/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Why did he do this?

>>541956

little back story he was a catholic and I also consider myself a catholic he left due to what I assume to be peer pressure from anti christian natsocs and the works of Rosenberg (the bitch) savitri devi and some cath priest that left the church and became an ss officer anton something something

>>541954

Nazism is doa. They're goobers and they're going nowhere. You need to help him see this. The world needs to be changed (or restored), but nazism/facism whatever you want to call it isn't going to work. It didn't work the first time, and even if that were just a fluke the brand is dead.

I think people turn to these insane fringe groups because they've lost meaningful connections to who they are. Try reintroducing him back to his real culture, his friends, his local area. Idiots larping online can't scratch the itch for community as well as the real deal can.

It might take a while, and you'll have to be smart about it so he doesn't just go all culty on you and drop all contact, but you can do it anon.

Calmly explain that Madam Blavatsky, the founder of Theosophy, was a subhuman Slav, and that Hinduism is the only living, surviving form of the Aryan religion and is not a proper religion for white people. Follow that up by telling him that in the closing days of the war that Hitler cursed the German people as deserving of extermination for losing the war and said that the soldiers dying in the streets of Berlin to protect him were like dogs.

>>542047

This.

>catholic

>national socialist

ok

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe

>>542118

Yet he had no problem promoting some neo-pagan religion.

>>541954

>Long story short I am a far right catholic (technically a national socialist

Post disregarded , sorry. I don't think you know what being Catholic actually means

>>542118

>>542118

Also there's a lot of dodgy theology coming out of Hitler's mouth in your sources

> Providence shows no mercy to weak nations, but recognizes the right of existence-only of sound and strong nations

Muh might makes right isn't Christian.

> We have faith that one day Heaven will bring the Germans back into a Reich over which there shall be no Soviet star, no Jewish star of David, but above that Reich there shall be the symbol of German labor – the Swastika. And that will mean that the first of May has truly come.

Idolatry of a pagan symbol

> I believe that Providence would never have allowed us to see the victory of the Movement if it had the intention after all to destroy us at the end

Hmmm, since "Providence" didn't allow Nazi Germany to win WW2, I suppose this means that they really weren't favored at all.

> oreover, a policy of laissez faire in this sphere is not only cruelty to the individual guiltless victims but also to the nation as a whole…. If the Churches were to declare themselves ready to take over the treatment and care of those suffering from hereditary diseases, we should be quite ready to refrain from sterilizing them

Ah Hitler, ever the compassionate, pro-life Christian. Of course he went well beyond sterilizing the disabled.

> So far as the Evangelical Confessions are concerned we are determined to put an end to existing divisions, which are concerned only with the forms of organization, and to create a single Evangelical Church for the whole Reich….And we know that were the great German reformer [Martin Luther] with us to-day he would rejoice to be freed from the necessity of his own time and, like Ulrich von Hutten, his last prayer would be not for the Churches of the separate States: it would be of Germany that he would think and of the Evangelical Church of Germany

I highly doubt Luther would have wanted to share a Church with Baptists, nor would he have wanted to be buddy-buddy with Catholics.

> Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church

What a good Catholic Hitler was!

> This is probably the first time and this is the first country in which people are being taught to realize that, of all the tasks which we have to face, the noblest and most sacred for mankind is that each racial species must preserve the purity of the blood which God has given it

If keeping our racial blood pure was literally the most important thing Christians had to do, it would be obvious both in the Bible and in the teaching of the Church. As it stands most of the teaching against interracial marriage in the Bible seems based on the times when Israel was being corrupted by foreign beliefs. Rather than anything to do with racial dilution. Moses was certainly allowed to have an Ethiopian wife.

> Only He can relieve me of this duty Who called me to it. It was in the hand of Providence to snuff me out by the bomb that exploded only one and a half meters from me on July 20, and thus to terminate my life’s work. That the Almighty protected me on that day I consider a renewed affirmation of the task entrusted to me

Hitler said these lies and then killed himself a few months later.

Hot take: preserving “racial purity”

is a virtue only inasmuch as it deters the sin that results from rainbow-flag-melting-pot-ism and, like all other virtues, is disastrous as an end in of itself

>>541954

As a former Fascist, I can tell you this: real Fascism has very little to do with Nazism and the veneration of Hitler. Mussolini had never believed in ethnic superiority, more in cultural one; he also claimed there would have been space in Italy for foreigners after the Italians were well settled and these newcomers from outside were willing to fully integrate into Italian society. He also refused racism and veneration of his figure, as he lamented that people were listening blindly to him.

