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File: f097b5b3e8f7d2b⋯.jpg (46.85 KB, 720x720, 1:1, 1502254860005.jpg)

3b4d34 No.577059

I don't anticipate going into too much detail but basically

>be casual Catholic

>started intensifying faith and seeking more firm faith in God (Rosary, reading scripture, researching theology) during the last few months

>start to question things like the infallibility of the Pope, Novus Ordo, Vatican II

>general liberal-leaning and straying from tradition of the Catholic church is disappointing me

>at a point in my life where I am beginning to consider Orthodoxy or Sedevacantism

I'm open minded to all answers from either Catholics, Orthodox, or Sedevacantists. I've tried finding answers but these new traditions of the church are almost repulsive to me.

I also saw this video and thought it was interesting. I know, however, that not all Novus Ordo masses are treated equal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWo-7uVR8yI

dfdb93 No.577062

>>577059

This exact thing happened to me about a year ago, but then I actually started going to mass and realised the Dimond brothers were just liars.

http://cklc.weebly.com/uploads/9/5/6/8/9568822/feature_-_salzas_rebuttal_of_dimond_on_sedevacantism_2.pdf


f91cc0 No.577064

From an outside perspective, Sedevacantism seems ridiculous. The entire dogma of the Catholic Church almost hinges upon the belief that it is infallible and cannot be conquered. I don't know if this is true, but I'm dumbfounded how some sect that proclaims itself as Catholic could simultaneously hold and reject this belief, which is essentially what Sedevacantism does.


3b4d34 No.577068

File: 52ae244f7b2cd32⋯.png (247.44 KB, 900x867, 300:289, 1498282051499.png)

>>577064

>>577062

After reading that article, I can see how the Dimond brothers aren't a strong source. And I agree with

>>577064

That Catholicism hinges around infallibility of the Pope, but I don't see how this has to be the case. I know Jesus made Peter the leader of the Apostles, but he didn't necessarily make him and his throne infallible. The immaculate conception is also something I am not too familiar about. Make sense that Jesus might've had to be born without original sin, but I don't know. Purgatory is something else that isn't explicitly expressed in the bible. Previous popes and church figures have heavily emphasized how vital it is to retain church tradition but Vatican II completely eliminated said tradition.


d787c4 No.577071

>>577059

They're not called the memestary for nothing. They have a very poor grasp of history.


ba2605 No.577072

File: f4ac8358566cd86⋯.jpg (68.26 KB, 700x437, 700:437, C-nAkUvXsAEXc1M.jpg)

>>577059

Check out the Catholic Encyclopedia if you have problems regarding any particular doctrine; it's a fantastic and very clearly written source of information.

It's true that at first the teachings of VII seem different from the teachings that the Church has previously preached; this impression fades away when one gets a solid understanding of the theology behind this issue.


9f497a No.577076

>>577059

Vatican II by itself was actually pretty fine

the NO Mass as envisaged by V2 was based off an earlier form of the Mass rather than a new invention

unfortunately it took place around the same time a lot of modernists entered the Church and these modernist priests often butcher the Mass under the guise of the "spirit of V2". To add to that V2 was originally going to be more orthodox but the Rhine group blocked a number of documents, including a condemnation of communism, that were originally going to be part of V2.

In regards to papal infallibility, bear in mind it only applies to dogma and ex cathedra statements. The general idea is that the Lord wouldn't allow His vicar to lead the Church into error. Unfortunately, a lot of people, including Catholics, take this to mean that the Pope is always infallible, which is bordering on heresy and is absurd.

If you are going to leave the Church though, which I wouldn't advise (extra Ecclesiam nulla salus etc. I'd advise instead going to TLM or extraordinary form Mass instead of NO if you dislike NO) then Orthodox is at least better than sedememes.

TL;DR: V2 itself is fine, but has been misinterpreted and the actual documents of V2 are often ignored in favor of the so-called "spirit of V2", the NO when done correctly is mostly fine and Papal Infallibility does make some sense, though it needs to be more emphasised just how limited it is.

