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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: e5ff239fb837a3c⋯.jpg (36.6 KB, 686x576, 343:288, 1485569277495.jpg)

988d9a No.543542

What's the point of having faith? Can't God just show up to everyone without any ambiguities?

19a743 No.543544

>>543542

>Can't God just show up to everyone without any ambiguities?

I wish he would but the current miracles are enough for me. Besides, leaving no room to increase faith would be a rather sore position.


dbb3a0 No.543550

>>543542

those who cannot comprehend the light will still reject it and hate it. In His infinite goodness, he has made it so they're less culpable for their sin so they have a chance at redemption, while making his faithful more meritorious.

Jn 1:5, Jn3:20-21, Ps14

finding God as an atheist requires humbling yourself before God, acknowledging your weaknesses and looking for the truth.


19a743 No.543554

>>543550

>those who cannot comprehend the light will still reject it and hate it.

This sort of this is why I was atheist for 20 years.

Why don't you post more proof? Some Christians are going off about intelligent design shit, other Christians are asking to just have faith, etc.

Yet Saint Thomas had to see Jesus Christ come around and asked to feel his wounds to see that god was real(See John 20:24-29)


d70dc2 No.543561

>>543542

Read the story of the rich man and Lazarus, it answers this question well.


d3eb6e No.543570

>>543554

St. Thomas believed in God. He was just skeptical that Jesus had truly risen. Plus, Thomas was rebuked for not believing.


138a2a No.543582

File: f61d6051b35ec96⋯.jpg (64.76 KB, 420x420, 1:1, Jesus and Joseph.jpg)

It wouldn't work.

There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores, desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented. And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren, That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

- Luke 16:19-31.


a216d3 No.543596

God wants u 2 have free will even though non belief is considered not only objectively false but absolutely morally harmful and yet the lack of good reason to believe necessarily leads many people to delusion and false apprehension of the world and apparently god cares about our free will to be delusional but didn’t care about any of the prophets or apostles or saints or anyone who ever witnessed God’s hand - deliberately covering up the most vital thing in the whole world is the only means of ensuring free will even though belief doesn’t ensure grace and perfection or even salvation since after all even Satan with perfect knowledge of God went against him


599849 No.543598

Well he will. But if yiu're nit already saved then you're screwed .

Also he already did once 2000 years ago and not everyone believed.


19a743 No.543616

>>543596

>>543598

I will say now that you should work on your English.


f12aa8 No.543632

>>543542

They still wouldn't believe in him even if he appeared. They already claim that Near Death Experiences are hallucinations.

You ultimately have to change yourself.


3d23bc No.543633

>>543542

>God creates you and the stars and the earth and everything in between…all signs of his power

Hurrrr But where is the evidence??

>writes his laws in our hearts and gives us divine intuition

Hurrr where is da proofs?

>sends prophets and revelation and miracles

Where da signs at?

>sends his son , guides apostles , establishes a church that can't be destroyed

But where are dem proofs?!!!

Seriously?!


2fd632 No.543638

Pretty much the Lazarus story as people have said.

>>543633

>>543542

God could literally come down to earth right now and make it "obvious" that it is well and truly Him speaking. And yet not many would believe. Atheists would assume that it's not God and instead one of the following:

- Aliens have made contact with humanity and are using the guise of gods for an easy way to manipulate humanity.

- Some person is using smoke and mirrors and the same sorts of tricks as magicians.

Without faith in God, when you see actual miracles happening, you'll just dig down and assume that it has a mundane explanation. That attitude is part of why it's not helpful to just have God show up. Every single miracle that happens, non-believers will just want to dig down and find some sort of mundane explanation of why it happened. They automatically reject any explanation involving God. Even if there's no way the miracle is physically possible, the non-believer assumes that there's some hidden factor involved. (And there *is* a "hidden" factor - God.)


a216d3 No.543678

>>543632

>They already claim that Near Death Experiences are hallucinations.

Do you take that to be obstinacy? It’s a sensible explanation. Within the Christian framework it already makes sense not to trust the human senses, and from what we know of the body and the mind NDEs can’t simply be trusted. Do you trust dreams?

>>543633

Lot of assumptions here. Religious explanations for the universe, man and for Being predate the Christian orthodox perspective - the fact of Creation doesn’t naturally, or rationally, lead to belief in the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. You assume divine intuition and indwelling moral law as fact, a priori. How can we know if it really exists or not? We are all brought up in a post-Christian world, its impossible to distinguish the natural law from the received conventions of our society - think of how many people think of things like abortion completely without a doubt as to their moral goodness. People raised in secular belief systems with no inkling of doubt. Consider the alien moralities of ancient and New World cultures. The Iliad!


4f0a55 No.543690

>Can't God just prove Himself to everyone without any ambiguities?

I refer you to matthew 4:6-7

>And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

>Jesus said unto him, It is written again, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Do not test God by asking him to prove Himself to you. That is what tempting is, that is what the devil did to Jesus by asking Him to throw Himself from a cliff as reproof/proving/tempting.

>What's the point of having faith?

Hebrews 11:1

>NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith is the evidence of things not seen. which makes no sense but see 1 corinthians 1:20

/thread


a216d3 No.543740

>>543690

And where did you get the impetus to believe the Bible originally, anon?


826ba9 No.543783

>>543542

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if, he, say, appeared in person to a tribe of slaves, used miraculous means to free them from slavery, then led them across the desert as a pillar of cloud/fire? I mean, there's no way anybody would doubt Him then to the point of just making up a new god and making an idol to it on the spot because it had been more than 5 minutes since the last miracle. If that didn't work, He could miraculously provide food for them every day. Such a sure sign of power would lead to none of them ever doubting Him again, right?

Oh, and if that didn't work, the ultimate intervention would be for Him to come down to Earth in person, demonstrate His divine power, and pass along His teachings directly to humanity. With such an obvious string of signs directly from God, Himself, I don't see any way this could end with anything other than everybody bowing down and calling Him 'Lord.'


a216d3 No.543786

>>543783

>uses stories which depend on God's existence being taken for granted to prove OP wrong

You may use them to moralise, if you wish, but it seems kind of futile.


d6a865 No.544791

>>543542

I think this video by InspiringPhilosophy will help you out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBu_Jw61UZE




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