Mussolini also converted at the end of his life and Saint Pio from Petralcina told his wife he entered Heaven after many years in Purgatory (he also ensured her that both Hitler and Stalin where in Hell).

Tell your friend to stop being a larper and embrace God.

Just focus on christianity and try to keep fascism as a lesser focus

>>542106

Also relevant:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Stein

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Poland

>>542249

hey man I just want death camps for queers

>>542254

Its just telling about what different people did(ghengis khan, Akhnaton, Hitler) and adding some pagan bullshit commentary here and there

>>542269

who knew that is all that thot could come up with

>>541954

>increasing anti christian sentiment

That's literally /leftypol/ with their divide and conquer tactics. All of those "sand jew religion" posters are trolls. Ignore.

>>541954

Makes me wonder what kind of ideas your friend was introduced to after seeing how deranged he ended up.

If he was familiarized with German inter-war history and the enemies of National Socialism he would realize that if it was up to Hitler he would be either purged along with the commies or rejected like the neo-pagans of his time.

>>541958

Is your friend aware that he's worshiping someone who called Rosenberg's book "unreadable" and "weird", rejected paganism, backed and favored Christianity with his speeches and his actions, and at the same time he goes on to join a cult that openly ridicules what that same man fought for?

Sounds like he's consuming a bit too much kosher propaganda on the subject. Like most of the shabbos goyim itt.

I'd recommend you take it slow and make sure to avoid any hostile reaction that could end your communication with him. If he's gone too far with his larping, my guess is he's developed a distaste for anything non "european" like Varg Vikernes, and he'll tend to dismiss any pro-Christian piece of information/argument you might share. Try to be subtle, don't go full crusader on him, and make him doubt.

Also, his social circles/friendships. If it's true that he caved in due to peer pressure, one of the best things you could do is to convince him to stop interacting with these people. Otherwise he'll be in constant exposure to subversive propaganda and make your job almost impossible.

Other than that, make sure you are in good shape (physically, mentally, and spiritually), lead your friend by example, and don't forget your daily prayers for him.

>>542114

>German National Socialism is jewish

>but Christianity isn't

?

>>542450

if you could provide links about hitler hating rosenbergs book I would be indebt to you

I have already begun to attack the character of some of the anti christian people that have influenced him so it will take time there

>>542450

This is a complete lie, Hitler was a terrible sinner who hated Christianity.

>>543005

>Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Goebbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, he said. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide. "The church is certainly necessary for the people. It is a strong conservative element," he might say at one time or another in this private circle… "Through me the Evangelical [Protestant] Church could become the established church, as in England." Even after 1942 Hitler went on maintaining that he regarded the church as indispensable in political life. But he sharply condemned the campaign against the church, calling it a crime against the future of the nation. For it was impossible, he said, to replace the church by any "party ideology." ”Undoubtedly,” he continued, “the church would learn to adapt the political goals of National Socialism in the long run, as it had always adapted in the course of history.” A new party religion would only bring about a relapse into the mysticism of the Middle Ages. The growing SS myth showed that clearly enough, as did Rosenberg's unreadable Myth of the Twentieth Century.

Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, p. 95

https://archive.org/details/Inside_the_Third_Reich_Albert_Speer

>>543015

He was your average sinner who disliked modern Christianity and communist infiltration of the Church.

>>543099

>He was your average sinner who disliked modern Christianity and communist infiltration of the Church.

The Nazi Regime outlawed printing the Bible in Germany, replaced the Cross or Crucifix in German churches with a Swastika, replaced the Bible with Mein Kampf, and killed thousands of priests. But you will somehow lie and claim that they are "christian". Fat chance!

>>543158

Yes I have, and I really respect Kaiser Wilhelm II, he was actually principled and a good Christian. When he died in exile in the Netherlands, he even refused to have his body moved to Germany until monarchy was restored, so he remains there even today. He was a true example of a Christian statesman.

>>543161

He even had good banter as well. He congratulated Hitler on his victories early in the war by saying he was using HIS soldiers. I think Wilhelm II is a Lutheran even Catholics can respect if a bit to lenient on Islam

>>543158

Many of the "Christians" here put their exceedingly un-Christian ideologies above God. Christians have always overwhelmingly opposed Nazism.

>>543099

>He was your average sinner who disliked modern Christianity and communist infiltration of the Church.

"Your average sinner" doesn't have >100 beatified and canonised martyrs in their body count.

>>543181

>"Your average sinner" doesn't have >100 beatified and canonised martyrs in their body count.

True, that's why I called him one.

>>543129

Back up your claims with primary and secondary sources.

>But you will somehow lie and claim that they are "christian". Fat chance!