>>577068

It doesn't hinge on infallibility of the Pope.

>Purgatory is something else that isn't explicitly expressed in the bible.

While purgatory isn't expressly talked about in the Bible, there are parts that indicate that there is probably a purgatory.

We know that Hell is eternal, for example, however in 2 Maccabees 12 the following is said (along with other references to praying for the dead):

"It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."

and:

"(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)"

How can someone be loosed from sins if Hell is eternal punishment?

It makes little sense unless there is some way by which sins are cleansed, else there would be no need to pray for the dead, no?

We are also told in Matthew:

"Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny"

Which is likely referring to purgatory

we are also told that nothing unclean may enter heaven, but very few people are entirely sinless so how else could we sinners enter heaven?

But by cleansing and penance perhaps?

Several Church fathers also referred to praying for the dead on the anniversary of their death and such. If the souls had already been received into heaven there would be no need and if the souls were condemned to hell then what would be the purpose? Hell is eternal after all.

>Vatican II completely eliminated said tradition.

As said above, spirit of Vatican II versus what Vatican II actually said. The documents of Vatican II are fine, the interpretation by the liberal modernists is the issue.


3a597f No.577078

>>577068

Church tradition is the body of church teachings and the traditions of the church fathers. Infallible church tradition is more like the dogmas expressed by the Church through councils and sometimes, though rarely, through papal declaration. Vatican II didn't change anything. Church tradition doesn't mean acting like a tradcath and going to latin mass.


94038a No.577079

>>577059

>or Sedevacantism

Well at least you recognize Sedevacantism isn't Catholicism


3e4bb5 No.577081

Stay where you are. Jumping around for your own political reasons is tantamount to treating your faith as a piece of clothing which should be replaced at a whim – it should not be. If you were born into or received into the Catholic Church, it is your home; you are a part of the mystical body. Just like how we cannot cut off a piece of our physical body without pain, so it is with the mystical body of Christ.

Let our Orthodox brothers be as they are; they are doing fine without tourists. Sedevacantists, however, are using doctrine for their own political purposes: keep them at an arm's length.

>>577076

This Anon gets it.


b7b1bb No.577086

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

There is a channel on Youtube called Sensus Fidei. It's run by traditional catholic and have recordings of various conferences, sermons and other things that should help you in your dark night.

Here, have first of thier video series upon Vatican II. It's enlighting really.


63f56d No.577087

File: bae5e183d43b7bf⋯.png (457.28 KB, 484x750, 242:375, begomingordodox.png)

I was in a very similar place not too long ago. The only real option here is to begome ordodox :DDD


94038a No.577090

>>577081

>for your own political reasons

Can you explain how this stuff is political.


531dbb No.577097

>the church tends to disagree with my political leanings Im going to run off and join some heretical larp church so people on the internet cant make fun of me

T. Every sedevacantist/orthodox


d44c3c No.577100

File: d0ebfac638a9804⋯.gif (238.46 KB, 1900x1500, 19:15, abortion in Europe.gif)

>he thinks Eastern Orthodoxy is some bastion of tradition and conservatism

oh boy do i have some bad news for you

I'm a Slav from Eastern Europe and I can tell you I am glad not to be part of that mess of churches. They have more schisms between themselves than I can bother to keep up with and their collective approach to social morality is on par with the most modernist Catholic priest (they allow divorce up to 3x, they allow for contraception, there were periods in history where they allowed for abortions, etc).

>infallibility of the Pope

Well as I mentioned, the lack of the presence of the Vicar of Christ among the Orthodox churches resulted in what we see today. Numerous bishops and patriarchs in a struggle over power, yearly schisms between different churches, multiple bishops/patriarchs claiming the same titles, etc. It's a mess and they are like headless chickens running around because they do not submit to the successor of Saint Pope Peter.

Here's a brief and recent insight: "CHURCH OF ANTIOCH BREAKS OFF EUCHARISTIC COMMUNION WITH PATRIARCHATE OF JERUSALEM" (http://orthochristian.com/70416.html)

This is a normal occurrence over there.

