/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

They probably don't support actual Gnosticism, the Gnostic were heavily persecuted and their authentic traditions are probably lost

>>579223

That is another important point. Gnostics believe (based on their corrupted understanding of The Republic) that they should form an elite with the ignorant masses slaving away below them. Their doctrines are meant to be secret teachings , and they often form into secret societies. Freemasons are probably the biggest

>>579204

All gnosticism that came to us, description by his inquisitors.

this is to study Judaism in the works of Dr. Goebbels.

The modern Gnostics call "them worse than the devil"

because they say that the reason is not in the fall of man but evil is hidden in the metaphysical nature of God.

>>579204

>>579309

Nice le epic troll ecksdee

>>579319

>literally believing this trash of a shit world is because a man ate an apple

Kek

If the YRR types keep gaining ground, Gnosticism will be a major component of Protestantism before too long. I have hope the neo-Calvinist cancer is starting to subside, but its continued influence is a worrying thing.

>>579333

Is this the "Calvinism is Gnosticism" meme?

>>579333

Gnostic errors are already mainstream in much of Protestantism

>>579348

Not Calvinism proper but there are tons of pseudo-Calvinistic churches that have a loose form of Calvinism that open themselves up to tons of ridiculous heresies and errors which Calvin himself would've condemned.

>>579362

Specifics please?

I did not find the original.

%%myths of mankind: a christianity before christianity%%

>>579379

This is true.

in the context of Abrahamic religions, even the devil is not so bad.

>>579364

In the most general sense i'll reference the main sentiments I've seen. The idea and pursuit of gnosis is often syncretically combined with the importance of studying the scriptures. I've often heard people say things like "I've got to unlock these scriptures" in a literal manner or such that implies that God's truth is obscured or hidden and must be sought rather than bluntly available to all.

There is also often an utter rejection of the physical because the world is tainted by our sin, instead putting all value solely in the intellect(goes along with above). Ignoring that God created the physical and that its goodness which we partake in glorifies him. We are a unity of body mind and soul and what effects one of these things effects the others, it is not healthy to discard the physical which is discarding an inherent goodness made by God which is core to our being. For example, the common perception that wealth is inherently bad by itself is a result of this. Rather than it being the love of it over God that is bad, the love of creation rather than Creator, idolatry. Instead it's a rejection of creation.

What I mean by pseudo-Calvinism is basically Calvinistic conclusions de-contextualized from the reasoning behind them which leaves holes in them and makes them compatible with all sorts of weird harmful nonsense, syncretism.

Gnosticism is incredibly subversive and it's hard to properly explain its effect in this post without completely dissecting every altered nuance and presupposition from tainted doctrine. There is a book called "Against the Protestant Gnostics" written by a typical liberal Presbyterian no less which gives a decent overview of how Gnostic elements permeated American Protestantism which then got exported elsewhere. I've only skimmed it and the book kind of meanders and isn't very well written in parts but it gives a decent overview. I recommend at least skimming it to get an idea of the Gnostic influences.

>>579379

There are tons of different flavors of Gnosticism all with their own specific details but one thing is always consistent. Gnosticism directly or indirectly and to different degrees of severity, states that God is either imperfect or outright evil. It is clearly demonic and praise God he's shown you the truth.

I've never seen anyone supporting gnosticism on /pol/

>>579422

They do. They just don't know that's what it's called. They think they came up with something wholly original, but it's just Gnosticism with frog memes.

>>579433

You're talking about Gnosticism on a /christian/ board. Are you telling me about general Gnosticism, unrelated to Christianity? If so, it's an incredibly broad category. Is /pol/ becoming Buddhistic?

>>579437

/pol/ is directionless and lost, clinging desperately to a crumbling edge.

>>579220

Unrelated but you do know that image is mostly about Catholic/Orthodox doctrine right? It even lists the 7 books of the Old Testament protestants call "apocrypha".

>>579490

I made that picture. I might begome, but it’s up in the air rn

>>576624

>>579494

And a reformation edition is coming, just give it some time

>>579422

You're either new or blind then.

>>579508

Gnosticism implies a disdain for the physical world.

How can I stop thinking about gnosticism?

The universe is cold and cruel if evolution is true

>>579327

>Paganism for LARPers

But Paganism already is pure LARPing

>>579542

Yes, that's on /pol/ in abundance as well.

>>579433

I wouldn't call Kek worshipers Gnostics…

>>579887

>>579433

Kek worshipping is a different thing. /pol/ and /x/ people have supported gnosticism for a while. They call it being "greenpilled"

>>579863

That's a new one.

>>579894

What king of Gnosticism are you talking about?

>>579204

>muh Jesus is the Demiurge

>muh Jesus is actually the Devil

>muh God is a psychofuck

<apologies, Father.

>>579204

I feel like every thread about gnosticism is a dogwhistle for gnostics to talk about gnosticism & they all use different flags…

Gnosticism is kinda cool but dangerous, and they get many ideas wrong. It is much better to simply study the pure Neoplatonic philosophy and also Eastern Orthodox mystical philosophy.

