/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

ask your spiritual father, he'll probably say the same

>Our first quote comes from Tertullian (160-225), who although a towering Church Father in the early Church, never made sainthood after falling for the Montanist heresy later in life. But his early teachings are still considered quite orthodox, and his directive on the homosexual act, "But all the other frenzies of passions – impious both toward the bodies and toward the sexes – beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities," not only picks up where St. Paul (and Christ) left off, but as stating the act is something beyond ordinary sin, seems to take the gravity of gay sex to another level.

>In the fourth century, St. John Chrysostom (347-407), a Doctor of the Church and perhaps the greatest of the Greek Fathers, continued on the theme, while using the analogy of gay sex being the equivalent of hell on earth: "But if thou scoffest at hearing of hell and believest not that fire, remember Sodom. For we have seen…even in this present life, a semblance of hell…an unquenchable fire…[f]or such is the burning of Sodom…Consider how great is that sin, to have forced hell to appear even before its time!…For that rain was unwonted, for the intercourse was contrary to nature, and it deluged the land, since lust had done so with their souls."

>Pope St. Gregory the Great (540-604), a very holy and versatile Doctor/Father of the Church, who was responsible for wide ranging accomplishments from clergy reform to the introduction of Gregorian chants into worship, continues on the hellish theme, explaining how the metaphoric stench of gay sex becomes literal: "Sacred Scripture itself confirms that sulfur evokes the stench of the flesh, as it speaks of the rain of fire and sulfur poured upon Sodom by the Lord. He had decided to punish Sodom for the crimes of the flesh, and the very type of punishment he chose emphasized the shame of that crime. For sulfur stinks, and fire burns. So it was just that Sodomites, burning with perverse desires arising from the flesh like stench, should perish by fire and sulfur so that through this just punishment they would realize the evil they had committed, led by a perverse desire."

>St. Peter Damian (1007-1072), a renown Church Father from the middle ages who had to deal with homosexuality within the clergy, elaborates on the damning nature of gay sex even further, explaining that this sin against the body causes one to lose their mind as well: "Truly, this vice is never to be compared with any other vice because it surpasses the enormity of all vices…It defiles everything, stains everything, pollutes everything. And as for itself, it permits nothing pure, nothing clean, nothing other than filth…The miserable flesh burns with the heat of lust; the cold mind trembles with the rancor of suspicion; and in the heart of the miserable man chaos boils like Tartarus [Hell]…In fact, after this most poisonous serpent once sinks its fangs into the unhappy soul, sense is snatched away, memory is borne off, the sharpness of the mind is obscured."

>>569256

and for people with an ACTUAL SEXUAL DISORDER birth defect (not sodomites), see the following:

>All-good and greatly compassionate Lord, above [all conceptions of] being and divinity, Who alone exists eternally and without change: “He who is” unto the ages; Whose glory is incomprehensible and Whose mercy is immeasurable; Who created the entire human race to dwell over the entire face of the earth; and Who honored the human being with Your image, newly shaped in form and beauty from a rational soul and dignified body; Who made male and female and gave to each its own appearance and substance; Who knows the weakness of our nature and knows the name and age of each; Who gives each a name to be distinct, distinguished in their own appropriate gender, personality and worth.

>Master, Yourself acquiring our infirm and impoverished blend [of soul and body] in Your saving dispensation, accept at this time Your servant (new name, if applicable) as You accepted Peter the first Chief [of the Apostles], formerly Cephas, son of Iona, to whom You gave the keys to the Kingdom of the Heavens; [as You accepted] Paul the Renown, formerly Saul, whom You showed to be the Herald of the Gospel by a revelation and a chosen vessel.

>Likewise, send down upon [Your servant] Your heavenly grace upon undergoing the organic modification of gender, for the biological alteration of nature is a wondrous work of Your all-powerful right hand and Your inscrutable will, and amazed by this new and astounding work, we confess Your grace, we herald Your mercy and, declaring Your magnificence, we glorify Your indescribable love for humanity.

