/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>575470

Despite growing up Protestant, I have been restless intellectually and spiritually. I was drawn to study philosophy from a young age, and spent aprox. 2-3 years in high school obsessively analyzing and deconstructing the worldview I had inherited from my parents. I pondered over higher and lower Biblical criticism, Biblical archaeology, evolutionary theory, postmodernism and ethics. In the end, I privately declared myself an agnostic atheist, citing the myriad interpretations and traditions which populate not only the Christian world, but the world as a whole as evidence of the fact that religion and spirituality are largely human constructs. As a skeptic, it's not that I didn't believe in some kind of higher power, it's just that I didn't think there was anything meaningful that could be said about Him/Her/It/Them, and thus it was futile to engage in metaphysical or spiritual conversation. It seemed to me that most aspects of religion could be convincingly explained through naturalistic causes, and while I could not disprove the existence of the divine, I could certainly point to physical evidence of the abuses and corruptions of organized religions, and in my analysis, whatever psychological and social benefits may be derived from communal religious practices was outweighed by the close-mindedness, corruption and abuse. Mentally bidding Christ farewell, I wandered through the modern philosophical tradition, starting with Descarte's *dubito* and grazing over the major figures and trends- modernism, postmodernism, romanticism, existentialism, idealism, Marxism, feminism, Kant, Hegel, Locke, Nietzsche, Wittgenstein etc. I read about the various crises which had rocked the Christian world, from the numerous failed predictions of the end of the world, to Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity as slave morality, to the post-structuralists, feminists, socialists and others who critiqued the Western world as being dominated by the oppressive patriarchal cis-het whites. In time, my intellectual wandering would bring me into contact with the axiomatic thinking of the mathematicians, Godel's Incompleteness Theorem, and the Munchhaussen Trilemma, all of which deeply impressed upon me the idea that all knowledge and structures and systems and beliefs boiled down to axioms, circular reasoning, or an infinite regress of explanations, and that all of these methods of explanation were inadequate for creating a complete and consistent map of the world. With that in mind, the most prudent thing to do seemed to be to adopt a broadly tolerant but melancholy outlook, convinced that we were all just trying to get by, and making up stories and systems to help us cope.

>>575471

It was about this same time that I made contact with some Jews, as I was interested in learning about their traditions, and how they had managed to remain separate and distinct for so many hundreds and thousands of years. I met with a rabbi, who seemed doubtful at first, but acquiesced to loaning me some books. I began to read the writings of various Jewish sages like Rashi, their commentaries on the Torah, their expositions upon the hidden structure of the universe and our place in it, and the hidden meanings that could be found and propounded upon in the Hebrew scriptures. I found their intellectual rigor invigorating, fascinating and refreshing, and felt myself warmly drawn to them. I felt my disdain for Christians growing, as I imagined these same passages being read over by the Protestants in my home church, thinking themselves wise while remaining ignorant of the subtleties and hidden knowledge of the Jews. Around the same time, I dabbled in occult literature, curious to read the books of the Hermetics, Luciferians, Kabbalists and gnostics, and hear their side of the story, their take on the Bible, God, the universe, metaphysics and the soul. At this time, I had started to get involved in a BDSM community, fascinated by their exhibitions, their skill at manipulating the human psyche, and their expert carnal knowledge. I browsed through r/TheRedPill and the manosphere, picking up bits and pieces of evolutionary psychology, social dynamics and hatefacts.

I don’t really remember how or why I stopped doing all those things. 4chan probably had something to do with it, as well as moving back home to save $$. It was about this time that I started browsing /pol/, and absorbing all the perspectives and shitposting on that board. Despite my engagement with the Jewish sages, I had never come across the ‘JQ’ or any of the other redpills that /pol/ offers. Natural law, anti-feminism, alternative perspectives on WW2, the deep state, libertarianism, monarchism, race realism, anarchism, IQ, Islam, free speech, and more. I read about the Talmud, and was shocked to find the slander and hatred within its pages. I started to listen to Jordan Peterson, and was initially delighted by his lectures, but quickly became frustrated as he did not incorporate any metaphysics within his lectures. I started to read Edward Feser, and was impressed with the arguments that he put forward for the existence of God and His attributes, wondering for the first time in years whether I had made a mistake by leaving organized religion.