Refute the evidence that shows Hitler supporting Christianity and condemning paganism. Some of Speer's claims were refuted before, so you might have a chance.

The only way you can deny Hitler being Christian is by ignoring the communist infiltration plan that Gramsci and Lukacs came up with after WW1 (which was successfully executed), blindly accepting the lie of the holohoax, and condoning the heresies of modern Christianity.

Otherwise you'd see how weak many claims itt are and how compromised the Church is. Just as our Our Lady of Fátima foretold.

And in the same way OP's friend was misguided towards esoteric Hitlerism by lies about the Third Reich and WW2, many Christians today are misguided towards supporting talmudism/satanism.

>>543218

“Each one of us to-day may regret the fact that the advent of Christianity was the first occasion on which spiritual terror was introduced into the much freer ancient world” Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

Thanks based Dimond for alerting me to this quote. Hitler was clearly not a Christian, I don’t know how much clearer it could be.

>>543218

>Christians who defend Hitler make our church look bad to the atheists and others.

I don't think we should care how the Church looks to heretics and heathens.

>Hitler was a pagan heretic

Anything to back that claim and refute what I already posted?

>and it's time to go back to /pol/ where you belong.

How about you stop telling others what to do and post something useful and relevant to OP's predicament.

>I have a document, yeah it's from most meme monastery, but it completely refutes Hitler. You should read it.

Very interesting piece of information. And hilarious in some parts (point 8).

I'll finish reading it tomorrow if I can and post whatever content I consider appropriate.

>>543232

I'm cautious as to the message he's trying to convey with that sentence, as the connotation the document is trying to represent contradicts many other passages in Mein Kampf.

>>543218

>Christians who defend Hitler make our church look bad to the atheists and others.

and we should care about them why?

>>543261

Because the contrary option is unnecessarily and needlessly scandalous.

>>543218

Alright, I'll try to address some of the points from that document for now.

First, it should be noted that there are good reasons to believe that the Murphy translation of Mein Kampf (which vaticancatholic uses) isn't reliable.

That translation was an unauthorized and incomplete work done by James Murphy and published by Hurst & Blackett which contained translated parts done by a known soviet agent (Greta Lorke).

I'll use the Stalag version as a reference instead.

>>543656

>Hitler said Christianity introduced “spiritual terror” into the world

Hardly. He said that along the arrival of Christianity, came spiritual terror.

>The same holds true of religions. Christianity was, not content with erecting an altar of its own. It had first to destroy the pagan altars. It was only by virtue of this passionate intolerance that an apodictic faith could grow up, and intolerance is an indispensable condition for the growth of such a faith. It may be objected here that in these phenomena which we find throughout the history of the world we have to recognise mostly a specifically Jewish mode of thought and that such fanaticism and intolerance are typical symptoms of the Jewish mentality. This may be true a thousand times over and we may regret that it is so and note with a feeling of uneasiness that this phenomenon has hitherto been unknown in the history of mankind—but the hard fact remains that such is the situation to-day. It is not the business of the men who wish to liberate our German nation from the conditions is in which it now exists to burden their brains with thinking how excellent it would be if this or that had never occurred. They must strive to find ways and means of abolishing what actually exists. A philosophy of life which is inspired by a fanatical spirit of intolerance can only be set aside by a doctrine that is advanced in an equally ardent spirit and fought for with as determined a will and which is itself a new idea, pure and absolutely sincere. Each one of us today may regret the fact that the advent of Christianity was the first occasion on which spiritual terror was introduced into the much freer ancient world, but the fact cannot be denied that ever since then, the world has been pervaded and dominated by this kind of coercion and that violence is broken only by violence and terrorism by terrorism. Only then can a new regime be created by means of constructive work. Political parties are prone to make compromises, but a Weltanschauung never does this. A political party even reckons with opponents, but a Weltanschauung proclaims its own infallibility.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p512-513.

He's either talking about the rise of Christian persecution at the hands of the jews, and/or what he called "passionate intolerance". That he believed was necessary to accomplish any movement's goals.

This interpretation receives further support when he says "each one of us today may regret". If his book was directed towards a German-reading audience, which was majority Christian, how could he possibly expect for that same audience to accept this statement as interpreted by vaticancatholic?

With this and other citations from the same source and his speeches/actions in mind, vaticancatholic doesn't make any sense:

>The Jew himself is the best example of the kind of product which this religious training evolves. His life is of this world only and his mentality is as foreign to the true spirit of Christianity, as his character was foreign to the great Founder of the new creed two thousand years ago. The Founder of Christianity made no secret of His estimation of the Jewish people; when He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God, because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. At that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews, whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics, and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p342.