>Grace Your servant (name) in Your sanctification and make HIM (or “HER”) worthy to keep HIS (or “HER”) own vessel without stain and blameless, likewise guarding the pledge of baptism inviolate and undefiled, and as a child of light, advancing in Your precepts and completing HIS (or “HER”) remaining years, ascribing glory to You all the days of HIS (or HER) life.

>By the intercessions of Your All-pure Mother, the radiant Archangels, the Honorable Forerunner and Baptist John; the holy glorious and all-famed Apostles, and all Your saints. Amen.

Intersex is a birth defect along the same lines as someone being born with a cleft lip or whatever. Obviously it's not the fault of the child. Unfortunately trans activists often appeal to intersex to help themselves when it's a completely different issue.

My thought on it would be that if the child is obviously closer to one sex than the other it would not be wrong for them to get surgery to look more like that sex (wait until they're old enough to know for sure) and then marry someone of the opposite sex. Orthodox and Catholic would probably say they have to be celibate if they cannot produce children since they see that as the purpose of marriage.

I see transgenderism as different. Although trans activists often claim a 'trans woman' is born with the brain patterns of a woman but the body of a man. So they claim it is like being intersex but with a body of one sex and the brain of another rather than body parts of both sexes like with intersex people. However they don't present evidence of this, certainly not in every single case. I mean if every trans person had to get a brain scan to prove they had the brain of the opposite sex before transitioning, there would be way, way less people transitioning, if any. Especially when you look at 'trans girls' who post online, they usually seem to have stereotypically male (nerdy male, but still male) interests like video games, comic books, male-aimed anime.

I found Pastor Anderson's thoughts on this:

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/transcript_using_right_words.html

That's the biggest difference between the 1984 NIV, and thank God for the King James, it doesn't change. That's the same, despite what all the liars will tell you, it's the same as it was in 1611, and if you don't believe me, there's a replica back there that weighs 20-some pounds of a 1611 King James. Go look at it, it'll say the same thing as this one says, but these new bibles are changing to become more gender neutral, and people are confused now. They don't even know that there's a difference between male and female, man and woman, and every time I go down to the community college and preach about homosexuality, you know what the students come to me and tell me? "Well what about people that are born with both? What about people that are both male and female? What about them?" This is the kind of stupidity today that our young people are being taught in these institutions of higher learning.

"That some people are just born both male and female." That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life, and I kept hearing it over and over again, "Oh, they're born with both, they're born with both." It's so stupid. I actually went out and got a book and read a book about it. It wasn't even a Christian book, just a science book. Just what are all these idiots talking about? I look it up, it doesn't even exists to be born with both. That's so stupid. "But Pastor Anderson …" No. It doesn't exist.

Anybody who knows science knows it doesn't exist, because anybody who knows anything about science knows that, and I don't want to get graphic here, obviously, in front of children and everything, but anybody who knows anything about science about a baby who develops in its mother's womb, and I've had 8 kids so I've had a lot of time to think about these things and have gone through 8 pregnancies with my wife, knows that the same part that becomes the male anatomy is the same part that becomes the female anatomy, and for the first so and so weeks, 8, 9, 10 weeks in utero development, there's difference between male and female in the womb. When it first starts out, it's the same.

Then when it gets to a certain point of development … I don't have the weeks memorized, but I want to say it's around 8 or 10 weeks is where it starts to diverge, where it will either turn into the male organ or it will turn into the female organ, but it's the same exact organ in the beginning, and it goes one way or the other, so how can you have 2? That'd be like saying that there's a man with 2 or that there's a woman with 2. It's stupid. It's not real. It doesn't exist, but they'll lie to you and tell you "Oh, these hermaphrodites, blah, blah, blah." No, there are men that are deformed, that are underdeveloped, and then there are women that are deformed that are overdeveloped, but they are either male or female. Chromosomally, they're either male or female, because you're either chromosomally male or chromosomally female. It's that simple.