Hello friend. I can't offer much I'm afraid, but here are my two cents: Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Read the Gospels. Jesus is the prophecied Jewish Messiah, so you can put to rest all the Jewish stuff. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the second temple in the olivet discourse and I find Revelation makes the most sense in light of God's judgement in AD 70.

Now I refer you to GK Chesterton. I think you'd enjoy reading Orthodoxy - there he explains his roundabout path to embracing the Church at Rome.

>>575482

> you think too much

I'm not sure how to feel about this.

> There is a character who over think too much unto confusion and a character who frets over existence itself and complains

Ha. I might read this after all.

You may also be able to help with one other thing- when I was thinking about suicide, my rationale went something like this

> Even if you're right about all the terrible things going on in the world and that have happened in your own life, you have two choices:

> Either continue to be frozen by fear of disappointment and the fear of failure

> or

> Have the courage to hope; and risk pain, disappointment and discouragement in order to be able to experience joy, motivation and optimism

How do I find the courage to hope? I have been disappointed many times in the past, and have avoided relationships and jobs because I do not want to be hurt again. To quote CS Lewis

> “To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable.”

> The Four Loves

This describes me perfectly, but I don't know how to stop being this way. Or even if I want to stop being this way. My pessimism and cynicism have kept me from being vulnerable and getting hurt, but it prevents me from really living life.

>>575487

>but it prevents me from really living life.

The only thing preventing you from really living life is you yourself and nothing else.

>How do I find the courage to hope? I have been disappointed many times in the past, and have avoided relationships and jobs because I do not want to be hurt again.

Get your heads out of the books and esoteric knowledge, for a day pretend you are a simple minded man who knows nothing and just be.

I have a Taoist story to tell you.

>There was a Taoist mentor and a man hounded by worldly troubles and desire.

>He asked the mentor to help him, the mentor said he has to get rid of the desire.

>The man came back, he said now he has the desire to get rid of desire

>Mentor said now you have to get rid of the desire to get rid of desire in order to get rid of the desire

>The man said it does not make sense.

>Mentor said that is the point. There will always be desire. It is just the way it is.

There is a Japanese saying which I like and recite it often in my heart. "There most important thing is to be able to let go of absolutely everything in order to save the only one thing that remains which matters most."

To me, it is my salvation and God. Like in the bible said. Deny yourself and pick up the cross to follow Jesus all the way. No the cross does not mean burden. It means to follow Christ all the way until death like He did.

So let go of those esoteries, and deny yourself.

Congratulations anon, you are not intelectuall and spiritually restless. You are the 384753845783th fedora with the same lack of any knowledge about religion, Christianity or theology, the same emotional appeals and the same fedoraism.

The moment you say things like

>citing the myriad interpretations and traditions which populate not only the Christian world, but the world as a whole as evidence of the fact that religion and spirituality are largely human constructs

>As a skeptic, it's not that I didn't believe in some kind of higher power, it's just that I didn't think there was anything meaningful that could be said about Him/Her/It/Them

>most aspects of religion could be convincingly explained through naturalistic causes

> I could certainly point to physical evidence of the abuses and corruptions of organized religions

You are yet another materialist retard who thinks religion is just this practical tool. You have wanted to kill yourself beause you have no meaning or purpose. You have abandoned God and have been left with nothing, parroting leftist buzzwords that degeenrates try to say as if they were deep: "SKEPTIC", "ORGANIZED RELIGION".

>all knowledge and structures and systems and beliefs boiled down to axioms, circular reasoning, or an infinite regress of explanations, and that all of these methods of explanation were inadequate for creating a complete and consistent map of the world. With that in mind, the most prudent thing to do seemed to be to adopt a broadly tolerant but melancholy outlook, convinced that we were all just trying to get by, and making up stories and systems to help us cope.