>>579918

>>579924

Theosophy is the connection between the world government and the New Age world religion. I don't know if it has Gnostic pieces in it, but it has themes of gnosis.

>>579920

They believe that God is the Demiurge and everyone is a God and that Jesus is the higher self.

>>579226

Freemasons are Gnostics???

I think may have that one wrong.

Does anyone have that long video that explains all of what gnostics believe? One where the narrator says " i believe it's the most accurate religion."

>>580028

It's just their lack of understanding of the ideas they're against.

>>580043

Gnosticism can basically boil down to two things:

1. Disdain for physical existence

2. Salvation through gnosis, or knowledge

From that you can get a very diverse range of "understandings".

>>580023

Oh, I've come across some gnostics that believe that Jesus is actually Satan and "he is not who we think he is".

The best refutation possible for the Demiurge found in the Scriptures is Jesus Flesh and Blood.

How can material world be purely evil if it contains at least part of Jesus body?

But Protestantism drops this.

>>580278

I feel like you’re trying to make a point against Protestantism rather than Gnosticism here. Like all Christians, Protestants believe that God created the world and that it was good until it was corrupted by man’s pride. They believe God took on physical form. If these basic beliefs of Christianity don’t convince the gnostic, neither will transubstantiation.

>>579220

Fuck you.

>Christian

>Still taking credit for pagans

>Won't even cite all of them

Christianity is trash, your only values stem from the pagan philosophy present prior to your takeover, if you disagree then explain why Ethiopia, one of the earliest Christian kingdoms/empires was so irrelevant and fruitless?

You need to include pagans because without it, you would only have batshit, vapid drivel about talking snakes. Plato made allegories to explain things. The stories were educational, meanwhile Christianity is the opposite where you need to change reality to fit your stupid story, e.g creationists to this day, insisting fossils are a test of faith/planted by the devil, all because their book says the world was made in 7 days, men made from dirt, women made from ribs, and suffering because our ancestors ate a fig tree in a magic garden, even though god hypothetically knew this would happen, and decided to punish unborn people because he is love, and nothing says love like punishment for being born.

Your "Church Fathers" were fucking HUGE fanboys of the likes of Cicero, but hey let's not include that, lest we highlight the chasm of quality between pagan philosophy, and Christian "philosophy" where gems like Augustine talk about evil babies, and Kirkegard tries to defend God asking a man to murder his son as a test, even though God supposedly being omnipotent, wouldn't need this.

Oh and Marcus Aurelius was totally irrelevant to that image, Christian persecution increased under him and the only reason you list him, is because he is babies first stoic, and one of the most loved and respected men in history, an idol for you to attach to to prop up Christianity. But hey, that's your only genuine tradition, churches are pagan temples (mosques are Hagia Sophia copy pasted), your gift giving at Christmas was ripped from saturnalia, and your apostles even brag about copying pagan elements to win followers.

Stop citing pagan philosophy as Christian. You faggots killed that philosophy, and the culture that spawned it. Your need to include entirely separate things, to prop up your religion just shows how weak it is, unable to stand alone. Feel free to post some shit about Loki and Odin being fags, Norse paganism was always trash, and you can't touch Greco-Roman philosophy. All you could do is sling shit at Zeus (Irrelevant) and degenerates, who many Greeks and Roman historians/philosophers/orators/emperors already despised and spoke against.

Stop being parasites, pagan philosophy is pagan, if you disagree then you should stop crying "muh Byzantium" and "muh Islam is heresy", they just twist your works and take credit, like you do to pagans.

Feel free to ban me, other boards already laugh at your echo chamber, feel free to further validate those views. But banning me won't make your religion any less vapid when you remove the pagan parts.

>>580818

Christianity is the rightful inheritor of true philosophy and there’s nothing you can do about it lmao

>>580818

God bless your little boots

>>579220

What books are best to understand basic concepts of gnosticism and what are books used for debunking? Your work is great!

>>580869

Irenaeus' Against Heresies

>>580869

For ancient gnosticism, the Nag Hammadi Library is the most extensive collection of gnostic scriptures. Elaine Pagels is an influential figure in modern-day gnosticism, she wrote The Gnostic Gospels and Adam, Eve, and the Serpent. Manly P. Hall is a renowned mystic, he wrote The Secret Teaching of All Ages, which is a big tome for gnostic teachings. It should be noted that new age spirituality, theosophy, and freemasonry all have their roots in gnosticism.

