0b896f No.559514
I don't know anything about Catholicism nor Mexico but how much is Mexican Paganism involved in Mexican Catholicism?
5db76f No.559522
Extremely involved. Many Mexicans, in fact Latin American Catholics in general, have little to no understanding of the catechism or even the Bible. Many are idolaters and use the icons as idols. Basic principles of the faith are completely unknown to them. It's such a problem that Protestant missionaries in recent years have seen a lot of success in Mexico as even relatively weak sauce Protestant arguments sound legit to a completely ignorant population of Church doctrine.
5793a8 No.559525
seems Mexico is in great need of inquisition tbh
1c97c2 No.559526
>>559522
>It's such a problem that Protestant missionaries in recent years have seen a lot of success in Mexico as even relatively weak sauce Protestant arguments sound legit to a completely ignorant population of Church doctrine.
American Protestants are successful because they target exclusively poor areas of Latin America and spend lots of funds there, essentially buying people over.
Want to be employed at the good paying job which is funded by the American Protestants? You have to be Protestants.
Want to get free handouts which are funded by the American Protestants? You have to be a Protestant.
It's the same as American Protestants offering Syrian Orthodox refuge only if they convert to Protestantism. Outright disgusting.
Instead of targeting impoverished Catholic and Orthodox regions, Protestants should try and convert non-Christians (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, etc).
5db76f No.559529
>>559526
That tactic is disgusting but your claim that a supermajority of the conversions can be explained by that tactic does not seem true to me. Have you actually been to Mexico? Do you speak Spanish? If so, are you denying that the average Mexican understands very little about Church doctrine?
ac02d1 No.559533
Argiefag here and that is true, they do target poor and sadly, ignorant areas and offer a strong community that will help you. Most people don't know doctrine, that's also true.
ac02d1 No.559536
I mean, I live in Buenos Aires and JW and evangelics are only around poor areas. I know some nice middle-class catholic neighborhoods and you will NEVER see them around there.
It's not only financial issues, but also people there are usually more knowledgeable about doctrine, with private catholic schools and universities and all.
5db76f No.559540
>>559536
If you mean like you only see people going door to door in those areas, they wouldn't be allowed into most subdivisions, developments or apartment complexes. That doesn't really reflect on what churches people in that area attend.
1c97c2 No.559545
>>559529
I'm from Europe, but my sister-in-law is Latin American. She tells us about all of this and a lot of her family reiterated her points when I was over there.
I'm not trying to single you out, it's not just Protestants, the Orthodox missionaries there love to do the same and work along with the Protestants to get more converts.
>If so, are you denying that the average Mexican understands very little about Church doctrine?
The situation for the average Mexican, or Latin American for that matter, is the same as in North America (USA or Canada). There's a lot of cultural Catholicism, similarly to cultural Protestantism, but add in to the equation rampant poverty. A large percentage is properly catechized (taught the teachings of the Church), but these tend to be the better off people. The problem is that the missionaries only target poor regions. It's a snake move.
43e7eb No.559549
From my limited understanding, they're a lot more superstitious down there.
139ebd No.559550
Mexican Catholic reporting in. It's a delicate scale: either most people are devoutly religious and follows the teachings of the Church to the bone (usually the older generation) or a an ignorance similar to American Catholicism. The whole santa Maria pagan stuff is hard to come by, its more of an underground thing that's persecuted by the religious and rightly so. But it's s problem nonetheless yet it's played up by people claiming Latin Americans aren't really Christian.
394651 No.559577
>>559514
I never understood how this could even exist.
I'm pretty sure that when catholicism still had a firm grasp over there that these kind of practices were strictly monitored or even prohibited.
What went wrong?
60b93e No.559581
4f1d50 No.559595
>>559529
I have family there Protestant, I visited them every summer when I could.
Many Protestants over there prey on those without family and those who are suffering material need. They made quite a few gains during the recession, when peso values dropped and people who had previously agreed to pay their debts in dollars took a massive hit financially. Some even became homeless.
In comes the Protestant with a bag of comfort carbs and "friendship" of course that only keeps coming as long as you progress (and eventually convert).
It's not just Protestants though as the Catholic poster above me stated, it's also Orthodox and of special note, the Hare Krishna.
I've also seen this type of "missionary" work in the US (albeit in a less obvious way, as a richer country we tend to focus on the ethics of such work)
I used to volunteer for the city family shelter. Good times. The city shelter would shelter the poor, the Catholic church would feed the poor (daily) and on weekends a Protestant group would commandeer the kitchen and serve hot dogs/burgers (snack bags) to the poor.
The Protestants would only help you if you listened to their sermon though. I always thought that was messed up.
That being said, I don't believe ALL Protestants were that way. I remember a certain woman in San Francisco (when I was a hungry student waiting for my bus to go home). She gave me a bag of snacks and a smile so genuine I think about it to this day. No advertising for her church, no coercion, Just happiness to be in service to the Lord.
