/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>569876

I'm in a similar spot. Here are basic doctrinal differences, from my understanding. If anyone finds something wrong, correct me. I'm not trying to spread any misinformation:

>Baptist: The Church comes from The Bible. All doctrine must be based on the clearest and most obvious interpretation of scripture, using the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament

<Orthodox: The Bible comes from The Church. The Bible (Greek Septuagint Old Testament and Greek New Testament) must be interpreted through the lens of Church dogma and tradition

>Baptist: you are saved by grace in a moment in time when you confess your faith. Once you have salvation, you can never lose it

<Orthodox: salvation is a process you go through. Proper faith results in synergy with the will of God, where grace is conveyed through constant unrelenting faith and through the sacraments

>Baptist: the Lord's Supper is a symbol in memory of Christ's sacrifice. It's a memorial and a means of fellowship, but it is still just eating bread and wine

<Orthodox: the Holy Eucharist transubstantiates into the body and blood of Jesus Christ. You must confess your sins to not eat of it unworthily, because it is one of the most important aspects of the liturgy

>Baptist: baptism is a sign that you have accepted the Christian life. You need to be at an age of understanding before you decide to get baptized. Baptizing a baby does as much good for them as a regular bath, cause they don't understand it

<Orthodox: baptism is how we become united with the Church of Jesus Christ. As such, it's a very important thing and must be done for your salvation. Baptize your babies, feed your kids.

>Baptist: all prayer must be made to God. All prayer is worship, if you pray to a saint or Mary, you are idolizing them and worshiping them

<Orthodox: not all prayer is worship. You can pray to Mary and the saints to intercede for you, and it's not idolatry. All worship is for God

>Baptist: icons and statues violate the commandment against graven images. Church buildings should be mostly undecorated

<Orthodox: iconoclasm is a heresy. The commandment is against false gods and idols, not on images of Jesus and the saints

<Baptist: autonomy of all churches. While specific groups or conventions may arise for different groups, for the most part churches are independent and not subject to a higher power besides God

<Orthodox: churches are united, priests under bishops and bishops under archbishops and archbishops under the patriarch. If you have a church made by a separate group not validly ordained, you're not in communion with us and need to fix that

>>569891

Now for more cultural differences

>Baptists tends to be more "Jesus-focused." Prayers are often offered to Jesus, in the name of Jesus, hymns are sung about Jesus. Baptists believe in the trinity and in the Father and the Holy Spirit, but the main focus is on Jesus

<Orthodoxy is very "trinity-focused." The trinity is invoked frequently. They sing in their services, "we have found the true faith, worshiping the undivided trinity who has saved us." They sing a hymn known as the "thrice holy hymn," and prayers are made in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

>Baptists, like all western Christian traditions, emphasize the cross. The passion of Christ, his death, is the main focus of the faith

<Orthodoxy emphasizes the resurrection. The main focus of the faith is the resurrection of Christ

>Baptists aren't very particular about how a church is designed. Baptists meet in buildings, house churches, strip malls, even outdoors. All they need is pews and a pulpit

<Orthodoxy is very particular about the design of churches. Check out any Orthodox church, they have a big icon of Mary with the baby Jesus on the wall behind the altar. In front of the altar, they have a screen of icons with Mary on the left, Jesus on the right, the archangels next to them, and patron saints next to them. The twelve great feasts of the church year line the walls. There is a big icon of the dormition at the back with the little sandbox of candles. On the ceiling of the church, you have a big dome with a picture of Jesus inside looking down. Their churches are often built with these designs in mind, and if they have to convert a space into a church they try their best to match this design

>Baptist clergy dress the same as the laity. Baptists don't believe the pastor is special, and generally a Baptist pastor will wear a suit and tie

<Orthodox clergy dress in really ornate vestments. The color of the vestments indicate the season and the design indicate the rank (priests get these long runner cloths that go down their front and a big cape that covers their shoulders. Deacons get one long cloth that they wrap like a sash once around and leave the lengthy sides hanging, one in front and one in the back. Everyone gets to wear the upside-down top-hats)

>Baptists don't use incense. Nothing against it, it's just not common

<Orthodox use more incense then anyone I've ever seen. Their churches have visible white smoke in the air when the service is done

That's all I can think of right now, good luck my man

>>569876

Just remember, justification is the article upon which the church stands or falls. Nothing else matters

>>569888

I'm a cradle Christian and I was born into Charismatic Protestantism (the church I went to as a child was essentially a Church of God without the title)

>>569891

>Baptist: icons and statues violate the commandment against graven images. Church buildings should be mostly undecorated

I might be wrong, but I'm not sure if this is true for all baptists. A lot of the baptist churches I've seen here in the south have stain glass window images similar to icons of biblical events/Figures.

>>569901

Those are not the same as icons or statues though. They are just pictures. They adorn the churches. It's very different from the role of icons in Orthodox worship.

>>569901

The most is generally stained glass windows or a cross. It's not comparable to Orthodox iconography

>>569876

>Ask me whatever you want about my personal spiritual journey and current beliefs.