>The greatness of Christianity did not arise from attempts to make compromises with those philosophical opinions of the ancient world which had some resemblance to its own doctrine, but in the unrelenting and fanatical proclamation and defence of its own teaching.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p394.

>The raising of the ultramontane question and the resulting quarrels between Catholic and Protestant presented, under the conditions then prevailing, the only possibility of diverting public attention to other matters and staving off a concentrated attack upon the Jews. The men who dragged our people into this controversy can never make amends for the crime they then committed against the nation. Anyhow, the Jew has attained his ends. Catholics and Protestants are fighting one another to their heart’s content, while the enemy of Aryan humanity and of all Christendom is laughing up his sleeve.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p632.

And many others from the same source which I'll refrain from posting.

>>543660

>Hitler had enormous praise for Frederick the “Great”

>Because he was a freemason

Not even close. He saw freemasonry as a jewish subversive tool:

>Finally, the Jew gained an increasing influence in all economic undertakings by means of his predominance on the Stock Exchange. He secured, if not the ownership, at least the control of the working capacity of the nation. In order to strengthen his political position, he directed his efforts towards removing the barrier of racial and civic discrimination which had hitherto hindered his advance at every turn. With characteristic tenacity he championed the cause of religious tolerance for this purpose, and in the Freemason organisation, which had fallen completely into his hands, he found a magnificent weapon which helped him to achieve his ends.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p351.

>The Jew realised that in his efforts to reach the position of public despot he would need a ‘pacemaker,’ and he thought he could find a pace-maker if he could whip-in sufficiently large sections of the bourgeoisie, but the Freemasons failed to catch the glove-manufacturers and the linen-weavers in the frail meshes of their net, and so it became necessary to find a grosser and withal a more effective means. Thus another weapon beside that of freemasonry had to be secured. This was the press. The Jew exercised all his skill and tenacity in getting hold of it.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p352.

>The propaganda which the Freemasons had carried on among the socalled intelligentsia, whereby their pacifist teaching paralysed the instinct for national self-preservation, was now extended to the broad masses of the

workers and the bourgeoisie by means of the press, which was almost everywhere in Jewish hands.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p358.

>While the international Jew is slowly but surely strangling us, our socalled patriots vociferate against a man and his system which have had the courage to liberate themselves from the shackles of Jewish freemasonry, at least in one quarter of the globe, and to set the forces of national resistance against the international world poison.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p527.

>The fight which Fascist Italy waged against Jewry’s three principal weapons, even if it be to a great extent subconscious (though I do not believe this myself), furnishes the best proof that the poison-fangs of that power which transcends all State boundaries are being drawn, even though in an indirect way. The prohibition of freemasonry and secret societies, the suppression of the international press and the definite abolition of Marxism, together with the steadily increasing consolidation of the Fascist concept of the State—all this will enable the Italian Government, in the course of years, to advance more and more the interests of the Italian people without paying any attention to the hissing of the Jewish world-hydra.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p717.

>>543661

>Hitler praised Martin Luther as Frederick the “Great's” equal

The greater the work which a man does for the future, the less will he be appreciated by his contemporaries. His struggle will accordingly be the more severe, and his success the rarer. When, in the course of centuries, such a man appears and is blessed with success, then, towards the end of his days, he may have a faint prevision of his future fame. Such great men are only the Marathon runners of history; the laurels of contemporary fame are only for the brow of the dying hero. The great protagonists are those who fight for their ideas and ideals despite the fact that they receive no recognition at the hands of their contemporaries. They are the men whose memories will be enshrined in the hearts of future generations. It seems then as if each individual felt it his duty to make retrospective atonement for the wrong which great men have suffered at the hands of their contemporaries. Their lives and their work are then studied with touching and grateful admiration. Especially in dark days of distress, such men have the power of healing broken hearts and of raising the despairing spirit of a people. To this group belong not only the genuinely great statesmen but all the great reformers as well. Besides Frederick the Great we have men such as Martin Luther and Richard Wagner.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p236-237.

I don't understand the point vaticancatholic is trying to make.

Hitler is recognizing the charismatic and influential traits those men had. How is that untrue or heretical?

>>543662

>Hitler said Bismarck's work “must now be carried on”

>As in to continue the Kulturkampf

This is getting silly.

>My own attitude towards the conflict was equally simple and clear. I believed that it was not a case of Austria fighting to get satisfaction from Serbia, but rather a case of Germany fighting for her own existence the German nation for its own ‘to be’ or ‘not to be,’ for its freedom and for its future. The work of Bismarck must now be carried on. Young Germany must show herself worthy of the blood shed by our fathers on so many heroic fields of battle, from Weissenburg to Sedan and Paris, and if this struggle should bring us victory, our people would again rank foremost among the great nations.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p182.