And this is one of the biggest retardations I have read all day. All knowledge is boiled down to evident thing. Your very assertion about the "broadly tolerant but melacholic outlook" (seriously…) is also based on things that aren't proved.

In general, you live an empty, meaningless life and you want others to be the same. You project your need to cope with your meaningless life, pretending others just delude themselves, when others just have a consistent view and mentality that is not tainted by materialism and hedonism like your inconsistent monstrosity is.

Go read something that is truly intellectual, unlike your projections and delusions: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1001.htm

>>575475

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

>>575470

>logorrhea

Synthesize your thoughts in one paragraph or less

>>575491

I'm here, am I not? I was merely recounting the journey I've been on. Lurking here and /pol/ and Edward Feser's website has certainly given me a lot to think about. I'm not really sure what counts as intellectually or spiritually restless (4U) so you'll have to forgive me for trying to cram years worth of reading and thinking into one hurriedly dashed off blog post. I can elaborate on anything that you'd like.

>>575493

> anon grows up Protestant

> anon has doubts about his religion

> anon leaves his religion

> anon samples from just about every tradition and school of thought he can find

> anon is still restless and starts lurking here

> anon is now unsure what to do or how to go back to being a Christian

>>575495

Yes, and we all value that you are here, and that hopefully you will find a true bright wordlview with a true meaning.

Truly becoming free is accepting the truth and quitting vices and evil. The OT doesn't has to be "profound parables/stories". There are many things, civilizations and cities that are mentioned in the OT and later discovered. The OT is a great source of knowledge about the old world.

The judaism of today is talmudism, a betrayal of God and complete hatred towards Christ. Christianity is universal because it is the only truth. False beliefs serve no purpose, they are a perversion.

You still see religion as some kind of collectible item, as a dress, a silly custom that should be preserved for the sake of collectionism. No. Religion is the truth revealed by God, so any belief that contradicts this truth is evil.

Christianity is not a tool, it is not a collectible item.

You have reduced it to philosophy. It is not philosofy, because it is revealed by God, it is not some kind of inference.

You have reduced it to a lifestyle. It is not, and Christ and the apostles and the martyrs were not killed for "a lifestyle". Works Without faith are worthless.

You have reduced it culture. Christianity shapes culture, not the other way round. The truth of God cares little about wordly customs.

You say "it strikes me as in opposition to the world!" well, let's see what God has to say about that:

>If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

As long as you don't see this your mind will be plagued by suicidal thoughts because, after all, why not?

>>575475

Eric is that you?

>>575499

Best post all around.

>>575470

>anon grows up protestant

Found your problem. This is a huge mindfuck. I too grew up protestant which retarded my spiritual development and sent me through the edgy atheist phase too. Growing up being taught to hate the catholic church only to discover the catholic church wrote edited preserved and canonised the bible which we worship as God is a real belief killer. I recommend inspiringphilosophy channel as it collates brilliant logical, philosophical and historical proofs and evidence for God and Christianity: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TW70EEo4e2onJ4lq1QYSzrY&v=rml5Cif01g4.

Then begome.

PS. You are an intellectual babby as other anons have said and you need to humiliate yourself intellectually if you don't want to remain a nihilistic hedonist

>>575495

>anon is now unsure what to do or how to go back to being a Christian

Be catechized and contextually start reading the link in >>575491 or alternatively the Summa contra gentiles

>>575495

As someone clued into Feser and Aristotle do virtue ethics/teleology in ethics avoid the problems of utilitarianism by using relying on divine revelation to provide the teleological ends/purpose?

>>575470

Be wary of anons using your unhappiness as proof all your views and knowledge being false, its part of a nice trick used by some religious groups - particularly protestants whereby they can trigger transmarginal inhibition which radically (but only temporarily) changes how you react to information. Not bashing sudden conversions but read up on this practice you will be better able to tell the difference between the divine and just physiological manipulation

>>575490

This tbh.

OP is a faggot redditor super fedora

Seriously OP your post sounded like a redditor athiest tips fedora word salad

Either learn to love God and accept Jesus or burn in hell for eternity your choice

>>575529

Geg

the moment Op mentioned Jordan le patreon Peterson i already knew he was a retard.