Here's an article that I recommend you read, please let me know if you have any questions and I will be happy to help: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

>Novus Ordo and Vatican II

The NO is a valid Sacrifice of the Mass and V2 is a valid council. Both are traditional in nature and you'll have trouble finding anything that strays from beliefs always held by the Church, but the problem lies with the implementation of V2 and NO in various countries. You see, when these changes in the Church occurred (1960s and 1970s), the Church was struggling. Here in the east, the seminaries were being infiltrated by communists. In the west, the seminaries were being infiltrated by homosexuals and communists. These men became priests during these implementations and the main problems with liturgical abuse and heterodoxy lies with them.

Thankfully, that generation of priests is mostly gone and most young priests are very orthodox.

>>general liberal-leaning and straying from tradition of the Catholic church is disappointing me

Can you explain what you mean by this? As I mentioned before, the clump of

Orthodox churches around the world are by far more liberal-leaning in terms of theology and morality than even the most liberal Catholic bishop.


fdaf2c No.577106

>>577100

I'm not in a position to make any comment about the textual content of your post, but posting that image alongside it is wildly disingenuous. The extreme rates of abortion in Eastern Europe and Russia are a legacy of the Soviet Union, in which Christianity was actively torn apart and abortion was the main method of contraception. The Orthodox Church was persecuted terribly for most of the 20th Century andby the end of communism the spirit of the Russian people had been absolutely crushed. The Orthodox Church has been faced with the monumental task of picking up the pieces and restoring the faith as best it can. You simply cannot blame the degeneracy of the former Eastern Bloc on the Orthodox Church.


94038a No.577107

File: 82b511631a55fdc⋯.jpg (34.12 KB, 650x600, 13:12, f23849a3ab8812e70630bf426c….jpg)

>>577100

>Everything about the constant schisms

Are you serious?

You go around screaming how we constantly break communion with each other or something like that but when someone points out that there are liberal priests everywhere you go

>Both are traditional in nature and you'll have trouble finding anything that strays from beliefs always held by the Church, but the problem lies with the implementation of V2 and NO in various countries. You see, when these changes in the Church occurred (1960s and 1970s), the Church was struggling. Here in the east, the seminaries were being infiltrated by communists. In the west, the seminaries were being infiltrated by homosexuals and communists. These men became priests during these implementations and the main problems with liturgical abuse and heterodoxy lies with them.

Not to add that this problem you're saying here is legitimately the same >>577106 mentioned.

Basically "ITS OK WHEN WE DO IT"


3b4d34 No.577109

File: 6d4296f0a5544e5⋯.jpg (125.15 KB, 773x1032, 773:1032, 06a1f295b8577bf1ae6daa7fa1….jpg)

>>577100

Wow! I really enjoyed reading the new advent source regarding Papal infallibility and it cleared up alot of misconception. I also understand how bad implementation of NO can be accredited to outside sabotage. I suppose I was being a bit bitter regarding tradition and let my political beliefs get in the way of understanding NO and the Vatican 2 council. I suppose I still have some questions about purgatory and the immaculate conception if you are willing to clear those up? I appreciate this post however, and don't really have strong conviction against the papacy anymore.

>>577106

>>577107

I do have to agree with these Orthobros however that maybe you are being a tadbit too critical about faults in their faith. I do have to say though that Poland was under Communist rule aswell but despite a heavily secular rule managed to spiritually revive their Catholic faith.


7fd6dc No.577144

>>577100

>Serbia and Greece are alright

It's almost like the legacy of communism might be the problem and not Orthodoxy.


8e2848 No.577148

>>577100

>le abortion map

Regardless of the denomination, it is completely wrong to judge the truth of the faith by something like this. It is no different than saying "MUH INQUISITION or MUH GALILEO"


d44c3c No.577190

File: a4446278678b332⋯.jpg (210.24 KB, 975x768, 325:256, a141d6d8f8ec61d2141baf0d78….jpg)

>>577109

>I still have some questions about purgatory and the immaculate conception

Sure, I would be happy to!

