/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>560487

If you like the aesthetic of the Eastern Orthodox Church, then there are always Eastern Catholic churches that you could go to. They have the Divine Liturgy just like the Orthodox, but are in full communion with Rome.

I would tell you that even the Church Fathers saw the Bishop of Rome as having singular authority over all the other bishops in matters of doctrine.

If you decided Catholic and you attend a Novus Ordo mass and find it too protestant for your taste, don't give up and try a Latin mass. TLM is completely different.I personally left the church until I discovered the Latin mass and never left since. Also there is no salvation outside the Catholic church so choose wisely friendo ;^)

I like those old holy orthodox men

wish we had catholic priests like those instead of a bunch of beardless commie shills

and statistically most catholics you meet will be liberal fag lovers, users of contraception, et cetera

catholicism really has nothing to recommend itself except that it's the truth

>>560491

>Know them by their works

Pretty much why I came down to these two in the first place. The zeal and faithfulness to the original Church and traditions and His teachings, the deep spirituality of both and whatnot. Some minor disagreements aside (still do not know whether is Orthodox 3 divorces is a meme or not and Catholic views about our Holy Mother Mary is still have not got in my head completely yet) on both side. I am still compelled to both churches, aesthetics aside, I am torn because I think both churches have half of the original Church pieces.

There are both Orthodox and Catholic church which I can attend with ease without being too much of a burden to myself. Catholic church is 15 minutes train ride away and Orthodox church (I also think it is eastern Orthodox, but I am not too sure) is 1 hour and a little bit more give or take ride.

>>560501

Re: Mary. The Eastern Church are just as autistic about her as we are, maybe even more so. That was actually one of the things that helped me with the idea of Marian devotion was seeing protestants (anglo-catholarps) and catholic schismatics doing it harder than the romans. Now I am fully autistic hyperdulia :D:D:D

I recommend you read the Eastern Orthodox Bible friend. It made me choose Rome.

>>560504

Funny, I would recommend the same. It made me go Orthodox without thinking twice.

>>560613

>(Vain Tradition exposed)

Honestly I don't want to go through another slog of Steven Anderson so I'll just reply to this part of the title

>God hated Tradition

No, not really. What he hated is that jewish stuff was getting mixed with his stuff. The tradition of the Church has always been form God, since we are his pillar of Truth.

>>560623

There is only one way to know if your traditions are divine or human. Jesus tells us in Mark 7:1-13 that the pharisees' tradition was of men because it contradicted the commandment of God in scripture. The only way to know if you are following traditions of men is to test them according to the bible, like Jesus did.

>unless you can find an Orthodox Church of America, most other churches are ethnic clubs

Certain ones maybe. Most Serbian and Romanian ones will be ethnic clubs, for example, but the Antiochian parish I go to is largely made up of converts, and the local ROCOR parish priest has the WASPiest name ever and isn't an ethnic Russian. And while I havent attended one here yet (aside from a monastery church), from what I've heard, the Greek Orthodox churches around here at least are pretty convert-friendly as well

>>560489

>I would tell you that even the Church Fathers saw the Bishop of Rome as having singular authority over all the other bishops in matters of doctrine.

Only if you quote mine hard enough. Even Augustine merely refers to Rome as *an* Apostolic See.

Peter received the keys first, but the other Apostles did receive them as well. And Acts shows that Peter was not considered to have any special authority compared to other church elders, and addressed other apostles and elders as equals. He even deferred to Paul on more than one occasion

A look at church history also doesnt help the case for absolute papal authority over the whole church. If the Pope always had absolute authority, the First and Third Ecumenical Councils would have never been needed (since the Roman Pope had already condemned Arius and Nestorius as heretics before said councils), the Second Council would not have been presided over by Meletius of Antioch (who was out of communion with Rome), The Fourth Council wouldnt have happened (since the Pope opposed it), and both the Fifth and Sixth were about anathematizing and excommunicating of the Pope over heresy (the Fifth ruled against it, since Pope Vigilius repented for his heretical writings, while the Sixth excommunicated and anathematized both Pope Honorius and Patriarch Sergius I of Constantinople as heretics)

The Patriarch of Rome had a special place of honor among Patriarchs in the early church, but he did not have absolute authority

>>560703

What's easier about being Catholic? Not trying to start a fight, just looking for elaboration on your views.

>>560706

i think he means practically for example i have to travel over an hour each week to go to church or i could walk 15 mins to my Catholic Church.

>>560487

Would have been a perfect Christ-chan.

But you had to give her a finger family…

>>560703

I don't think practicality should be much of a factor in what church one chooses. Faith alone should dictate

>>560490

Easier said than done. Here, there's a Latin mass once (1) a month only, and later than normal mass, in small chapel next to the huge cathedral. Not joking. Latin mass doesn't exist in most places.