For books against gnosticism, Against Heresies by Irenaeus is one of the oldest and most known. It's also called "On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis," and is still one of the most thorough examinations of gnosticism. Before the discovery of the Nag Hammadi library, it was the only large source of gnostic teaching. For more modern perspectives, the Roman Catholic Church published a book called A Christian Perspective On The New Age, and this book was so good even the Southern Baptist Convention came out to endorse it. Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion is another good one, even though it more focuses on theosophy specifically. One book I haven't read at all but found looking up books against gnosticism was Demonic Gospels: The Truth about the Gnostic Gospels by Ken Johnson. I don't know how good it is, as I hadn't heard of it until now

Probably a bigger problem is with the mundane politics of the patristic period and assuming the possibility of it, to guess how much the approve precepts and practices are genuine derivatives from scripture and not just an unspiritual method of differentiating themselves from opponents. It could also go for Christianity as a whole.

Gnosticism appears to be a blending of eastern and western religion and philosophy. Their scriptures seem dubious though but the fact is that a blending of philosophy and religion took place anyway after the Gnostics had pretty much disappeared.

Also even the canonicity of scripture has continually been under dispute throughout all of its history.

>>579204

How does /pol/ promote gnosticism?

>>580946

By posting on image boards

>>580873

So Islam is the correct religion then, or atheism. I mean it's widespread so it must be right.

>>580846

Pretty good because that response shows you can't fucking read. Hint, I hate Norse pagans and their shitty horsefucker gods.

>>580832

And communism, liberalism, postmodernism, Islam and materialism are the true inheritors of Christianity. I would include Zionism, but we all know that's a core tenant of your kind. Enjoy being replaced as you think it's a numbers game, because I assure you, Christianity won't be last man standing. If numbers meant a damn, democracy would work. You would think a religion that literally states the devil has the power over this world, would probably think twice about the popularity arguments (and while you think Christianity has power, you can clearly see the NWO subversion all over it, you're puppets, always have been). Or is it the "see, it's been around so long" which you can disprove just by looking at any modern sect, and given Plato predates Jesus and is still around…

Personally I'm fine with you guys shitting everything up, you deserve it for worshipping your Proto-Marxist Jew. I'm just calling you out on your plagarism and parasitism, trying to take credit for pagans who would see your religion for the joke it was. Hence why you include an emperor who was in power after Christianity and didn't care about them being killed.

>>580873

Good thing I don't worship Odin then, isn't it, you cunt.

>Christianity did more for white culture

Indeed, remember when Jesus was the father of philosophy? Oh wait, pagan.

Mathematics? Oh right, you only have Pascal who only had faith because of a wager, meanwhile Pythagorus and other (autistic cultists) came up with theorems and. other rules still used today.

Science is mixed, you had Mendel, but you also dragged everything back after Rome, even now we haven't fully recovered and we lost time.

The languages we use are Latin and in some cases the Greek alphabet. Notice the lack of relevance of Hebrew and Aramaic?

But the 30 years war, and various other wars were great, thanks for that. Remember to take credit for fighting off Muslims when really it was the Mongol Horde and you preferred to murder Poles and other Europeans as Muslims killed Christians from the Middle East to Western Europe.

Rome and Greece are the fathers of western civilisation, that's why even your corrupt, repulsive Church speaks LATIN despite its Semitic origins. That's why baptists see you as pagan because of all the stuff you added to win over pagans, that's why the Vatican is where it is, because of Rome. Not Jerusalem, not Bethlehem, Rome. Again even your beloved church fathers, huge pagan fanboys. Imitation is the highest form of flattery they say, you may not want to admit it, but your cult has always been a foreign group jealous of Roman and Greek glory. Not the warlike kind, but the spiritual, theological kind. Even your "virtues" stem from the cardinal virtues, and then Rome added more to them. Nothing new under the sun, from your "values" to your "messiah" and your monotheism. Nothing new, atleast Buddha was original. Dead wrong, but original.

>>580948

>I mean it's widespread so it must be right

>Enjoy being replaced as you think it's a numbers game, because I assure you, Christianity won't be last man standing. If numbers meant a damn, democracy would work.

>You would think a religion that literally states the devil has the power over this world, would probably think twice about the popularity arguments

You’re arguing against a hallucination. Nobody was arguing for Christianity being right because it’s widespread, and nobody was arguing for it being a numbers game. The rest of your post is autistically screeching about a chart you don’t understand hint: in addition to Roman philosophy, it also includes the Nag Hammadi scriptures and the Quran. Almost as if it’s a chart of all relevant historical figures in the development of Christianity, and isn’t claiming that these philosophers are Christian

>>580948

>>580818

Let us know when you're done attacking Roman Catholicism and ready to move on to the word of God.

>>581014

>Mongols fighting off muslims?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)

>>581057

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granada_War

Spanish Catholics destroying muslims

>>581092

You can't compare that with how Ghengis fucked entire empires up.

>>581057

Funny you should mention that. Hulagu Khan's wife was a (Nestorian) Christian (Hulagu himself may or may not have been, at least up until his deathbed conversion to some variety of Buddhism) and there was a substantial amount of (again, Nestorian) Christians within the Ilkhanate's hierarchy.

There was even an attempt to form an alliance with the Franks on the grounds of their (sort of) common faith.