I also urge you to give these two articles a read on purgatory: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm and immaculate conception: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

New advent is a great resource, I love to use it when researching the Church Fathers, as well. Here's an article about the papacy that might also be helpful: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm The reason I'm shilling it so hard is because it allowed me to learn more about Catholicism and grow in faith.

Your pic related and the talk of communism actually made me think of Venerable Cardinal Wyszyński (a friend of Saint Pope John Paul II) who is on his way to sainthood as of a few days ago. He helped preserve Catholicism in my country (Poland) and was imprisoned along with other priests by the militant atheist regime. For some reason I thought I should bring this up, haha. :D

May God bless you!

>>577106

>>577107

>>577144

I'm sorry if I came out lashing, but the truth is that every time I post this picture, I get the same response. Communism ended over a generation ago, which is enough time for the Orthodox Churches of those areas to be able to instill Christian morality in the youngest generation. Believe me, I hate abortion and I think it is one of the ugliest things in our world, that's why I want the Orthodox Churches to succeed in instilling this Christian morality. We are sadly not seeing that yet. For example, my country (Poland) was also ruled over by the militant atheist Communists. We are majority Catholic. Yet, recent polls for the 18-24 age group show that ~80% of the individuals want a ban on abortion. The map indicates a similar trend. The Church here is heavily involved in the society and it looks like that they were able to instill Christian morality in the last 30 years or so. What I'm getting at is that we should not claim that the Catholic Church is liberal-leaning and that the Orthodox Churches are not, when statistics and doctrines indicate otherwise (specifically Orthodox teaching on topics such as contraception and others, as I mentioned before).

The reason I'm bringing these topics is up because I considered converting to Eastern Orthodoxy for a long time and actually researching the religion made me remain as a Catholic.

>>577148

I addressed more of the problems in the post, though.


e9b768 No.577192

>>577059

Begome conservative reformed Luderan :DDDDD


3b4d34 No.577194

>>577190

I'm Polish too! My confirmation saint is Maximillian Kolbe. I really appreciate you helping me with this information, and I didn't know the cardinal was becoming a saint.


d44c3c No.577202

File: ba6b5ef5e85aa54⋯.jpg (17.37 KB, 423x601, 423:601, Kolbe.jpg)

>>577194

>I'm Polish too!

Oh neat, we are slowly taking over this server. Including you, there are like 7 of us here that I know of.

Which region are you from? I'm in Gdańsk.

>My confirmation saint is Maximillian Kolbe

Yeah, he is definitely one of the great saints right alongside JPII. I have both of their icons in my room!

>I really appreciate you helping me with this information

No problem, I went through the same thing as you not too long ago and I only hope to pass on the information. You should definitely keep NewAdvent handy, it is a great resource. Catholic Answers has also been great for me.

>and I didn't know the cardinal was becoming a saint.

It's always so exciting to have more saints from our country. He was a great man. http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/polish-cardinal-rosary-priest-among-sainthood-causes-moving-forward

I'm going to go pray right now and I will keep you in my prayers, friend.

Z Bogiem!


3b4d34 No.577222

>>577202

Parents came to the United States from the Kielce area. I know some Polish but I'm learning more on duolingo. God bless!


050636 No.577227

>>577059

>these new traditions of the church are almost repulsive to me

Unless you were a practicing Catholic prior to the 1960s, then you wouldn't know the difference. So you're either a Protestant who made this thread to sow discord or you're a really old man who needs to find a new church.


fdaf2c No.577354

>>577227

>What is reading?

or, if you prefer,

>these new traditions of anti-theism are almost repulsive to me

>'Unless you were a practicing atheist before the enlightenment in the 1700s, then you wouldn't know the difference'


db3d22 No.577479

>>577059

V2 certainly is the most divisive, ambiguous and generally controversial Council in the history of the Church. Actually, no Council is even close to it in that regard. Everything changed, the rites of sacraments, ecumenism, liberty of religion, loosening discipline, even the new theology. Today's Church is very much different from what it was 70 years ago.

Regarding the NO, I actually went to the old mass so I know how they compare. When I go to NO, I don't really participate except during the important parts. I don't 'respond' to the priest and such, that's my way of coping with it.