Up to that point in that chapter, it reads about the first world war (a conventional/military war) and how he perceived the events that lead to it, together with what he believed was at stake: Germany's political integrity (Bismarck's greatest achievement).

He even discards any notion of a "cultural war" interpretation when he mentions the battles of Weissenburg, Sedan, and Paris.

Hitler was eager to fight in the battlefield for a unified Germany and its future.

>>543666

>Hitler heaped praise on Bismarck's Reich

>It is an unparalleled act of hypocrisy to complain to the electorate (for it is only to the electorate that our contemporary parties address their propaganda) of the loss suffered by the individual states in being deprived of certain of their sovereign powers, while, at the same time, these selfsame parties vied with each other in pursuing a policy of favouring the fulfilment of the Versailles obligations—a policy of which the final outcome will be a profound alteration in the internal structure of the Reich. Bismarck’s Reich was free and unhampered by any obligations towards the outside world. Bismarck’s Reich never had to shoulder such heavy and entirely unproductive obligations as those imposed on Germany under the Dawes Plan.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p640.

He is expressing anger towards German submission to foreign interests after WW1 and the treaty of Versailles.

Vaticancatholic makes it sound like he was praising Bismarck's intentions to deny any Roman influence in Germany.

>The constitution of the old Reich took all this into account, at least to a certain degree, in so far as the individual states were not accorded equal representation in the Federal Council, but a representation proportionate to their respective areas, their actual importance and the role which they played in the formation of the Reich. Only in very few cases can it be asserted that the sovereign rights which the individual states renounced in order to render possible the foundation of the Reich were ceded voluntarily, since, for the most part, they did not exist in reality. In other instances they were simply done away with under the pressure exerted by the more powerful Prussia. The principle followed by Bismarck was not, to give to the Reich what he could take from the individual states, but to demand from the individual states only what was absolutely necessary for the Reich. A moderate and wise policy! On the one, hand, Bismarck showed the greatest regard for customs and traditions; on the other hand his policy secured for the new Reich, from its foundation onwards, a great measure of love and willing co-operation.

Again, it's all about politics and State affairs, not culture or religion.

>>543667

>Hitler said Bismarck's work failed because it lacked a “new Weltanschauung,” meaning a new spiritual world view, i.e. a new religion

False. In the same chapter he makes sure to leave no doubts about this and all other claims about kulturkampf:

>Political parties have no right to meddle in religious questions except when these relate to something that is alien to the nation and thus calculated to undermine racial customs and morals. In the same way, religion must not be mixed up with party politics. If some ecclesiastical dignitaries should misuse religious institutions or religious teachings to injure their own ration, their opponents ought never to take the same road and fight them with the same weapons. To a political leader, the religious teachings and institutions of his people should be sacred and inviolable; otherwise, he should not be a statesman, but a reformer, if he has the necessary qualities for such a mission. Any other line of conduct will lead to disaster, especially in Germany. In studying the Pan-German movement and its conflict with Rome I was firmly persuaded, then and especially in later years, that by their failure to understand the importance of the social problem, the Pan-Germanists lost the support of the broad masses, who are the indispensable combatants in such a movement.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p131-132.

>>543672

>The Nazi Party's 25 point program demanded “freedom of religion for all religious denominations”, i.e. the heresy of religious liberty, and advocated “positive Christianity”

This one I can accept up to a certain point.

I'm absolutely disgusted by the idea of "religious freedom", but the geo-political context and the ideological struggles of the times, in my opinion, justified Hitler's adoption of a "neutral" stance to avoid fractures and internal conflicts that would weaken Germany while facing an even bigger problem/threat: international jewry.

This I believe is the strongest case this document has to support his excommunication. But then again, when you consider the whole picture, his choices make sense.

>Hitler called this “new faith” a “political faith”

Already addressed this in my previous post.

>>543676

>Hitler was totally indifferent to the Catholic Church. He only cared about the Aryan race

How do you explain things like the Reichskonkordat and the fact that it was never broken?

How about his efforts to unite the Catholic and Protestant Churches?

And all the other references from Mein Kampf, Speer's memoirs, speeches, etc?

Vaticancatholic goes on to ignore the cultural and ethnic issues that Hitler is identifying as a great danger to German identity and sense of belonging (cohesiveness) that goes by ignored by the two major denominations of that time that prefer to focus on fighting each other instead of focusing in the well-being of the Nation.

