/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Everyone (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant) is doing what they can to evangelize, but it's difficult because Japanese people couldn't care less about taking religion seriously, and certainly not a religion that they see as being Western (for a lot of Japanese people, Orthodoxy = Russia, Catholicism = Europe, Protestantism = America - it doesn't even go through their mind that Christianity is a religion that began in Palestine).

I'm not sure there's much that can be done, besides showing off how cool Christian esthetics can be… It's not that we're doing a bad job at showing the Japanese the depth and meaning of Christian theology and anthropology, it's just that they don't care.

It's a pity too, because from what I know, the few serious Japanese Christians are really, really pious and serious about their faith. Their expression of the faith, shaped by Japanese tradition, is also amazing. Here's what Japanese Orthodox hymns sound like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RhK_0vwJ28

Yep, there's still missions there. Definitely not as 'in demand' as missions to Africa or South America, but it still happens.

>>565114

>Portrays Christ in a benevolent light

>Not good

Think before you post you lamebrain.

>>565079

Let's leave them alone honestly. Sooner or later we'll get a Shinto-Christian polytheistic syncretism going viral on youth populations.

>>565119

*Otherwise, sooner or later

>>565123

That's not what the video is even about.

>>565156

I directly mentioned in >>565114 that I was talking about the game itself, not the video.

This is a failure on your part.

>>565195

>JC starts nigging out against the elitist natives

>gets crucified for it

An outcome foreseen by those who study history.

>>565074

That movie was Kino

>>565172

Can you please provide source of Hiroshima being and Arch-diocese pre 1945? Thank you.

>>565210

Correction on that image, it would seem - as per Wikipedia:

>May 4, 1923: Established as Apostolic Vicariate of Hiroshima from the Diocese of Osaka

>June 30, 1959: Promoted as Diocese of Hiroshima

Nagasaki is apparently older:

>May 22, 1876: Established as Apostolic Vicariate of Southern Japan from the Apostolic Vicariate of Japan

>June 15, 1891: Promoted as Diocese of Nagasaki

>May 4, 1959: Promoted as Metropolitan Archdiocese of Nagasaki

>>565195

>Jesuits try to get Buddhists to stop buggering little boys

>get killed for it

Really ferments the century egg

>>565074

>>565124

>They were forced to go underground and their numbers started diminishing due to persecution after foreign Protestant Dutch came to side with the Buddhists.

Thats really oversimplifying it. The reason why the crackdown happened wasn't because the Dutch turned up. It was because of paranoia from the leadership of there being a disloyal and possible fifth column forming. Largely because revolting lords were Christians who professed allegiance to a European.

Next you have the dubious actions of the Jesuits who focused on converting the nobility - often through economic and military gifts/aide and having them pressure the locals.

Finally you had small groups of Catholics who started wrecking Buddhist temples and statues.

Its a classic case of Europeans being Machiavellian and having bad results.

>2. The rest were killed off by the nuclear bombs dropped in 1945 on the two cities with the highest Catholic populations, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Do you have sources on this the closest I can find the numbers for just Nagasaki was 10,000 Catholics total.

>>565210

>>565172

Friendly Reminder it isnt. Not only does it ignore things like Tokyo (and simply that there was no Arch dioceses until in either of those until one in 1959)

-It pretends that Truman had full control and personally selected the sites to be bombed - which he didnt

-That Truman despite being in control of the Catholic part of Germany and the heart of Catholicism itself Italy left them effectively untouched. So the man who was so desperate to kill Catholics he used nukes just to kill not even 20K of people for some reason perfectly happy to leave 50 million European Catholics alone.

The information you post is simply dishonest and illogical, being no different than the kind of conspiracies you see protestants leveling at Catholics

>>565387

>Truman despite being in control of the Catholic part of Germany and the heart of Catholicism itself Italy left them effectively untouched.

Laughably inaccurate from a historical perspective. What he didn't do with bombs he did with the CIA.

>>565388

>Laughably inaccurate from a historical perspective.What he didn't do with bombs he did with the CIA.

How so?

>>565390

You only need to look at postwar Italian politics. There's tens of books dedicated to the subject and multiple confessions of undercover agents of both the American State and freemasonry which you can keep yourself occupied with.