Do you believe God was willing and able to give us his complete word and to ensure it isn't corrupted? Have you considered Paul's warning in Acts 20?

Acts 20:29-32

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

1 Peter 1:23-25

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

>>569891

>Baptist: The Church comes from The Bible. All doctrine must be based on the clearest and most obvious interpretation of scripture, using the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament

The church is founded on the fundaments of the Bible, which we believe is the eternally preserved word of God as given by the prophets and apostles that He has chosen for that mission. Ephesians 2:20.

Also I wouldn't say it exactly as "the clearest and most obvious interpretation" but rather that from Scripture we see that God has sent his Holy Spirit to those that believe and is able to give each of them the true understanding of the word, John 14:26, and guide them to all truth. John 16:13. The reason I say this is because 1 Corinthians 1-2 basically tells us that "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

>>Baptist: the Lord's Supper is a symbol in memory of Christ's sacrifice.

I would say it is an ordinance of God and a commandment to us, so take it seriously.

>Baptist: baptism is a sign that you have accepted the Christian life.

Yes it is the answer of a good conscience toward God (1 Peter 3:21) and also an ordinance and command to be followed as soon as you are ready.

>Baptist: all prayer must be made to God. All prayer is worship, if you pray to a saint or Mary, you are idolizing them and worshiping them

Psalm 65:2

>Baptist: autonomy of all churches. While specific groups or conventions may arise for different groups, for the most part churches are independent and not subject to a higher power besides God

This last one is limited to independent Baptists. There are some formerly independent Baptist churches who have decided at various times and places to start councils and denominations like southern Baptists for instance (they use a gender-neutral Bible now) and before them various confessional Baptist denominations like John Smyth etc. We however feel today that such activity leads to moving away from the word of God as the final authority; schisming and politics over principle; as seen from all the other existing denomination & state churches.

>>569891

>Orthodox: iconoclasm is a heresy. The commandment is against false gods and idols, not on images of Jesus and the saints

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that… Whether images were fine or not wasn't the point of the iconoclasts, but rather, whether images can be used in veneration and prayer or must be for purely artistic and secular purposes. Also, whether it is okay to portray Jesus or not, since He is God.

>Orthodox: churches are united, priests under bishops and bishops under archbishops and archbishops under the patriarch. If you have a church made by a separate group not validly ordained, you're not in communion with us and need to fix that

All bishops are equal - different titles are only in reference to different ranks of honor, but not of power. The only real clerical hierarchy is deacon<priest<bishop.

>>569892

>Orthodoxy emphasizes the resurrection. The main focus of the faith is the resurrection of Christ

Eeh, I'm not sure we can say that… The cross does get a lot of focus. It might be more accurate to say that we just really, really like Christus Victor.

The rest is correct though, good job Christanon.

>>569876

Considering the huge differences between both, what exactly are you indecisive about?

Have you at least attended both?

>>569876

>I've been reading into Orthodoxy recently and I'm torn between it and Fundamental Baptism.

The orthoprot meme is true after all

OP here

>>569961

I've considered both because only one or the other is true. Everything else is obviously false.

As I said in an earlier post, I was raised in what was essentially a Church of God (Baptists that speak tongues).

What I didn't say is that they also followed many traditional practices, and the culture was closer to Orthodoxy than most other non-apostolic churches in America (thus making me more comfy with Orthodoxy than others where I live)

I haven't attended an Orthodox service, but I have seen videos of them and I plan on going to one soon.

>>569991

>Baptists are Protties

Anon, I…

>>569998

Baptists definitely are protties through and through, any Orthodox would tell you the same.

>>570009

Agreed. I would love though if we could develop a consistent set of terms though so there would be one word for traditional Protestant churches which appeared in the reformation, think Presbys, Lutherans, Anglicans, and maybe squeeze in Methodists even though they don't technically qualify, and those Churches which developed later, like Charismatics, Pentecostals, Baptists and whoever. And no Baptists are not Anabaptists, that's a meme

>>570021

>Presbys, Lutherans, Anglicans, and maybe squeeze in Methodists

mainline

>Charismatics, Pentecostals, Baptists and [most "non-denominational"]

evangelical

>>570021

Well they are anabaptists, they just don’t have any connection to the sect called Anabaptists. It doesn’t get more ridiculous than claiming ridiculous heretics like Donatists as proto-Baptists though. The Baptism succession meme is as much of an embarrassment as aerial tollhouses.

>>569998

Why would both be more obviously true than, say, Anglicanism? And by Anglicanism, I mean the traditional form of it with a sort of "Anglo-Catholic" interpretation of the thirty-nine articles, etc. Anglicanism is certainly closer to Orthodoxy than Baptist churches. It has a liturgy, it believes in real presence (defined in a slightly different way), it has a form of confession (general usually, but auricular upon request).

And it would seem to me that if you were willing to accept the legitimacy of Baptist belief, you upon the door to most other basic protestant denoms (excluding Pentecostals and JWs and such).

Seems like a weird two choices, to be honest.