5a80ad No.577586

File: 59f792961016a6c⋯.png (36.52 KB, 396x400, 99:100, 59f792961016a6c1c87b7d5aa5….png)

>>577479

Like no sweetie


fcad28 No.581618

>>577109

Putting it mildly, the Polish communists were never able to inflict the kind of damage on the Catholic Church that the Russian Orthodox Church had to deal with.

Take for example, how in the Yakut/Sakha Republic, the Church was reduced from 200 parishes in 1917 to just a single functioning parish in the entire region. Several generations of people in most of Russia grew up with essentially zero exposure to Orthodoxy on any level, but plenty of Communist propaganda and sociology (including encouraging abortion as a contraceptive, because why not).


7fd6dc No.581620


d787c4 No.581622

>>577059

If you don't like the NO use you could look to extraordinary form or Anglican Use, both of which are increasing in popularity.


44f1ab No.581690

>>577100

I don't think it's fair to attribute the lower abortion rates of Western Europe to Catholicism. Hungary, for example, is more Catholic than many of the Western nations, yet it has a higher abortion rate than all of them. Another why abortion rates are so much lower in Western Europe is because Islam forbids abortion :^)


5a6f28 No.581699

Vatican II, Pope Francis, the various pedo-scandals, the infusion with paganism in Latin America, sedevanticism etc. are proof that the Catholic Church can't be the unassailable ONE TRUE CHURCH it claims to be.


12a3c4 No.581728

>>577190

>Communism ended over a generation ago, which is enough time for the Orthodox Churches of those areas to be able to instill Christian morality in the youngest generation.

It took centuries for the Orthodox missionaries to convert Russia to the point at which Christianity became the state religion, and that was when the population was pagan and thus already religiously-minded. To say that one generation is enough time to forget the legacy of communism and go straight back to widespread devout Orthodoxy is absurd, even given the technological advantages we have today.

The reason communism was able to stamp out the church was because it was so completely and violently totalitarian. Nobody in this thread so far has expressed the extent of the horrors that Christians were subjected to, especially during the first few decades. Churches in every city were ransacked, vandalised and demolished (in fact, the only reason St Basil's Cathedral wasn't destroyed is because Stalin never got around to deciding what he wanted to build in its place). Churches were looted to provide funds for the state. Celebrating the liturgy was illegal and had to be done in secret. Priests were denied all the basic benefits of social life because they had to renounce their religion in order to become Communist Party members. The communists whipped up anti-religious frenzies amongst workers and encouraged them to desecrate churches by, amongst other things, breaking into them at night in large groups and fornicating on the altars. Huge numbers of priests were exiled and others were murdered by being literally crucified on the doors of their parish churches. This started right at the very beginning of communist rule. In 1922 alone, 2,691 priests, 1962 monks and 3,447 nuns were executed by the state, and those figures don't even take into account 'unofficial' killings by rabid proletariat lynch mobs. The family unit was deliberately destroyed and sexual immorality widely encouraged by Soviet intellectuals during the 1920s. Rates of divorce (which left women in miserable poverty as their husbands abandoned them), venereal disease, abortion and the numbers of orphans reached such epidemic levels that Stalin was actually obliged to reverse a number of the 'liberations' of the 1920s in an effort to stop society from falling apart completely. But the damage continued to be done nontheless. Read up on 'The League of the Militant Godless' - the name says it all.

In 1990, there were 6.46 million abortions in the USSR and 4.85 million live births. Just think about that for a moment. More babies were being slaughtered in the womb than were being born.