>>565392

>You only need to look at postwar Italian politics

Like the the Truman giving Italy billions through Marshal Aid and giving millions to centrist parties so to counteract the communist ones?

>here's tens of books dedicated to the subject and multiple confessions of undercover agents of both the American State and freemasonry which you can keep yourself occupied with.

So you should have no trouble providing examples of how Truman was just as destructive (although were he as anti Catholic as you claim it should have been far worse in Italy and Germany) as he was towards Japan.

>>565395

>giving millions to centrist parties

Oh is that why the entire Italian constitution and penal code read like re-editions of the communist manifesto?

>So you should have no trouble providing examples of how Truman was just as destructive as he was towards Japan.

Knock yourself out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

>>565401

>Oh is that why the entire Italian constitution and penal code read like re-editions of the communist manifesto?

No its why the Soviet aligned and atheist communist party never took over.( how do you think they would have treated the Church)

>Knock yourself out

So your proof of Truman committing an act as bad as the nuclear bombings of Japan in Italy is:

A criminal masonic group who 15 years after the end of the Truman government took over and then 20 years later collapsed a bank which made dodgy overseas investments and funded anti communist and communist groups of whom the Vatican was a shareholder in.

Dont you see how paltry and disjointed this argument is? We have a man who could have seen Italy bathed in fire or delivered to atheist socialists instead choose to plow billions of dollars in aide and millions of dollars to anti communist groups. Why would he do any of these things if he wanted to destroy Catholicism? - Or do you genuinely think Truman had to do this as part of a 40 year plan to topple one bank after his death?

>>565425

Just adding to this what evidence would you require to not believe that Truman nuked Japan out of Anti Catholic sympathies?

Would it be showing the Catholic members of his cabinet?

The tens of billions of Aid he gave to Catholic Countries

How about him preventing atheist socialists from taking over Catholic countries?

Or would it be the outlining of how the nuclear sites were chosen?

>>565072

God you people are scummy.

Why Japan? Because this is a regular topic. We know why. Japan isn't utterly fucked, so you pick them to convert, while the West falls apart. Then you feel smug because "hey look how well X is doing".

Unless you live in Poland, stop fucking with Japan and fix your own damn country. Japs may be pagan, but let's NOT interfere until we can fix the west otherwise this would just be Japan going down the same damn path. You want them Catholic? You mean the same Catholic Church headed by a globalist, communist and progressive who despises traditionalists?

>maybe OP does but I'm Protestant

Oh, so you want Church of Sweden lesbian bishops?

If Japan is fine, leave it be. Because right now, the west is falling apart and far deeper in sin and evil.

>>565434

> God you people are scummy

Wanting a country to convert to the Christian faith is scummy? What are you, a shinto weeb?

> Japan isn't utterly fucked, so you pick them to convert, while the West falls apart. Then you feel smug because "hey look how well X is doing"

At this point most of Japan is indeed in deep trouble. They don’t believe and are condemned already. They’ve also got a rapidly declining population and are incredibly perverted and escapist. But since you’re probably a /pol/ weeb, you think everything is fine in Japan simply because they have muh homogeneous society. Also the main reason /christian/ is so focused on Japan seems to be because this place is full of weebs as well. Nothing wrong with wanting to convert the Japanese but they’re no more worthy or in need than any other group of unsaved people.

> Unless you live in Poland, stop fucking with Japan and fix your own damn country. Japs may be pagan, but let's NOT interfere until we can fix the west otherwise this would just be Japan going down the same damn path. You want them Catholic? You mean the same Catholic Church headed by a globalist, communist and progressive who despises traditionalists?

Yeah let’s not try to save people’s souls, because liberalism exists in the Church. Absurd.

> If Japan is fine, leave it be

Japan isn’t fine, they’re a bunch of pagans.

> Because right now, the west is falling apart and far deeper in sin and evil

The overwhelming majority of Japan doesn’t believe in Christ. They’re clearly worse off in that regard than the West. Sinners in the West are more vocal and defiant in their sin, but well behaved pagans and loud obnoxious atheists are going to the same place.

>>565434

>God you people are scummy.

18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

Ya, Jesus Christ sure is scummy.