Whenever I do a good deed I use her as a barometer to how happy I should feel. Never got close, but I got a goal in mind now. :)
c03c90 No.559600
Not calling BS on the comments about Orthos, I could see that being true, but does anyone have any sources? I'm mostly interested in who are the Orthos doing these things and which jurisdiction they are under
43e7eb No.559602
>>559595
This is a true observation. Even the Protestant charitable services in America follow the same format. 'I'll give you some free groceries if you listen to my sermon' kind of thing.
99e0cc No.559605
>>559602
>'I'll give you some free groceries if you listen to my sermon' kind of thing.
if you believe giving someone the gospel is something beneficial to them, is this actually wrong/immoral/un-ethical/sinful in some way?
43e7eb No.559613
>>559605
Isn't there a verse about how they'll know Christians by their works?
80e66d No.559629
>>559514
That skull thing looks pretty badass tbh
99e0cc No.559641
>>559613
you tell me.
i think i know what passage you have in mind, i want to see how you can articulate its relevance to this.
43e7eb No.559648
>>559641
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
Matthew 5:16
Time and time again, I've seen people turned away from Christ when Witnessed to in the traditional sense. People just don't want to hear it from what I can tell. Reminds me of when Christ tells the Apostles that 'the people have closed their ears'(paraphrasing). People are however impressed when they see some one living the Christian life. Like moths to a flame. They see Holy Spirit working in and through you and they want that kind of life. And so, I consider it a form of Witnessing in and of itself to try to be as Christ-like as possible. And possibly a more powerful form than merely preaching the Good News.
That's like, just my opinion though lol.
b7fe25 No.559686
>>559522
This. Most Mexicans are very devout, but understand very little about Christianity. Mary worship is a huge thing over there.
1c97c2 No.559691
>>559686
Keep in mind the difference between dulia and latria, though. :)
8117c0 No.559884
>>559536
>buenos aires
Yagu?
eb7fda No.559895
Cortez did not wipe out the aztecs enough.
cbb99d No.559916
well, Santa Muerte is pretty much like voodoo in Haiti and macumba in Brazil…they mixed folklore and Catholic faith/symbols with demonic things.
I'd say it's rather a cultural thing than a merely religious one; in Italy we had pagan rites which were Christianized by removing the demonic root and replacing it with Christian values and giving a patron Saint to it.
>>559550
Thanks for the information
>>559595
> I remember a certain woman in San Francisco (when I was a hungry student waiting for my bus to go home). She gave me a bag of snacks and a smile so genuine I think about it to this day. No advertising for her church, no coercion, Just happiness to be in service to the Lord.
God bless her!
e91547 No.559947
>>559629
That's Saint Death, an icon of Satan worshiped by narcos.
80e66d No.559954
ad0c8a No.560006
Mexican Catholicism was decimated by marxists like 100 years ago iirc
874d7b No.560567
>protestants only evangelize the poor
1. evangelizing the poor isn't wrong
2. wealthy communities in Mexico tend to be very insulated and hard to reach. most wealthy people live in gated compounds or buildings with guards.
3. i have met families of mexican protestants. one of them told me they left the catholic church when the priest asked for money to pray with their dying father, while a protestant minister asked for absolutely nothing. (this family, by the way, was actually very wealthy and wasn't enticed by any kind of alleged handout from the gringo protestants.)
e28c74 No.560629
>>559526
>Waaaah!
>Protties are fixing things we wouldn't touch with a forty foot pole!
>waaaaah!
>how dare they convert the heathens we've neglected!
>how dare they bring the word of God to the lost!
>waaaah!
Cry harder,
75c6e2 No.560633
>>560629
If you're replying like that, I'll seriously assume that you think charity is only for fellow believers.
e28c74 No.560653
>>560633
Charity is for those willing to follow the rules dictated by those giving. If you honestly believe that being told to listen to a sermon before receiving free food is too much, then maybe you should have been feeding them beforehand.
You don't get to let something fall to disrepair and then complain when someone else decides to fix it.
a23f4a No.560750
Just because preaching might be more effective in poor communities doesn't mean they are being inordinately targeted. That's just your cynicism talking, you're not a mind reader or part of the ministry yourself to know that. We don't need to give you monthly diversity reports to prove that we aren't discriminating.
cb9b4c No.562489
>>559514
You also have to keep in mind how Mexican culture is now also American culture. Pics related. These candles are sold at Walmart in the United States. Read about it here; http://www.luckymojo.com/sevenafricanpowers.html
85f5b2 No.562935
>>562489
I basically live at Walmart, went to at least 20 different Walmarts in different states and counties, never ever seen these before. :\
5e9248 No.562960
>>562935
They have them in the more predominantly Latino areas here in Southern California. Also >>>/walmart/
6adebe No.562966
>>559895
Cortez actually campaigned for their education and built Churches my man.
6adebe No.562967
>>562489
>>562960
Aside from Pancho Villa candles, we have only Catholic (real Cath.) candles in TX
aec620 No.563210
>>559522
It's also why they call their kids "Jesus" because they used to name their kids after their old gods and kept the tradition. Even though the rest of the world knows it's forbidden to give your child the same name as Christ.