>>575530

>i started listening to jordan peterson

>reddit's theredpill board

trash

>>575470

I see it like this:

While you're alive, at least there's always hope. Besides, I like coffee and sitcoms and playing video games. It's better than being dead.

Furthermore, if you kill yourself you will most likely damn your soul.

You want my advice? I think the sacraments will save you. Confession and holy communion. Your soul is full of all these evil things you've exposed yourself to. only the body of Christ and reconciling with God via confession can help you.

When it comes to philosophy, I too read a lot. But I came to a conclusion that we live in a fallen world so there will never be a utopia and that we have limited minds which can only guess, a lot of the truth is simply hidden from us.

Simply put: I believe Christ, I believe what he said, I don't need anything else. I believe His Church too, I believe my bishop. I don't believe various pseudo intellectuals and metaphysical imagination.

Judaism is a ruse, OP. It's /pol/ for Jews. It's just a thing which reduces racemixing to only those who are of sufficient intellectual quality to learn a language and read several books. It's not really a religion for those who are interested in the truth. Consequently, many Jews are atheists who just avoid breeding with non-Jews.

Regarding Christianity, I won't mince words: The truth is that Biblical criticism leads people to question the authorship of the Gospel of John and certain key extrapolations within the Synoptic Gospel. However, this is no reason to become an Arian Christian or reject the Bible altogether. Christians posit the existence of an all-powerful being who influences in the world in subtle ways. What's in the Bible is there because God wants it there. Guided by the Spirit, whoever wrote John accurately transcribed events which pertain to the life of Jesus. Believing the Bible is an act of faith, and the only way to have such a faith is to pray that God gives it to you.

There was a time in my life when I was a nihilist atheist. What I've cited to you would turn many into atheists if they really understood it, but nonetheless, I'm a Sola Scriptura Christian fundamentalist.

The moment that I came to believe in God wasn't based on any logic or clever argument for the existence of God. It all started when a cute girl taking time out of her day to tell me about how only God could save civilization from the post-rationalist scourge. It was kind of an intellectual appreciation for the devotion of the Christian hivemind at first, but then I went to church and saw all of the people there. They were happy. I hadn't been happy in years. Life is meaningless right? Why do they have such vigor about existing in this craphole world?

I've been party to many thought experiments over time. Want to talk about the Simulation Argument or whatever the current nonsense 'fun' theory the internet is cooking up? I've always known that you can conceive some of type fairly sound logic to justify whatever suits you. So I started thinking about ways you could justify the Bible additions/dubious authorships. See above. Although my views are a bit different than most fundamentalists, they have the same conclusions: The Bible is the word of God. Whoever wrote John (be he a disciple or someone from a century or two later) was clearly a strong Christian, and I would add that his writing skills are second to none in the entire Bible. If any book is inspired by God, it's that one.

We know that additions like 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' are part of ancient traditions about Jesus which we can trace back to at least the second century. Contrast with ancient fairy tales like Rumpelstiltskin which have stayed fairly similar for more than three thousand years. If Rumpelstiltskin can keep itself intact for that long, it's not at all a stretch to say that a story about Jesus helping a woman not get stoned kept its integrity since whatever event spawned the story.

I'm not a strong Christian, really. I'm still recovering from my old ways of decadence and nihilism. I have to work on not swearing/trolling/et cetera. I have to pray more and witness to more atheist-niggers like you. Maybe then he'll stop cursing me.

>>575475

Sorry OP.

>I am sympathetic to but unconvinced by Christianity, given that I consider the Old Testament to not be history but profound parables/stories, and find myself caught between the Jewish and Christian interpretations.

Pick one. Go with the one that's from a real religion and not pretext to avoid racemixing. Keep in mind that the modern form of Judaism was created after the event which led to Christianity, and their interpretations of both the Bible and verifiable history are tainted by this. Ancient beliefs about the devil don't realz because REEEE.

>Jesus also troubles me, as does the practices and beliefs of the Catholic Church and their seeming lack of connection to second temple Judaism.