>>565504

There are non-Christian nations that need to be converted. I'd suggest US as a good spot to start.

>>565516

…Or you can quit chiding people for following Christ's directives. Asia definitely needs help, even more than US.

>>565520

Nowhere in my post am I "chiding" anyone. I'm just agreeing with the Anon that you need to help yourself before you can help others.

>>565522

I go to a Catholic Church in the USA that is blessed with a full house every Sunday; from where I sit, Asia needs help.

>>565528

I think you're incredibly blind of the situation the US is in.

>>565530

The word of God comes easy here, it's just a matter of who believes in it. It's easier for people to hear and turn away. In these countries, they do not have that luxury.

>>565459

The majority of the West doesn't believe in Christ either. It's rough all over.

>>565425

>No its why the Soviet aligned and atheist communist party never took over.

Judging by the state the constitution and penal code are in they didn't need to take over.

>do you genuinely think Truman had to do this as part of a 40 year plan to topple one bank after his death?

I mentioned the Propaganda Due just to show you a single lodge that was forced into the spotlight, how deeply rooted it was into the Italian elite, and how much damage it's done over its history. You should have wondered how many undiscovered lodges there are and who are their members, but you didn't.

>>565434

A lot of Japanese people and a good number of East Asians in general are honestly more tolerant of and curious about Christianity than a lot of Westerners are.

>>565434

This. The West just commited Apostesy in exchange for minimal entertainment, and the priority is Japan? Makes no sense.

Missionaries back then suceeded because west had a huge surplus of faith. Now there's a huge deficit of faith so it obviously won't work.

On a more unrelated note, no need to take it as scummy, it's just how clerics express their apreciation, they have only this way of living.

>>565725

no 2 prots have the same Jesus

>>565783

I don't even know if I should find this funny or truly sad.

>>565783

>>565790

At least they didn't try to cover up the fact that (((they))) killed Christ. The rest is just…autism. Precursor to shitty writing in anime.

>>565200

>>565334

>ignoring what might as well have been a small scale civil war/ peasant uprising

dey dindu nuffin

>>565741

If Christ had meant "but do not witness to every faith if your father and mother are heretics", He would have said that. Instead, He says He has come to divide you from your family.

May missionaries witness to the World eternal.

>>565844

Well my point of view is more about strategizing priorities.

Why did Japanese converted back then?

They saw the Priest as a strong guy, skilled with swords, firearms, able to speak many languages, pious, devout, moral and had just defied the unknown seas. Claims he couldn't have achieved that without faith.

Should they dislike the Priest, all crew is unironically fervently Christian anyway. So it's not just the Priest being a poser boy, the whole crew confirms being faithful is the norm for high achievers who don't fear death.

Today? You have to offer a homeland full of depravity, real one, not in drawings, leadership that is attacked by marxist propaganda, apostesy, problems in your ranks, problems in the apostate ranks, your home is a mess, everyone goes clubbing and sell their virginity for 10 bucks (a drink or two), historically high divorce rates.

Lots of dominating upper classes members who attack the Church also happen to be Talmudists, who say that Barrabas did no wrong.

And then you ask, "hey wanna be part of this?"

The Christian Japanese descendant from the Christians of back then are better suited from a Japanese Christian feedback and perspective on things.

Back then we had a surplus of faith to share. Now we have a deficit of faith.

Let's understand our position. Jesus told his followers to fight smart..

I mean I'm not condemning anyone who wants to spread the gospel, but please understand we have no surplus of fervant faith as there was in XV century.

>>565072

I believe it's "Japanians" not Japaneses

>>565720

Before I tackle the points your brought up can you answer >>565428 Im getting the sense that there is literally no evidence that would change your mind regarding Truman and what happened in Japan.

>>565979

>Would it be showing the Catholic members of his cabinet?

Were they practicing or nominal? How compliant were they to Church doctrine?

>The tens of billions of Aid he gave to Catholic Countries

Like Poland? Or do you mean "aid" that really was meant to be realpolitik against the soviets?

>How about him preventing atheist socialists from taking over Catholic countries?

See the reply above

>>565984

The thing I into wanted you to answer was

"what evidence would you require to *not* believe that Truman nuked Japan out of Anti Catholic sympathies?"