12a3c4 No.581729

>>581728

>>577190

I cannot stress enough to you that the spirit of the Russian people died under communism. The immense apparatus of the state absolutely crushed anyone who tried to resist it. People turned to alcohol en masse to escape from the horror of their daily lives. It is well documented that there were open riots in many places when it was announced that the weekly vodka ration was delayed or canceled. Museums were set up to mock the Orthodox church, particularly the view that bodies of saints did not decompose (note here how much time and money the communists spent trying to prevent Lenin's corpse from rotting, as if to prove their atheistic science could do what God could not). Teaching religion to children was outlawed on pain of death, meaning that it is quite possible that if you are a Russian born in the 70s, 80s or 90s, neither your parents nor even your grandparents knew anything about the Christian faith at all,and therefore could not pass on any of it to you. Thus, you would have to start from scratch, in a country in which most of the churches were gone, most of the priests exiled, killed, or physically crippled by the Gulag, and in which for the past seventy years everyone around you of your parents' generation had been subjected to relentless anti-Christian propaganda. You also have to understand that this was not even just about Christianity, as William Henry Chamberlain wrote:

>"There have been many instances in history when one religion cruelly persecuted all others; ''but in Russia the world is witnessing the first effort to destroy completely any belief in supernatural interpretation of life."

The Catholic Church has never suffered to anything near this degree, and when it has suffered, it has had the advantage of a globally-centralised heirarchy of authority to recover, or in some cases fight back. It is truly a blessing that the Russian Orthodox Church now has 150 million members, a remarkable achievement if you actually understand what it has had to contend with, and one which should be understood as a truly great religious revival.

I apologise for the long post, but I cannot simply stand idle and let you get away which saying that 'one generation is enough time for the church to install Christian morality back into the youngest generation.' That is an extraordinarily ignorant and naive thing to say.


002024 No.581840

>>577148

Tbh it shows very well the weak moral enforcement the orthodox have when they teach social issues that are not related to homosexuality


8357ee No.581865

>>581699

Judas Iscariot, the Passion, and Crucifixion are proof that Jesus Christ cannot be the SON OF GOD he claims to be.

(all lies, same reasoning)


7bc9b4 No.581900

>>577086

Best YouTube channel.

>>577202

>Yeah, he is definitely one of the great saints right alongside JPII.

http://sspx.ca/en/news-events/news/canonization-doubts-john-xxiii-john-paul-ii-2637


d79bbd No.581906

>>581865

I dunno. I see this line tossed around here but I think it's apples and oranges.

Jesus' death and resurrection, including the role Judas played were direct fulfillment of prophesy, the active will of God for the salvation of mankind.

A pedo priest, a flawed church council, or day-of-the-dead South America nonsense can't really be put to the same standard, can it?

When Satan entered Judas Jesus said that thou doest do quickly. Could he say that to the sinners who sin under the banner of the RCC?


b14ac3 No.581907

File: 1f19004dc66e9b0⋯.jpg (6.87 KB, 250x241, 250:241, 1432724756686.jpg)

>>581900

>sspx.ca


a1ea60 No.581912

>>581907

Well, they do make sense in some areas.


56520a No.581915

>>581912

So does Satan.


a1ea60 No.581921

>>581915

No, I mean really think about it. Some of the things JPII has said were heretical. The whole peace ceremony he had where all religions of the world gathered was filled with heresy and blasphemy.


56520a No.581931

>>581921

If you think peace, love, and brotherhood among all mankind is heresy, then you've chosen the wrong religion.


a2396e No.581933

>>581931

Trading eternal comfort on Paradise for temporary comfort between religions on earth is a mistake, a big one, and you know this.

Also

>Love is just being nice to people

You surely know that you're wrong.


a1ea60 No.581936

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>581931

Now I understand that we established the fact that the Dimond brothers are hypocrites from one of the posts above, but you cannot deny the ideas stated in the video.


56520a No.581940

>>581933

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

>>581936

>you cannot deny the ideas stated in the video

I can and I do.


a1ea60 No.581945

>>581940

did you even watch it?


3cb4de No.581946

>>581940

If you do not look at the Assisi "Word Day of Prayer for Peace" with disgust something is seriously wrong. Praying with the false religions like that is simply inexcusable.


a2396e No.581948

File: f9e26af4de3399a⋯.png (148.19 KB, 548x344, 137:86, 1429716602898.png)

>>581940

>Jesus Christ is a arch heretic

>He tried to convert people to Christianity instead of accepting Jews hated him

>He told the unbelievers would go to hell which is against my nice doctrine beliefs

>He also basically offended everyone that disagreed with him which is basically Nazi behavior

>Yeah not a model Christian when you think about it


cea0f4 No.581954

>>581936

I don't see what's wrong with this. If you let the buddhists install their idol on the tabernacle and pray to it in your cathedral maybe you can hand them some pamplets on their way out.