Am I weak for not wanting to attend a Novus Ordo mass regularly and think Orthodox mass is better?

>>560487

Just pick the closest one. We have this thread every other day.

>>560863

I was hoping someone would pick up on that sola fide. Personally I don't think it out of the realm of possibilities to make such a drive (admittedly I couldn't do that every Sunday, but I will take your point there as others may not share my enthusiasm for travel. I suppose my main issue with your statement was about the restoration of one Church. I hope for this to come too, but I don't think that one should join a church with that practical idea in mind. He should go where he feels welcome and closer to God.

>>560867

>He should go where he feels welcome and closer to God.

I couldn't disagree more, it's about keeping the word of God. How could you recommend someone go to a church where the word of God isn't even respected, for instance? Somewhere where it's put side by side with men's words. It's almost like you don't have faith in it if that's what you think.

>>560840

>Am I weak for not wanting to attend a Novus Ordo mass regularly and think Orthodox mass is better?

No. You are just right. Orthodox mass is better than Novus Ordo for sure.

But you can always gather some people (5 can do the job) and ask you local bishop to put more TLM during the month. Go in this latin mass and talk to the parishioners about this.

>>560879

Jesus is worshipped with latria above all in both roman and eastern churches m8. He is THE word of god.

>>560932

My english is not good, but I will try

The popes don't contradict themselves.

But! you will say: take the death penalty issue

yeah, earlier popes were for it, and st. Thomas Aquinas justified it, along most theologians.

But that was back in the day, when all the realms were christians. Real christians. Now most states are secular at best and outright anti-christian at worst. do you want these states deciding who lives and dies?

And that's not the only reason. Theology, like any field of human knowledge, has incremental advances, now don't take me wrong, the dogmas are like mathematical axioms, unchanging for ever (like the nature of Christ) but our understanding of the faith goes deeper each time.

So, all I'm saying is, when a pope says something, you bet he is not talking out of his ass. You got to consider the context, situation, etc.etc.

Even then, when he's not defining dogma (and that happens almost never) the pope is another dude just like anyone, he has his opinions and you can disagree of course.

There's millions of christians out there. We won't see eye to eye in most political matters. That should not affect your faith.

Anyway, hope you honestly reach a solution.

>>560894

Good idea, I'll see what I can do.

>>560931

>>560932

This.

This is an extremely complicated choice that I've only be able to partially discuss with a Catholic autist online that got pissed because I opposed race mixing

bump

>>560931

>a man who believes and teaches heresey

Why do you bear false witness? You know that your lies are not going to hold up after a simple Google search, but yet you still lie What do you mean here?

>>560932

Hi, friend.

>There were good popes, and bad popes, but the core of the denomination itself does not falter with the head (but can be affected by it).

To get you started, I wholeheartedly recommend that you read this article (or at least skim it): http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm

It addresses the papacy and the Church's beliefs about the papacy, something that has been believed since the very beginning of the Church.

>But then again, "no salvation outside the Church" pretty much scares me (might be heretical thought but I think it might refers to the original Church which in my opinion both Catholic and Orthodox Church both hold the each half of the original pieces metophorically).

It certainly can be overwhelming! At least it was for me when I started investigating into Catholicism.

I suggest you watch the video I attache and also give these articles a read (the video and articles discuss the same thing and the apologist in the video even suggests reading these articles):

(1) https://www.catholic.com/tract/salvation-outside-the-church

(2) https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-there-really-no-salvation-outside-the-catholic-church

(3) https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means

>Catholic Chuch takes 15 minutes train ride

If you get the opportunity, you should definitely go and experience the Sacrifice of the Mass and perhaps speak with the priest!

Let us know if you need any clarifications on this material and may God bless you! :D

diapers

>>562029

>Bergoglio supports same sex civil unions. No link sorry didnt have time

No links because you're full of crap.

>Bergoglio giving communion to Pro-abortionists

Other Patriarchs are similarly guilty of giving communion to people who openly show they disagree with the Church.

>Bergoglio on RESPECTING Islam's values and teachings

Patriarchates of Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria, and Moscow all have strong history with having friendly relations with Islam, up to now.

>Bergoglio saying Christ denying jews are gods chosen

>Anyone who denies Jesus Christ in NOT the "chosen people of god"

I suggest you read Romans and cease to understand other people in the least charitable context possible.

>Im not trying to "bear false witness"

Unfortunately, that's what you still did, and in fact you're doing it against your own Orthodox tradition by pretending that we're not equally guilty of these things, if not more so.

>>561510

OP, here. Watched the vid and skimmed the articles. Thanks for clarifying thing about No Salvation Outside the Church. Still kind of scares me plenty though.

Really scared witless and thinking that what if I died before receiving baptism or joined the church because I was reluctant, am I damned then?