And there are so many great differences between Baptists and Orthodox that I am not sure how you can't have an opinion on at least two or three of these differences. Seeing as you've already managed to discount every other denomination in existence.

>I've been reading into Orthodoxy recently

how do you do this exactly?

i have a difficult time discerning what orthodox are supposed to believe.

for example, if i talk to two baptists about a subject, and they're telling me two different things, i can go to their ultimate source of authority for doctrine (scripture) to figure out who's right.

if i talk to two catholics about a subject, and they're telling me two different things, i can go to one of their ultimate source of authority for doctrine (teachings of their church, which are laid out in the catechism for my convenience, books certified with nihil obstat and imprimatur) to figure out who's right.

if i talk to two orthodox, and they're telling me two different things, what do i do?

>>570040

http://www.pravoslavieto.com/docs/eng/Orthodox_Catechism_of_Philaret.htm

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Orthodox_Catechisms_in_English

we are not legalists like the jews or pseudo jews (you know who). Christ did not come to make laws, but a church. the HEART of the law is what matters for an understanding. God bless

>>570021

>one word for traditional Protestant churches which appeared in the reformation

I have an idea: "Protestant"

>those Churches which developed later

Another idea: "Anabaptist"

>And no Baptists are not Anabaptists

Reformed Baptists are a fusion of Protestant theology and Anabaptist theology, and most Arminian Baptists are practically Anabaptists in that they are "Radical" and not "Magisterial".

>>570158

if you were pressed for an answer, which one of these would you say is the most authoritative/accurate?

Thise are completely different denoms. But Baptists are tight for salvation and orthodox are not.

Verses proving salvation to anyone that believes and not of works.

John

1:12

3:15-16/18/36

4:14(John 6:35)

5:24

6:28-29/35/38-40/44-45/47

7:38-39

8:24

10:27-29

11:25-27/40

12:46

14:1-3

16:27

20:31

Matthew

5:19

7:21-23(John 6:38-40)

8:10-13

12:37

21:31-32

Mark

1:15

2:5

10:24-25

16:16

Luke

3:3(Acts 19:4)

5:20

7:50

8:12

18:10-14/40-42

23:40-43

Acts

2:21

10:43

11:16-17

13:38-39/48

15:7-9

16:30-31

19:4(Luke 3:3)

26:18

Romans

1:16-17

3:20/22/24-28/30

4:2-9/11/14-16/24

5:1/15-18

6:23

8:24

9:30-33

10:3-4/9-10/13

11:6

1 Corinthians

1:14/17

3:14-15

15:1-2

2 Corinthians

4:13-14

1 Thessalonians

4:14

2 Thessalonians

2:12

Ephesians

1:13-14

2:8-9

4:7

Galatians

2:16/21

3:6-11/14/21-22/24/26

5:3-6

Philippians

3:3/9

Titus

3:5

1 Timothy

1:16

2 Timothy

1:9

3:15

Hebrews

4:3

10:38-39

11:7

1 Peter

1:3-5/8-9

3:21(Colossians 2:12)

1 John

4:2-3/15

5:1/4-5/10-11/13

Revelation

2:11/26

3:5/20-21

21:7/27

>>570192

Matthew 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

>in b4 Father's will is do works

John 6

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

>in b4 James 2

https://youtu.be/dPqSelVJvoA

>>570036

>And it would seem to me that if you were willing to accept the legitimacy of Baptist belief, you upon the door to most other basic protestant denoms

They're not protestants though

>>570169

the first link

Begome :D. You'll greatly increase your chances of salvation if you do

>>570415

Bearing false witness. Anyone who listens to Anderson knows he doesn't believe Biblical morality is unimportant. Why does he make such a big deal about Kent Hovind's remarriage? Why does he spend hours preaching against the evils of drugs, drunkenness, fornication, pornography, etc.? Just because he doesn't believe it can send a saved person to hell doesn't mean he thinks it's unimportant. You act like the only reason not to do evil is to avoid hell.

Criticize him all you want, I do too, but don't bear false witness.

>>570690

to be fair, the mods might not have even seen the other one, especially if it wasn't reported.

i think one of the main reasons catholics on this board seem like they get away with more is that their shitposts aren't being reported as often or at all, due to people (unfairly) thinking the cathmods wouldn't do anything about it, non-catholics having thicker skin, or just because they're the majority on this board, which would mean more of them getting triggered and reporting.

>>570690

>Posting a quote from a Mormon book

>>570158

This is a brilliant catechism and among the best I've read. God, and his Orthodox Church, be praised.

>>570898

>to facilitate heresy

You couldn’t have made a more apposite mistake if you tried.

>>570894

God bless you lad

>>570898

what about apostolic succession? Acts 8:17

>>570894

>Anglicans constantly sucking up to Catholics and Orthodoxes

They're not gonna enter into communion with you, bro.

>>570898

>Jesus Christ has turned His back on the 2000-year old church He established with St. Peter

what a cruel meme

>>571038

and a lie too

>>570898

>Christ turning His back on the Church He founded

Literal blasphemy.

>>571038

>>571040

>Jesus Christ

<founding the Romish church

nice meme