Those points were just examples of things I could discuss, but really theres no real point if they have no bearing on your final assessment of the question.

>>565988

Ultimately we will never know what orders the pilots received and from whom. The bombs were unprecedented in human history and a matter certainly worthy of full presidential attention. Paper is written on by men, they decide what the papers will say. You can bring me written orders, but ultimately neither of us will be able to tell what really happened.

>>565995

>Ultimately we will never know what orders the pilots received and from whom

You would be surprised, they had a committee formed by Lt General Groves (who directed the Manhattan Project) and comprised of scientists from that project and air force officers who deliberated over it for 3 months before the final target was chosen, it was fairly drawn out and well documented.

Whilst we can never have 100% knowledge of anything we have a lot to work with here.

>be able to tell what really happened.

So why be so adamant that it was an anti Catholic plot by Truman? You seem to be extremely certain that other actions of his were merely realpolitik why not this one.

>>566004

His point with Propaganda Due was that bombing Italy would be off charters as Italy had too many mason friends I guess.

Tbh Masonry with its secretism kinda invites all conspiracy theories.

Secretism isn't the worse, but rather the weird rituals done, maybe to average materialistic hedonistic person they mean nothing, other people will look at it some other way.

>>566004

>His point with Propaganda Due was that bombing Italy would be off charters as Italy had too many mason friends I guess.

The reasoning gets rather strained when you consider that Truman and FDR (who was a mason as well) had no trouble firebombing the hell out of masons in Germany.

But really for conspiracy theorists everything affirms their position.

Truman helps Catholics - "Ah what clever and subtle realpolitik"

Truman doesnt help or harms Catholics - "No realpolitik here just proof of a plot to destroy Catholicism"

>Tbh Masonry with its secretism kinda invites all conspiracy theories.

Its a bit more complex than that especially in a country like Italy which has a unique history of secret societies and organised crime.

A lot of the modern conspiracies about them remind me of those against Jews and Jesuits.

Sorry

>>566013

was for

>>566006

>>565072

Just tell them about Catholicism and Pedophilia.

>>566013

My point just rests that Masonry with symbology everywhere, and a weird degree of ocasional advertisment, and the ritualistic deeds, is sort of very appealing to conspiracy theories.

Can't blame him. Masonry is that kind of secret society that dislikes being completly secret, leading to all kinds of weird scenarios.

>>566027

>saint Stalin

>no halo on his head

>>566004

>So why be so adamant that it was an anti Catholic plot by Truman?

Not really, I've just been arguing because I like it. Also because I'm angry about what the allies have done to my hometown and country. Ultimately fact checking is boring, it's much more fun to do it on somebody else's argument to prove them wrong.

>You seem to be extremely certain that other actions of his were merely realpolitik why not this one.

Uh, which one exactly?

>>566036

>Not really, I've just been arguing because I like it. Also because I'm angry about what the allies have done to my hometown and country.

I can kind of understand that, conspiracies make the the world easier to understand and make it easier to assign blame.

For a time I was an interwar pastaboo

>Uh, which one exactly?

The nuclear bombings and the Marshal Plan

>>566037

>conspiracies

I don't even consider the existence of conspiracies, I just know that crooks like crooked company and together with their peers do all kinds of evil and cover for each other in the process as long as it's convenient for all parties involved. Call them masons, jews, satanists, politicians, mobsters, whatever you like, it's always the same dynamic and I know what to expect from them since they're all enemies of our Lord.

>The nuclear bombings […] were realpolitik

My argument is that dogs don't chirp and fly, just like a mason politician doesn't let an event this significant happen without following it extremely closely and influencing it as much as possible.

>>566048

>I just know that crooks like crooked company and together with their peers do all kinds of evil and cover for each other in the process as long as it's convenient for all parties involved.

Its a fine line you are treading though when it comes to the level of co-operation and final goals.

For instance we have great evidence of WWI being the product of a conspiracy between high level German and Austrian officials to end the Russian and Balkan threats. However it would be incorrect to extend the conspiracy to it being a plot to end monarchy in Europe and make everyone in debt to bankers.

>My argument is that dogs don't chirp and fly, just like a mason politician doesn't let an event this significant happen without following it extremely closely and influencing it as much as possible.