0f6f39 No.563364
d37459 No.563366
>>562489
I don't know what this thing is but it seems not good
8e20fb No.563484
>>559514
You cannot fully convert a people who had a pagan system that worked for them.
Didn't even work in Europe, despite what you might think, but that's fine. Reality needs no internet arguments.
951e9c No.563507
>>559885
>>559600
https://oca.org/directories/organizations/project-mexico
I'm in an (orthodox) uni campus ministry group and though I've never been on one myself, I can confirm at least that Orthodox missionary trips to Mexico exist.
Not that I am so eager to criticize our brothers and sisters, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's occurring to some degree as it's described. If anything, college students are at least often naive enough to adopt these tactics.
5a1efc No.564292
>>559533
How degenerate is Argentina and South America in general?
I'm unironically considering learning Spanish or Portugese to escape Europe and degeneracy, I want to move somewhere conservative.
Are you guys mostly "Catholic" or not? I remember some protest before with topless feminists screaming about abortion, burning things and spitting at men.
I also hear Argentina, Brazil and Mexico are filled with drugs and prostitutes. Oh and women thinking they are virgins because they only do anal before marriage, and men who were on a (((vice))) documentary "practicing" with donkeys. It sounds really fucked up.
Other times I hear outside of cartels and government corruption, SA is a pretty conservative place.
5827e8 No.564367
>>559577
They always worshiped their indigenous gods in secret, mainly Tlaloc ad Huitzilopotchli, the flag itself represents Huitzilopotchli, he is the eagle and the snake it's his snake shaped weapon Xiuhcoatl.
da7c57 No.564368
>>563484
Dumb pagan pushing his dumb “Europe is still pagan guize!” meme.
460eae No.564369
>those darn protties feeding the poor!
Why couldn't the local churches shoulder the burdens of its parishioners?
6adebe No.564371
>>564369
Communism. The State. etc.
Protestants have a long and healthy relationship with totalitarian states, they don't require their parishioners to confess mortal sins, or obey the Pope.
460eae No.564392
>>564371
The Mexican government is suppressing the catholic church?
6adebe No.564414
>>564392
The Mexican Government isn't run by cartels?
ac1dc1 No.564423
>>560006
the christero war the proto marxist government that was active at the time decimated and killed off the original catholic followers.
there is a reason why leon trotsky died over there.
437761 No.564472
ac02d1 No.564559
>>564292
Brazil I don't really know, more degenerate than Argentina, we are less so than Europe because progressivism is progressive but don't expect it to be a traditional stronghold either, the LGBT and femenist lobby is really, really strong nowadays and a very vocal marxist militance. That's a minority anyways, most people are really clueless pagans fornicating and following new age feel good shit. Not so far gone tho, those abortionist demostrations are considered among most people as insanity and extremism. Most women are not feminist. Not saying that they are catholic or even christian, IT IS more conservative than Europe in general (around here, dudes often like to go on trips to Europe to fuck and find easy pussy since europeans are looser an easier than the average latina) but this is not the rule of Christ on earth either. Think Europe a few decades ago, maybe.
Now, there's also a very strong catholic (really catholic) core holding out, but they are a tiny minority. I'm in touch with them and I'm sure that around you there is also people like them.
cbb99d No.564563
>>564559
I’m Italian and I want to move to South America or Central America; all I want is to jump ship before it’s too late. Is it worth moving there?
ac02d1 No.564570
>>564563
It really depends on what you are looking for, if you seek to run away from progressives, I must warn you: you will find them here, in full force.
Many people are "catholic" in name only: meaning: yeah, I married in the Church, but I never go to mass and "i disagree with the church on x (gay marriage, etc etc)
cbb99d No.564583
>>564570
Cannot be as bad as here
bc8bbf No.564629
>>564563
You don't know how good you have it. Stay in Europe.
874d7b No.565070
>>564583
can speak for mexico.
1) there are many, many homosexuals and degenerates (at least in the national capital)
2) drug and alcohol abuse is very, very common.
3) sexual promiscuity is very common among both men and women.
4) even in the national capital, a relatively "neutral" and "safe" zone, there is excessive crime and violence on a daily basis.
5) the most devout christians i have met in mexico were all non-catholic. the majority of people claim to be catholic but never go to church and use events like baptisms as an excuse to throw parties and get drunk.
bc7972 No.572516
I'm a mexican catholic. I attend a church in spanish. I don't believe in honoring the dead or any of that stuff.
6adebe No.572519
>>572516
…so you don't believe in Saints? Or is this some gotcha line where you say "ya, but they aren't dead xD"?
bc7972 No.572526
>>572519
I was referring to Day of the Dead. I apologize for not being specific.
6adebe No.572545
64848c No.572602
>>559522
I agree. They have contaminated His teachings with a strange mixture of Aztec idolatry. Happens the same in Congo, with a lot of witchcraft and spirit worship. Someone should be destroying every santa muerte shrine. Having a good peaceful departure is not the same than worship death. This is a job for the inquisition.
The new pixar film considers it funny.