>Think further of how the process of racial degeneration is debasing and in some cases even destroying the fundamental Aryan qualities of our German people, so that our cultural creative ability as a nation is gradually decreasing and we are running the danger, at least in our great cities, of sinking to the level on which Southern Italy is to-day. This pestilential adulteration of the blood, of which hundreds of thousands of our people take no account, is being systematically practised by the Jew to-day. Systematically these Swarthy parasites within our national body corrupt our innocent fair-haired girls and thus destroy something which can never be replaced in this world. The two Christian denominations look on with indifference at the profanation and destruction of a noble and unique creature who was given to the world as a gift of God’s grace. As regards the future of the world, it does not matter which of the two triumphs, the Catholic or the Protestant faith, but it does matter whether Aryan humanity survives or perishes. Yet the two Christian denominations are not contending against the destroyer of Aryan humanity, but are trying to destroy one another. It is the sacred duty, particularly of those who adopt a patriotic attitude, to see to it that within the framework of their own particular denomination, they do not render mere lip-service to God, but actually fulfil the Will of God and do not allow His handiwork to be debarred, for it was by the Will of God that man was created in a certain image and endowed with certain characteristics and certain faculties. Whoever destroys His work, wages war against God’s creation and God’s will. Therefore, everyone should endeavour, each in his own denomination, of course, and should consider it as his first and most solemn duty, to hinder any and every one whose conduct tends, either by word or deed, to overstep the limits of his own religious community and to raise a quarrel with those of another denomination. For, in view of the religious schism that exists in Germany, to attack the essential characteristics of one denomination must necessarily lead to a war of extermination between the two Christian denominations.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p632-633.

>>543679

>To summarize, Hitler means:

>1) That it only matters whether the Aryan humanity survives. He couldn't care less about whether Protestantism “triumphs” over the Catholic Church or not.

I'll repeat what I already said before: if any one of those denominations of that time would've taken responsibility towards the issues Hitler was drawing attention to, he wouldn't have been so disillusioned with both to the point of desperately trying to find a common ground so that they would just stop neglecting the bigger problem: multiculturalism/cultural marxism and jewish subversion.

The "Aryan humanity" he talks about and the Church are not mutually exclusive.

>2) That everyone should avoid religious quarrels, meaning no one should evangelize since that might cause a quarrel.

Again, he was talking about priorities.

>3) That to criticize (“attack”) Protestantism would lead to a “war of extermination,” meaning no one should criticize Protestantism.

Disingenuous.

>4) That a “spirit of… tolerance” towards Protestantism would be great, and a “conciliating factor in the sphere of religion.”

Already explained why it's out of context.

>5) That those who “embroil the patriotic movement in religious quarrels,” meaning those who put religion above race, are “worse enemies… than the international communists.”

When put into context it makes sense. Those fights at that time were functional to communists/jews. It was a textbook divide and conquer strategy.

>when it seems unjust to them, will at once be indignantly rejected and opposed on a priori grounds if it should come from the militant leaders of another denomination. This is so true that even men who might be ready and willing to fight for the removal of manifest grievances within their own religious denomination will drop their own fight and turn their activities against the outsider, the moment the abolition of such grievances is counselled or demanded by one who is not of the same faith. They consider it unjustifiable, inadmissible and incorrect for outsiders to meddle in matters which do not concern them. Such attempts are not excusable

even when they are inspired by a feeling for the supreme interests of the national community, because even in our day religious sentiment still has deeper roots than all feeling for political and national expediency.

This cannot be changed by setting one denomination against another in bitter conflict. It can be changed only if, through a spirit of mutual tolerance, the nation can be assured of a future, the greatness of which will gradually operate as a conciliating factor in the sphere of religion also. I have no hesitation in saying with regard to those men who to-day seek to embroil the völkisch movement in religious quarrels, that they are worse enemies of my country than any internationally-minded Communist. The National Socialist Movement has set itself the task of converting those Communists, but anyone who goes outside the ranks of his own movement and tends to divert it from the fulfilment of its mission, is acting in a manner that deserves the severest condemnation. He is acting as a champion of Jewish interests, whether consciously or unconsciously does not matter, for it is to the interest of the Jews to-day that the energies of the völkisch movement should be frittered away in a religious conflict, because it is beginning to be dangerous for the Jews. I have purposely used the phrase about ‘frittering away’ the energies of the movement, because no one but he who is entirely ignorant of history could imagine that this movement can to-day solve a question which the greatest statesmen have tried for centuries to solve, and tried in vain.