And non masonic politicians don't try and influence extremely significant events?

>>566062

A mason even more so, by the nature he displays by his preferred company.

>>565072

>Does missions to Japan still exists ?

Addendum: And how long will it take for the masonic murricans to destroy them this time?

>>566032

>Saint stalin

>Cursed God on his deathbed

Is it legal to knock doors and preach the Word in Japan?

>>567260

Yes.

>>565074

Take it up with God, the second bomb wasn't even meant for that city and was dropped there by pure happenstance and the desire to not come back with a full payload.

>>565072

Start at the lowest level and work your way up, start with the kids.

>>566027

FYI, this is an icon of St Matrona of Moscow trying to turn Stalin away from his evil deeds and toward God. Stalin is not portrayed in a positive light in the slightest here - his back turned to the saint, to the icons, and to the cathedral, with a dismissive stance as well.

>>565072

Make Christianity Japanese.

>>565209

>Kino

Go away

>>565783

all chans are anime boards with weebs

>>567281

Oh.. what about >>566032 ? Was that just commie PR?

>>565434

> Japan isn't utterly fucked

Top kek. Literally the perfect example of a culture in decline, even better than the West. How can someone be this delusional?

>>565428

>How about him preventing atheist socialists from taking over Catholic countries?

You mean the Catholic countries he and that spineless Roosevelt threw to the Soviets after WW2?

>>567712

why are they not utterly fucked?

>>567749

Ask the guy who said they aren't. I said that they are.

>>567754

why are they utterly fucked in your words that is?

>>567695

Yes, the second one is of course schismatic, uncanonical nonsense (like the icons of St Hitler, the icons of the Tsar taking the throne of Christ at the second coming, etc). But the first one is a legitimate icon.

>>567695

Also, funnily enough, the scene depicted in the first icon is also in the second "icon," to the left of St Stalin - except he has a halo there.

>>567754

answer me flesh eater

>>565434

>Japan isn't utterly fucked

The country where man have 2d girlfriends and the birthrates are extremely low isn't fucked up?

>>567774

>>567763

Oh so you mistyped.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/japan-sex-problem-demographic-time-bomb-birth-rates-sex-robots-fertility-crisis-virgins-romance-porn-a7831041.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/young-people-japan-hikikomori-anxiety-a7329396.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/japans-falling-birth-rate-posing-serious-problems-for-economy-a7770596.html

http://time.com/3998563/virtual-love-japan/

This a not fucked culture according to you? If this is not a dying society then nothing is.

>>567774

Flesh Eater is a great name for a Catholic metal band btw.

>>567793

thats it? society will always have a problem. This country is still better than mexico, s.a, and southern europe.

When you give women rights this is what happens. They dont want a normal beta male anymore instead they chase chad. Theres absolutely no reason for them to marry because they are not dependent on men anymore.

Other than that Japan is still 100x better than the 3rd world usa

>>567797

"That's it"?! You are actually crazy. Women were "given rights" all over the planet, yet youth are not dating vidya anime girls en mass in the West. This comment just proves that you are high on your weeb shit and don't actually know what you're talking about.

>>567793

>>567800

The only chance you have at new converts given the degenerate state of the west is to teach hikkimoris how to deal with society and associating their recovery with the faith in Christ. Teaching them how to deal with women too.

That will impress both the Hikkimoris and the people around them. None of Jap made stuff can heal Hikkimorism, then it's fair to try something else to make them join work force with some faith in Christ rather than let them suicide out of depression.

>>567277

>Start at the lowest level and work your way up, start with the kids.

Hikkis have nothing to lose and many of them considering suicide. If christian faith could reform them into salaryman, that would be impressive to many.

>>566062

But there's plenty of documentation of anti-monarchy activity by Masons in WWI period.

>>567793

>muh birthrate

It can't expand forever. Stop calling something natural as a sign of collapse.

Once it dips it will rise again.

Japan is also eliminating its own debt, not propping up birthrates with Muslim immigrants, not covering up rape gangs, not filled with drug addicts, not having a shit ton of abortions, not attacking its own traditions and culture, not starting wars for globalists, not having terrorist attacks every month, etc.