Christians believe that ceremonial law in the Old Testament was fulfilled with the coming of Christ. The resulting religion is of course very different.

I didn't really answer your question in my wall of text. European pagan religions are dead.

>O am also irked at the foreign aspect of Christianity, irritated that it has usurped and assimilated the indigenous practices and beliefs of Europe instead of leaving them whole and untouched.

You're viewing religion as the Jews do. It's not this thing that you use to protect your culture from outside influences. It's either true or it is a lie. If the ancient Proto-Indo European gods are real, then let us honor them. If they're not, then we probably shouldn't.

Ask yourself why the Proto-Indo European gods were unable to prevent: A) the religions developing in different ways with different gods. B) Their own peoples from abandoning the associated religions for more than a thousand years. This should be a major point of debate amongst modern pagans, but it is not.

Modern pagans have no answers to these questions because they're not interested in truth. The best Pagans are /pol/ and the worst Pagans are just rebelling against the decency of Christian culture. As far as I can tell, none of them really understand the beliefs of Indo-European peoples. Why is the caste system never referenced? Why do so many HUARs think that the patriarchy didn't exist under Godkings? The pagan beliefs of today have little in common with the pagan beliefs of ancient times, and whatever gods (if any) clearly promote very different views than the pagans of antiquity.

>>575700

fml. I borked the first paragraph with the C&P-ing. Should read: Sorry OP. I didn't really answer your question in my wall of text.

Hi all, thanks for replying. I just got off work, so I'll try to take some time to answer your points cogently and concisely. Last night was a bit of a word vomit. Let me try again.

Significant things that trouble me about Christianity/prevent me from becoming a Christian

> Biblical criticism

Long story short, I was raised as a sola scriptura Protestant, and learning about Biblical criticism basically obliterated my faith for a long time. Learning about more intellectual defenses of Christianity (Feser, Aquinas etc) has rekindled my interest in spirituality/metaphysics/religion, but I am far from being a devotee. Since I have not sat down and actually read and wrestled with Feser, Aquinas etc, I cannot comment on them other than to say that I will get around to reading them.

> Judaism

Having studied a (small) amount of Talmudic Judaism, I am aware that Talmudic Judaism is vastly different than second temple Judaism. However, it was pointed out to me that all of the __ Judaisms since Moses have in common fidelity to the written and oral Torah, though Talmudic Judaism bastardised this and sets up the rabbis as the ultimate authority, which Jesus condemned them for. My main problem is that Christianity seems to obliterate the Torah in the process of Jesus arriving on the scene, which seems very out of step from the rest of the Biblical narrative up to that point. It is always "obey my commandments" "keep my commandments" "stop violating my commandments" "the Torah/Law is sweet and wonderful and delicious" etc. When Jesus shows up, suddenly that all disappears? This seems analogous to someone (God) building a house, entrusting it to someone (the Jews), telling them to maintain the house, protect the house, defend the house etc., and then leaving it in their care, only to come back in ~2000 years and demolish the house. The transition from the OT to the NT is jarring to me, and troubles me quite a bit, as it seems that an awful lot of wisdom/knowledge/insight is locked up in the OT and is inaccessible unless you are working from the Jewish framework/presuppositions and can read Hebrew. I am also somewhat jealous of the freedom with which the Jews are able to re-interpret their texts, given that they are an orthopraxy rather than an orthodoxy. But they are also ethnocentric kikes, so w/e.

> Biblical archaeology

This dovetails with my problems with Biblical criticism, as it seems to me that there is limited evidence for the stories/events in the OT as they are written. I am aware of things like the Tel Dan Stele, and the Egyptian chariots at the bottom of the Red Sea, but I am far from comfortable. I am aware of the difference between minimalism and maximalism in Biblical archaeology, and that new discoveries can overturn smug professors, but I find the lack of physical evidence to corroborate the historicity of the OT to be deflationary rather than reassuring.