3cb4de No.581959

>>581954

>I don't see what's wrong with this. If you let the buddhists install their idol on the tabernacle and pray to it in your cathedral maybe you can hand them some pamplets on their way out.

This is like saying that there is nothing wrong with letting the League of the Militant Godless come into Russian churches and fornicating on the altars. It is pure sacrilege.


e1014a No.581968

>>581620

Out of curiosity, because I don't know Orthodox/Eastern theology, is Jay Dyer as theologically knowledgeable as he seems to be or am I just easily impressed?


e3aae0 No.582039

File: 0954da83c10bf95⋯.jpg (7.83 KB, 225x225, 1:1, images (1).jpg)


033f96 No.583528

>>577078

>Church tradition doesn't mean acting like a tradcath and going to latin mass

>Church tradition doesn't mean acting like a traditional Catholic and going to a traditional church service


c5ee42 No.583548

Council of Trent session 7 cannon 13 nuff said you plebs


7316ac No.583566

File: edd3b71c88e49fc⋯.jpg (89.92 KB, 620x670, 62:67, 1453731672370.jpg)

>>577097

>political leanings

Thanks, I now realize any criticism is just arguign about wordly politics, because it is.


31de0c No.583570

>>577068

The gates of hell shall not prevail against it

I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven

What you bind and loose on earth shall be bound and loosed in heaven

Seems pretty clear to me that Jesus is saying he will protect the seat of Peter from teaching error, thus ex cathedra peter statements are infallible.


d44c3c No.583575

File: edef7218c7eb9f2⋯.jpeg (146.31 KB, 691x625, 691:625, 22e675dffe37475bd8772c24d….jpeg)

>>581900

>sspx

i want a separate flag for sedevacantists aka protestants in denial


b435eb No.583603

>>583575

>sspx

>sedevacantist

Wew nice try there. Rome says SSPX sacraments are valid. :^)


4177f0 No.583619

>>583528

This is absolutely correct. Tradition is a set of supernaturally revealed truths (the peiod of God revealing these truths ended in the Apostolic Age) taking its name from being passed down throughout generations. Here you can see the full definition:

https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=36902

Things like the traditional Mass are just human traditions, valuable because they are tried and useful, but in the end just human traditions.


d44c3c No.583623

>>583603

I wish SSPX would come back into the fold, but sometimes they sperg out and acts like Sedes.


7316ac No.583624

File: e9b14a4d2122cb3⋯.mp4 (1.17 MB, 480x480, 1:1, Ayayayyayayaya.mp4)

>>583619

>Things like the traditional Mass are just human traditions


4177f0 No.583628

>>583624

Aren't they?


4177f0 No.583630

>>583548

What are you trying to say?


53404f No.583633

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>583575

>>583603

>>583623

>implying sspx are sede


b435eb No.583636

>>583623

I go to a SSPX church and know what you mean. There are some legitimate concerns but some people take it too far. I know a guy who won't even go to a Mass if the priest was ordained by Bishop Williamson. Opinions range widely among the members but I've never heard somebody deny the Pope.


4bf5f2 No.583663

>>583636

Is he talking about priests ordained before or after his removal from the society?


49383a No.583672

>>577059

Become a Baptist.


b435eb No.583675

>>583663

He claims that any priest ordained by Williamson is dubious because he claims Williamson withholds intent.


f857fa No.583739

>>583672

>Become an Independent Fundamental 1611 KJV only Andersonite

fixed


7e238c No.583742

File: f5b9cf5e57fc1ea⋯.jpg (21.5 KB, 243x255, 81:85, 1433700289350.jpg)

>>583739

I was raised Baptist and don't know what any of that means


716f8d No.583749

>>583575

>sspx

>sede

every sspx priest that was a sede was removed form the society which triggered the fuck out of the sedes.