Now you could be a feminine man or a manly woman, you could be the bearded lady, but that doesn't make you hermaphrodite. It's not real, and I have read up on this from secular sources. This isn't even a Christian book, okay? It's a lie, but they just want to confuse you with some weird exception, some bizarre deformity somewhere that they can point at out of all the 7 billion people in the world, find somebody that's deformed, and then lie about their deformity to people who don't understand gestation of a child in its mother's womb, and then they'll just get "Oh well, in that case, let's just throw out everything the bible says about sodomites. In that case, let's have men marrying other men and women marrying other women."

>>569251

Trannies need to repent. Intersex are ok.

>>569274

Pastor Steve is a regular Trump. What he's saying isn't all that controversial, but it's worded in such a way that will piss off lefties.

<Steven Anderson is calling for a ban on homosexual life until we can find out what the Hell is going on!

>>569251

Op, No man, hates himself.

On this point, indeed, no question was ever raised by any sect. But neither does any man hate his own body. For the apostle says truly, "No man ever yet hated his own flesh." And when some people say that they would rather be without a body altogether, they entirely deceive themselves.

For it is not their body, but its corruptions and its heaviness, that they hate. And so it is not no body, but an uncorrupted and very light body, that they want.

But they think a body of that kind would be no body at all, because they think such a thing as that must be a spirit. And as to the fact that they seem in some sort to scourge their bodies by abstinence and toil, those who do this in the right spirit do it not that they may get rid of their body, but that they may have it in subjection and ready for every needful work.

For they strive by a kind of toilsome exercise of the body itself to root out those lusts that are hurtful to the body, that is, those habits and affections of the soul that lead to the enjoyment of unworthy objects.

They are not destroying themselves; they are taking care of their health.

Those, on the other hand, who do this in a perverse spirit, make war upon their own body as if it were a natural enemy. And in this matter they are led astray by a mistaken interpretation of what they read: "The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh, and these are contrary the one to the other."

For this is said of the carnal habit yet unsubdued, against which the spirit lusteth, not to destroy the body, but to eradicate the lust of the body–i.e., its evil habit–and thus to make it subject to the spirit, which is what the order of nature demands.

For as, after the resurrection, the body, having become wholly subject to the spirit, will live in perfect peace to all eternity; even in this life we must make it an object to have the carnal habit changed for the better, so that its inordinate affections may not war against the soul. And until this shall take place, "the flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh;"

the spirit struggling, not in hatred, but for the mastery, because it desires that what it loves should be subject to the higher principle; and the flesh struggling, not in hatred, but because of the bondage of habit which it has derived from its parent stock, and which has grown in upon it by a law of nature till it has become inveterate.

The spirit, then, in subduing the flesh, is working as it were to destroy the ill-founded peace of an evil habit, and to bring about the real peace which springs out of a good habit.

Nevertheless, not even those who, led astray by false notions, hate their bodies would be prepared to sacrifice one eye, even supposing they could do so without suffering any pain, and that they had as much sight left in one as they formerly had in two, unless some object was to be attained which would overbalance the loss.

This and other indications of the same kind are sufficient to show those who candidly seek the truth how well-founded is the statement of the apostle when he says, "No man ever yet hated his own flesh." He adds too, "but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the Church."

>>569251

https://www.firstthings.com/tag/transgender

Enjoy.

I'm so sick of the lies.

>>569251

>What I don't know about is intersex (hermaphrodism), it's not a choice to be born with male and female genitals so I don't know what to think about it.

Intersex is a stupid word. What does it even mean to be between sexes? The fact is that there are not true hermaphrodites among humans like there are in other species, there are only men and women and some small percentage of them can have development defects that resemble sexual traits of the opposite sex. For example, a boy born with a micropenis might be confused for a girl, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a boy, not some in-between person.

Therefore this issue should be treated like any other birth defect. Usually the misidentification is noticed during puberty, in which case it might be possible to correct it surgically to make the person resemble their actual sex. The mind is healthy, the body needs to be fixed. This is different from a transsexual where the mind is sick and the surgeon then makes the body sick as well. That's like breaking a patient's healthy leg so that both legs are broken.

As for whether such a surgical intervention should be necessary, I would say "no". Every surgery carries a risk and it would be wrong to force it on a person.