>>576004

> The Trinity

I first became aware of non-Trinitarian ""Christians"" due to reading about Isaac Newton's religious beliefs, and have been troubled by the Trinity ever since. From my lay perspective, it seems radically different than the monotheistic God that is presented in the OT (and Aristotle's Metaphysics), and I am dimly aware that there was a significant controversy over the Arian vs Trinitarian Christology in the fourth century, and that at one time, most of the Church subscribed to the Arian school of thought. As someone that is (trying to) study math and philosophy at university, the Trinity seems (pardon my language) unsightly, inelegant and a human innovation compared to the divine simplicity of the Absolute Being which is One.

> Paganism/Other religions

This is not so much an intellectual critique as an emotional appeal and a complaint. Reading the history of Christianity in Europe, it bothers me that Christianity was not spread entirely peacefully, but spread at different times by the sword, by the state, and the that paganism was in some cases almost completely wiped out. I am aware that it wasn't just

"hurr durr, ebil Christians killing da beaceful bagans, praise Thor"

and that Christianity has arguably been the most peaceful religion on earth (except for maybe the Jainists) but I wish that more of an effort had been made to intentionally preserve the indigenous European practices and traditions- distinct from Christianity. (I am aware that the only reason we know anything about the bagans is because of the Christians, and that many Christian traditions have been assimilated into Christianity such as Christmas, but I dislike the syncretism, and wish they had stayed separate and "pure"). I am also aware that Vatican II attempted to address this concern going forward, but it still leaves me a bit salty that indigenous European culture (and indigenous British culture in particular) hasn't been preserved in any meaningful sense (though I am open to being proven wrong).

> Young Earth Creationism/Changing Teachings

This is something of a tangent, but it bothers me when Christians claim that there is no contradiction between Christianity and science, when there very clearly is. Even a cursory reading of the early church fathers shows that a substantial portion of them (if not majority or even supermajority) very clearly believed in a young earth, six day creationism and clearly believed that the events in the OT happened the way they are written. (I don’t have the quotes on me this very moment, but if any anons request them I will find them.) While arguably six day creationism isn’t a dogma of the Christian faith, it bothers me that on the one hand, Christians/the Church

a) Claim to teach infallibly about faith and morals

b) Change their teaching about something

And I suppose we could go back and forth about whether or not the age of the earth and the order of creation is necessarily a dogma of the faith, whether or not evolution is compatible with faith, what the Bible really means by XYZ, etc., but it is the… slipperiness of it all that bothers me. I don’t mind the Jews reinterpreting things all the time, because they say outright that their religion is basically about debating various interpretations of the Torah/OT, but when I read about the various crises/scandals of the Church, I am struck by how often it seems that the Church is arguing very… Jewishly to protect their position/dogma. I expect hair splitting and loopholes and casuistry from Jews, but when it comes from the Church, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Idk. I might have to think about this one more and come back when I can state my case more clearly.

>>576005

> Weakness/Don’t care about the world

This may be an emotional appeal rather than an intellectual critique, but it bothers me how Christianity is so hostile to the world. Where Jews and Muslims are taught to go out and become successful, powerful, influential and prosperous, the ideal Christians are poor, ascetic, “meek and mild” monks/nuns/priests. Lots of the time I have pretty poor self-esteem, but I would rather follow/learn from someone who is an evolutionary success (tall, fit, handsome, wealthy, socially successful) rather than an evolutionary failure. And I don't really see this as a moral failing, if anything it indicates to me that my brain is working properly to pattern myself after those who have survived and thrived. There is also the irritation of Christian betadom, and realizing that my dad has been a Christian beta for basically his entire life, and that my school, church and parents have worked to impress upon me the blue pilled narratives about equality, feminism, being a nice guy/good guy, blue pills about the nature of attraction, sexuality, power, influence and wealth. I cannot help but notice that the Christians who are millionaires/billionaires sound almost indistinguishable from non-Christian millionaires/billionaires, indicating that being a Christian has no bearing on whether or not one is physically/materially successful, and that being a Christian may very well impede your ability to compete and excel due to the fact that at the end of the day, Christians believe that this life only matters insofar as it prepares you for the next life. When you compare that mindset to the Jewish or Muslim mindset, is it really any wonder when Jews control basically everything, or that Muslims are outbreeding us? Isn’t the fact that there exists a separate category for those in the “religious life” evidence of the fact that Jesus’ teachings are not suitable for everyday life?