4bf5f2 No.583763

>>583675

So he is saying Williamson's ordinations are invalid?


fc4d99 No.583779

File: 0f0cf2b82376abf⋯.jpg (102.97 KB, 640x960, 2:3, image.jpg)

>>577062

Thank you so much for that. I started watching the Dimond videos obsessively because his knowledge of Greek www excellent and his videos on non-Sede conspiracy crap were honestly good, such as his video on Mary's sinlessness. However, I started stupidly watching his conspiracies on the Antichrist and end times. For a while I believed it, his use of scripture is clever and selective. However, if Pope John Paul II was the antichrist, why hasn't the world ended? His use of scripture is very selective though. He claims because they raised a photo of Pope, that somehow that confirms that we're all worshipping the beast. He also tried to turn himself into a prophet by saying that he went on a radio show and the day after, there was s power outage in Europe that fulfilled his prophesying. Complete nonsense. The only good videos he has are non-Sede stuff, and even then he's dangerous. Thank you for posting this


384785 No.583837

If you've got high functioning autism that causes you to flip out over one prayer being translated differently or a slightly different way of doing something then just go to a tradsperg parish. There's plenty of autismos that will moan with you about the most minor shit


cdce56 No.583916

>>583763

Yes. No idea where he gets his information from.


67884e No.583975

>>583916

I'm guessing it's because Williamson doesn't believe in Holocaustianity and therefore he's an apostate.


f1d351 No.585786

>>577144

>Implying Serbia wasn't communist


f1d351 No.585787

>>577194

>My confirmation saint is Maximillian Kolbe

Well shit. He's my confirmation saint too, except I'm a Croat from Australia


aae585 No.585802

>Disappointed because of people questioning divine tradition and authority

>Considering rejecting divine tradition and authority because of this


750c29 No.585808

>>585802

>60's

>Divine Tradition

brainlet leave


89f722 No.586239

>>583975

No it's not that, my friend doesn't believe in the holocaust either. He's just spergy about some things.


b9f8dd No.586664

File: f880f01a183658a⋯.png (233.59 KB, 640x640, 1:1, catholics2.png)

>>577100

(USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST)

56ec47 No.586677

>>586664

>new testament is only compiled about a century or more after the church of Christ is established

>ya Christ left no church, He just let scripture as a DIY church kit

protestants PLEASE


6a1ca5 No.586777

>>586664

Catholic mod mafia strikes again


5fc76b No.586863

File: c525aea2d857a4a⋯.png (237.8 KB, 390x407, 390:407, ModsStrike.png)


0b29ec No.586924

File: bcb990721d8fce0⋯.jpg (24.63 KB, 500x357, 500:357, DL6R9ooUIAELB_h.jpg)

>>586863

if you want to see idolatry just watch Bishop Steven Anderson preach his nonsense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xKvdU0qgrs


b10006 No.587347

>>577100

That map cannot be fucking right. I can't name one person who's had an abortion and my family's social circle encompasses half the fucking country(Macedonia, for reference).

If that map isn't bullshit I'll change my name to (((Isaac)))


d68a82 No.587447

File: 86caf07f01ee53f⋯.jpg (295.14 KB, 2400x1536, 25:16, 1462295247022.jpg)

>>577068

Vatican 2 did nothing, really. It is just a boogeyman for people who don't want to fathom the fact they let masons and jews rule the world. What the fuck did they think would happen? They corrupted everyting, even the air, and that is how the smoke of satan entered in the Church. Not because "muh vatican 2", but because people gained so many ways to easily sin, let themselves be seduced by libertine ideologies, and got drunk on the deceiving "welfare" of consumerism. Then these people accepted abuses of all kinds. When a lot of Catholics believe that the teachings on matters of sex in the Church are wrong, and that transubstantiation is a spook, how the hell do you think you are going to stop liturgial abuses and heresy from happening? You won't. Way too easy to blame Vatican 2 instead of our own (and especially boomers) for this mess.




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