>>543683

Let me fix that last greentext:

>What may be tolerated by the faithful belonging to one denomination even when it seems unjust to them, will at once be indignantly rejected and opposed on a priori grounds if it should come from the militant leaders of another denomination. This is so true that even men who might be ready and willing to fight for the removal of manifest grievances within their own religious denomination will drop their own fight and turn their activities against the outsider, the moment the abolition of such grievances is counselled or demanded by one who is not of the same faith. They consider it unjustifiable, inadmissible and incorrect for outsiders to meddle in matters which do not concern them. Such attempts are not excusable even when they are inspired by a feeling for the supreme interests of the national community, because even in our day religious sentiment still has deeper roots than all feeling for political and national expediency. This cannot be changed by setting one denomination against another in bitter conflict. It can be changed only if, through a spirit of mutual tolerance, the nation can be assured of a future, the greatness of which will gradually operate as a conciliating factor in the sphere of religion also. I have no hesitation in saying with regard to those men who to-day seek to embroil the völkisch movement in religious quarrels, that they are worse enemies of my country than any internationally-minded Communist. The National Socialist Movement has set itself the task of converting those Communists, but anyone who goes outside the ranks of his own movement and tends to divert it from the fulfilment of its mission, is acting in a manner that deserves the severest condemnation. He is acting as a champion of Jewish interests, whether consciously or unconsciously does not matter, for it is to the interest of the Jews to-day that the energies of the völkisch movement should be frittered away in a religious conflict, because it is beginning to be dangerous for the Jews. I have purposely used the phrase about ‘frittering away’ the energies of the movement, because no one but he who is entirely ignorant of history could imagine that this movement can to-day solve a question which the greatest statesmen have tried for centuries to solve, and tried in vain.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p634-635.

>>543684

And I'll leave it at that for now.

I see vaticancatholic is referencing the tabletalks further down in that document, which makes me believe he's scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

But hopefully what I already posted can be of use to OP.

I'll see if I can post anything tomorrow or the day after.

>>542148

I disagree, although I am not a natsoc like OP. Keeping racial purity may serve a far greater purpose, as multicultural societies inevitably attempt an assault on heaven itself. I suspect that this is the true lesson behind Tower of Babel. It is no coincidence that Time magazine started in with the "God is Dead" headlines not even a year after the Hart-Celler Act.

>>542171

>Mussolini also converted at the end of his life and Saint Pio from Petralcina told his wife he entered Heaven after many years in Purgatory (he also ensured her that both Hitler and Stalin where in Hell).

Source please. Genuinely interested

>>544171

>I think this quote highlight's the divide between his ethos and Christ's

That quote and/or interpretation contradicts other sources. Some of which I already posted.

And that same quote can be an example of his disillusion with modern Christianity and what we know as "nice doctrine", especially when put in contrast with islam. Otherwise he wouldn't be calling it submissive and ineffective after what he wrote in Mein Kampf:

>The same holds true of religions. Christianity was, not content with erecting an altar of its own. It had first to destroy the pagan altars. It was only by virtue of this passionate intolerance that an apodictic faith could grow up, and intolerance is an indispensable condition for the growth of such a faith.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p512

>The greatness of Christianity did not arise from attempts to make compromises with those philosophical opinions of the ancient world which had some resemblance to its own doctrine, but in the unrelenting and fanatical proclamation and defence of its own teaching.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p394.

>The Founder of Christianity made no secret of His estimation of the Jewish people; when He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God, because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. At that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews, whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics, and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p632.

And I don't think it's necessary to expand on the fact that Christianity in modern times is but a shadow of its former self.

>>543685

Continuing.

>Hitler was so racist (racism is a mortal sin) that he believed Original Sin was interracial breeding

It's almost despairing to see a self proclaimed Catholic recognizing a communist-made term and subversive strategy as "mortal sin" if not accepted.

Lev Bronstein (a.k.a. Leon Trotsky) coined the term, not the word, in 1930 when he first referenced it in "The History of the Russian Revolution".

The purpose of that term has always been to weaken and destroy a people's self preservation instincts, identity, and sense of belonging. All in order to facilitate internationalism/multiculturalism.

With this, one can easily become aware of what I mentioned before about Christians being misguided towards supporting satanism while trying to rationalize lies about Hitler and the Third Reich.

Without this notion of "racism is a mortal sin" and the denial of racial differences, I don't see much value in what vaticancatholic pints out. And the same applies to some of his following points.

