.com/matthew/28-19.htm

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/28-19.htm

Shouldn't we just eagerly obey Christ's command instead of questioning it?

>it seems that Charlemagne and Constantine types lead to nominal Christianity.

You could say evangelism leads to nominal Christianity, since their children whom they raise in the Church might not have any faith, but might still practice. Without the blessing of God, nobody will become a true Christian.

>>587770

What do you mean what do I mean?

How do you make a disciple of a nation, unless you make a disciple of everyone in that nation? I'm happy to eagerly obey, but why can't I evangelize individuals in the nations of the world as per parallel passages in Mark and Acts? Seems like you're using Matthew out of context there.

>>587773

>How do you make a disciple of a nation, unless you make a disciple of everyone in that nation?

You disciple a nation by discipling such a large majority of it that the nation is accurately described as Christian.

>why can't I evangelize individuals in the nations of the world

You should, that's how you evangelize the nation.

>>587774

>accurately

>majority

Are there any nations in 2018 that you would consider Christian?

>You should, that's how you evangelize the nation

That's the baptist way of looking at things, yeah

>>587776

>Are there any nations in 2018 that you would consider Christian?

No. However, there are nations which seem to be moving toward or have a chance to be Christian

>>587781

Honestly I kinda expected you to say Poland. I hope they do well. Just to sate my own curiosity, would you consider any nation in the last 2000 years a Christian nation?

And in light of the 3 direct commission passages, what do you think of S.Anderson (and other baptist groups, he's just very prolific) soul-winning field trips to Guyana and the UK etc?

>>587786

>would you consider any nation in the last 2000 years a Christian nation?

Lots

>what do you think of S.Anderson (and other baptist groups, he's just very prolific) soul-winning field trips to Guyana and the UK etc?

Well their hearts are in the right place, but Anderson preaches a false lawless gospel so that's a problem with his missions. Don't know about other groups though, so I won't judge.

>>587716

>but when we do it ITS HERESY REEEEEE.

That's because it's objectively wrong, not subjective.

>>587728

>Colossians 2:11-12

Which says "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

We live in a world of absolutes. There is no half baptism, either it is or it is not. And why would anyone go to a church that doesn't even baptize its members? All in the name of some tradition?

>>587832

I don't see your point

>>587840

Yeah you're just trying to say everything is subjective when it really isn't.

https://cruxnow.com/global-church/2018/01/11/german-bishop-urges-church-debate-blessing-sex-unions/

Alright guys, I was in a a very small independent church today and unfortunately I didn't like it. The sermons had a shallow message overall (gospel, pray for heathens, do always good and yadda yadda without going into any specifics whatsoever). One thing that weirded me the fuck out were the prayers because in all prayers everyone in the church was speaking in tongues. The leading (or rather loudest) prayer by the preacher contained the word Jesus, Lord or savior in every fourth word. In the youth Bible study afterwards they analyzed every verse of the first chapter of Romans; their semantics were unbearable and couldn't be more pseudo-intellectual. For the pussy I am, I didn't say anything against and decided to stay until the end and never come again.

>>588986

Mark 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

Not that it matters since the argument against the "non-protestants" was so bad I believe you might be deliberately in denial about it

>>588986

Bet you they don't believe in the trinity either

>>589021

It'd be my gamble, based on the fact that what you described closely resembles the oneness pentacostal church that my in-laws attend

>>589027

Pardon me anon, I misread your post before and thought you implied I don't believe in the trinity. But I won't come again. Or maybe, maybe it was God's will to come to this church and teach the people there something better, even though it might be in vain. The dialogues have been a little heated when I stated that there are many Bible translations out there that pervert the doctrine and my dialogue partner said that God won't allow to let something like that happen, and even if it was the case that the love and faith to God alone matter, not necessarily what might or what might be not changed in The Bible. I'm tempted to go again and say them why speaking in tongues is unbiblical, but it might be in vain.

>>589062

If God burdens your heart to try to correct their folly, good for you. Based on my experience with pentacostals, if that's what they are, they have a lot of really dangerous central beliefs. Tongues are like a tertiary issue that you probably won't even be able to prove wrong if they'll happily pull from any weird translation they can get their hands on.

>>582557

Papism is honestly trash, but Orthodoxy is great. Pity there isn't a German Orthodox Church.

>>588986

Were they from the list that I linked?

>>589542

Nah, it was a recommendation from a gal that goes there. I couldn't find a church nearby with your list and the only Baptist church in my area has a bad preacher there - it's like he has suspended animation because he's probably over 200 years old.

>>592072

You can't do that. As a Christian you have an obligation to your community, this is the point of going to church. Find the one you like best, become proficient at theology and debate your pastor. You have only your parents and grandparents to blame, they didn't go to church, and so (unfortunately) it started to cater to hippies and closet atheists.

You have to take the good and the bad, this is what a Christian lives means, shouldering the burden that is too great for others.

>>592774

>Find the one you like best

Do you even live in Germany or in another comparably cucked country? It is very hard to find churches that aren't kiked or cucked into oblivion. I'm contemplating to study theology and having my own church in Germany that is genuinely Christian if it is that what it takes.

>be a german

>be a protestant

>all your churches are a joke

>fuck orthodox and catholics though

<breathes in

>>594256

go jerk off next to your bible luthercuck german shill.

>>582557

Just go to Poland

>>594256

To deny the Apostles is to deny the Holy Spirit. And what is the unpardonable sin, de801f?

your next line is…

>>603857

With my situation it's a choice between churches that have some liberal agenda or churches with some secret sect branding on the church like Freemasons or Jesuits. The best would be to keep searching till you find one that doesn't have those shills.

>>603867

>The best would be to keep searching till you find one that doesn't have those shills

That's off limits, since there are literally none that aren't like that.

>>603876

There are ortho, baptist churches or the generic christ only churches out there. You just have to watch out that they don't sneak something in.

>>603857

Depends what your options exactly are.

Catholic/Orhodox - great choices even if the priest is liberal/cucked.

The point is to find the adequate liturgy (eucharist, mass) not to find 'based preacher'

If you're left only with Prots(no eucharist - no mass) I guess it's better than nothing I'd go there.

However if possible, seek the Catholic or Orthodox church - even if you'll meet less people, even if you'll have to travel more.

It is worth it.

>>582610

>Don't become lutheran - or protestant in general - become Catholic. Protestantism is autistic, and to a large extend unbiblical, screeching. See women "priests" and "bishops", see pro-lgbt agenda and the like. Most importantly, they let themselves abuse and make tools of politics, such as "orthos", too.

This post just called all Protestants autistic and implied the whole of Orthodoxy is a tool of the state.

If >>585827 was banned, this deserves a ban as well.

>>604093

>It is worth it.

>idolatry is worth it

I can't even.

Glad I'm not in your shoes OP. I don't think I have any beneficial advice to give, I'll pray for God to help you though.

>>582557

><misguided

who's t0 say your version of what is right is right and there's isn't?

On the question whether it is a good idea to voluntarily join the EKD without being born into it, here's the short answer: DON'T. Southern Germany has some independent Lutheran Churches though.

Check these out if you are actually convinced that the Reformation was right:

http://www.selk.de/index.php/partnerkirchen

Given that you are in Southern Germany, the saner decision would be giving the Catholic Church a shot. Joining one of the Orthodox churches outside of the big cities could be a little tougher. I have done some research myself.