Japan is safe, clean and looking towards the future. Meanwhile the west now debates on 8am tv, can children choose their gender.

Japan will survive. Just look at post tsunami Japan vs America after Katrina. One had looting, the other had lines and order. Hell America has regular riots and looting now with Antifa and BLM.

Why bother. Preaching to the Japanese is like preaching in a gay night club. They are a morally depraved people to the core.

>>567800

Its crazy for you because you dont understand it. Japan is the future and all first world countries will follow japans footsteps if you give women rights.

>>567839

>But there's plenty of documentation of anti-monarchy activity by Masons in WWI period.

There were also masons who were pro monarchy - and even one who was a literal monarch as late as 1910. Just like how there were Jews who were pro and anti war during that period.

You have to be discerning with the inferences you make from your information

>>568338

Hand them out to the garbage bin

>>568346

Why do you say that?

>>568372

Do you think chick tracts have any theological value?

>>568374

There is nothing theologically objectionable at all in this particular tract which is why I picked it over the others. This tract is nondenominational and doesn't attack the theology of any particular denomination nor depart at all from general orthodox Christian doctrines. I'm not going to hand out Chick tracts about the Masonic-Jesuit-anti-Zionist menace to the Japanese lol

>>568376

I guess it's fine then

>>568376

Which one is it?

>>568383

https://www.chick.com/m/reading/tracts/readtract.asp?stk=0085

>>568405

The final page is different in Japanese. There's no KJV onlyism (Japanese lol), no "The Next Step" plug, etc. Only thing that Catholics/Orthodox might object to is the Bible being the "final authority" line, but that is debatable amyway, and eh what can you do?

>Japan is also eliminating its own debt, not propping up birthrates with Muslim immigrants, not covering up rape gangs, not filled with drug addicts, not having a shit ton of abortions, not attacking its own traditions and culture, not starting wars for globalists, not having terrorist attacks every month, etc.

>Japan is safe, clean and looking towards the future. Meanwhile the west now debates on 8am tv, can children choose their gender.

>Japan will survive. Just look at post tsunami Japan vs America after Katrina. One had looting, the other had lines and order. Hell America has regular riots and looting now with Antifa and BLM.

Exactly all this. What do you have to offer Japan? They're already morally superior in many aspects WITHOUT religion. And forgive me for saying this, but the state of the church in the world today is pathetic. I'm not hearing about any people being healed or raised from the dead. No Christians are making world news, I'm not hearing about any great men of faith…just dead religions and endless bickering.

Even you people on these chan sites, there's not a lick of difference between you and the weebs over on 4chan, I couldn't tell you apart if I tried. Infact some of you are even worse, especially the racist white supremacist trash that are in it for the politics. You're not a light to the world, don't make me laugh… that includes myself as well.

Guys before we go anywhere near Japan, we need to take a long hard look at ourselves. Regurgitating empty religious words we've heard 1000 times before isn't going to cut it.

>>568891

>the j*wish media don't report on miracles, that means they don't happen

Hello schlomo

>>568901

If something becomes big enough, the jewish media will have no choice but to report on it. do you think that they could have kept a man like jesus under wraps? there were hoards and crowds of people following him, same for the disciples…

Where is it all now? It's nowhere to be found. People say "be healed in JESUS name!" and nothing happens…it's just pretty pathetic man.

>>568927

So-called faith healers are scam artists and you know it; they lack the smallest sliver of faith and are hellbound.

>>568929

So Jesus was a scam artist? I'm not talking about faith healers, I'm talking about any healers. ANYTHING. There's NOTHING. Nothing amazing is happening in the church. People are fighting, like we're doing now, people argue over denominations and politics.. Why would Japan even begin to think Christianity has any credence to it? Why would they even consider it?

Sorry but the way I view the church in todays world (in the west at least) is utterly powerless.

>>568034

Just because a people have a different attitude to sex, doesn't make them depraved.

>>568935

They are sexually depraved by biblical standards, lets not overlook that. It may be considered natural, but the natural is in enmity with God.

Even so, they still conduct themselves far far better than the west does.

>>568931

>I'm not talking about faith healers, I'm talking about any healers.

No, you're talking about the scam artists you see on tv and read of on newspapers when their accomplices come clean.