*Phew* thanks for reading through all that. I’ll stick around for a bit to clarify anything before I go to bed.

>>576008

There is no such a thing as "evolutionary success" or "evolutionary filure", that is something you, and some arbitrary people, made up. You should rather follow/lead God instead of some jews or a pedophile warlord. The only thriving that there is is following God. That is surviving, not your disgusting hedonism. It is pretty evident you place pleasure and wordly things first, and God second as some kind of extra.

There is a separate cathegory for those in the religious life because they are specially good. Jesus' teachings also include a family, etc.

It's no surprise that jews control basically everything, because they have no principles and they would rape a million children to get a handful of shekels. It's no surprise that muslims outbreed anyone, since they have their harems of 4 wives they beat regularly, and the punishment for apostasy is death.

>>576031

Hi anon,

Thank you for replying. To bypass a lot of unnecessary words, I realized that a lot of my issues can be boiled down to one thing:

Trust

Or rather, a lack of trust. I don't trust hardly anything, or anyone (if I can help it)

I don't trust God

I don't trust the Bible

I don't trust the Church

I don't trust women

I don't trust men

I don't trust governments

I don't trust companies

I don't trust banks

I don't trust ideologues

I don't trust academics

I barely even trust myself

Etc, etc

While this strategy protects me, it also makes it very difficult to live life. Have you ever experienced this, anon?

> no lying now

>>576031

>You should rather […] lead God

uuuuh

anon

>>576043

Yes. Nihilistic existentialism has no faith in anything but skepticism. It inevitably leads to death. Realise that logical proofs are rare (of which the proof of existence of God is one of them) and that we predominantly rely on faith from evidence. Pray to God for the grace of faith and he will give it to you

>>575799

I'm not going to tell you that I can help you, but I wish to say God can, even though part of me does not wish to say that because I do not fully clothe myself in righteousness either (I seem to be numbing out the burden of existence and the implications of my beliefs upon others in my life with smoking and coffee, and even though I know what I feel I ~~should~ ~ do, that doesn't aid me in the approach to committing to it and maintaining it), beam out of your own eye and all, but believe me, you are not alone my man.

>>576043

You somehow trust yourself enough to believe yourself when you think that you don't, and shouldn't trust anything else.

>>576008

I want to ask you a question: does human suffering have meaning?

Bumping because this thread is relatable and interesting.

Look you gotta clean your room ok? Solzhenitsyn was constantly tidying up in the gulag so he wouldn't let in the element of chaos. And that's so important. You need to read Solzhenitsyn. So you're in your room and it's a mess and that's pretty bad because you've let in chaos and that's how you get the nazis right? And you should be bloody concerned because that's pretty serious right? You know you'd think they'd be motivated by anger but it was disgust. You know hitler saw Jews as a disease. That's pretty bloody important to know. So you need to get rid of the chaos. So the chaos 15 second pause…So 12 second pause ..huh.. So you know the world is in a struggle between order and chaos. And you know that's scary and you should be scared. You know you've got god and the devil. And god is important. He represents order. That's where you get god given commands And… and the devil right? He's chaos. And that's so essential. You know the hero in a lot of myths, he always represents order and that's why you're rooting for him right? Because we need order…and… you know he fights the dragon and that dragon represents chaos. So you need to fight the dragon and clean your room. You know Cain and Abel were brothers and they fought because that's what brothers do. That's humanity. Conflict. And you know you might get that when you're cleaning your room. Even if you're in conflict with yourself right? (slight chuckle) audience all laugh in unison .Your parents bring order to your life you know? They tell you what to do… and you know maybe I didn't appreciate that much when I was younger (another slight chuckle) audience laughs in unison again. one whole minute of uninterrupted silence as Peterson paces around. So you gotta fight the dragon and save your father. And that's so important because you know the 21st century has shown so much evil. You know there was what happened in the gulags in Russia. Oh and by the way don't forget to read The Gulag Archipelago.