Orthodoxy and caesaro-papism

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Orthodoxy and caesaro-papism Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 18:17:31 c1e723 No.582442

What do Orthodox think of the Catholic critique of Orthodoxy, that by lacking a Pope the Orthodox church can become a tool of the government? The nature of Catholic papacy means that it will never submit to a worldly power. Are Catholics correct?

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 18:29:09 95de1d No.582446

>>582442

why doesn't the pope qualify as a worldly power?

he's the leader of a nation, so why wouldn't he be?

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 18:43:41 c1e723 No.582451

>>582446

I guess the argument would be it was given/forced upon them by God so the church's allegiance isn't to this world, even though it is in the world. The Pope doesn't submit to any other authority, even if he is an authority. The Orthodox don't have this almost constitutional separation so they're open caesaro-papism, submitting itself to an worldly authority.

I'm asking because there are some bright Orthodox here and I'd like to know what is their response to the question of caesaro-papism.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 18:51:13 8e86ba No.582456

>The nature of Catholic papacy means that it will never submit to a worldly power.

>What is the Avignon Papacy?

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 20:19:10 483926 No.582500

a "worldly" power maybe, but not resistant to ideas such as ecumenicalism or being progressive

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 21:29:11 6cd4ce No.582523

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>>582442

> The nature of Catholic papacy means that it will never submit to a worldly power.

*cough* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Papacy *cough*

And HRE and Avignon tried and semi-succeeded in doing the same thing.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 21:46:37 059ebb No.582531

It is certainly possible for any formal denomination to become a tool of the government or an other worldly power. All they have to do is infiltrate the heirarchy and they've subverted all the churches. That's why you let the churches be independent of one another and have the word of God as the final authority.

Christanon 01/02/18 (Tue) 21:57:30 94f615 No.582536

>>582531

This. Just because your church doesn't say that it's subservient to the government/whatever other worldly power, doesn't mean it hasn't been corrupted.

An anon was arguing a while back that it was fine for the pope to be bowed to by the kings of the earth because it was a cultural thing and he would have been seen as bizarre, but culture should always conform to scripture.