>>544734

>Hitler was an evolutionist

>All these features just mentioned could not guarantee us a lasting existence and certainly would be no warranty of greatness. A nation that could content itself with external reforms, would not have the slightest chance of success in the general struggle for life among the nations of the world. A movement that confined its mission to such adjustments, however right and equitable, would effect no far-reaching or profound reform of the existing order. The whole effect of such measures would be limited to externals. They would not furnish the nation with that moral armament which alone will enable it effectively to overcome the weaknesses from which we are suffering to-day. In order to elucidate this point of view it may be worth while to glance once again at the real origins and causes of the cultural evolution of mankind. The first step which visibly raised mankind above the animal world was that which led to the first invention…

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p499-500.

When put into context, and noticing that "cultural evolution" part, which vaticancatholic omitted, any chance for an "evolutionist" interpretation is denied.

>>544740

>Hitler believed in false gods and goddesses, as would a pagan

In none of the instances where he mentions "gods" (uncapitalized every time) one can perceive religious connotations.

>The execution of history’s decree was carried out in thousands of ways. The fact that great numbers of people went about blindfolded amid the manifest signs of dissolution only proved that the gods had decreed the destruction of Austria.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p89.

Replace "gods" with "destiny" and then add what I explain in the next example if you want.

>While the ability of the politician consists in mastering the art of the possible, the founder of a political system belongs to those who are said to please the gods only because they wish for and demand the impossible. They will always have to renounce contemporary fame, but if their ideas be immortal, posterity will acclaim them.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p236.

Here the expression encompasses everything a statesman has to handle while in power. Be it public opinion, the media, clergy, investors, etc. You can call these "gods" you have to please.

>Among the broken arches and vast spaces that are covered with ruins from the ancient world the colossal monuments which still arouse our wonder have not been left to us from the commercial palaces of those days but from the temples of the gods and the public edifices that belonged to the State.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p293.

I don't think this one needs an explanation.

>“We do not turn to you, however, for help, but to the great army of those who are too poor to consider their personal existence as the highest good on earth. They do not place their trust in money, but in other gods, into whose hands they confide their lives.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p455.

>It may be that money has become the one power that governs life to-day, yet a time will come when men will again bow to higher gods.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p488.

Replace "gods" with "values" in both instances.

>>544747

I think that's enough from me.

As far as I can see, this document just doesn't hold to scrutiny.

I could go on about the tabletalks and how they're not a trustworthy source, but it has already been discussed to no end so I'll just post an excerpt from an article that takes care of the issue and a link to it:

>"The German text, which the French and English editions are said to be based upon, was, for reasons that are unclear, not published until 1980. It was given the title Monologe im Führerhauptquartier… This edition does not contain Picker’s notes either due to a struggle over intellectual property rights. It does not help that both Heim’s and Picker’s original manuscripts seem to have been lost."

Source: https://codoh.com/library/document/4880

>>543660

Hitler’s pretty obviously saying that Christianity was Jewish and intolerant of the pagan faiths, and that while it would be nice if Christianity had never existed, they would have to deal with conditions such as they were. I’m not at all surprised that some Germans of the time might have willfully misunderstood the passage, because you’re doing it right now. You’re also rejecting your own Church’s condemnation of National Socialism.

>>543679

> As regards the future of the world, it does not matter which of the two triumphs, the Catholic or the Protestant faith, but it does matter whether Aryan humanity survives or perishes.

This hints pretty strongly that Hitler doesn’t believe in Christianity in the slightest. He doesn’t care which group of Christians are spreading truth and which ones are spreading heresy, because for him it’s all a bunch of nonsense.

>>542450

>Is your friend aware that he's worshiping someone who called Rosenberg's book "unreadable" and "weird", rejected paganism, backed and favored Christianity with his speeches and his actions

Hitlers stance on Christianity is a bit ambiguous, but he didn't back it at all. He was the typical secular tyrant who respects and protects the Church as long as it doesn't stand in his way. The man imprisoned and killed thousands of clergymen, and both Popes at the time condemned him. Two of his major influences, the Czech National Socialists and the Italian Fascists, were in turn influenced by Hussitism. You can't have a secular, totalitarian state and be a good Christian. Pick one.

I made this mistake, just posted a thread about it because I didn't see this thread though…

I lost my job over this and the sad thing is I probably deserved it and brought it on myself.

I realise that Jordan Peterson is right when he says we should reject both destructive ideologies from the twentiuth century.

>>544938

It's hard to deny that current globalist world order is a neo-Babylon that worships itself and views people in a mere utilitarian way, as completely interchangeable "consumers" and not something created in God's image.

And that is a lot closer to what Communists preached than to Hitler's haphazard ideology.

>>544794

>Hitler’s pretty obviously saying that Christianity was Jewish

Read the whole post. This is the first excerpt from Mein Kampf I gave to refute just that:

>The Jew himself is the best example of the kind of product which this religious training evolves. His life is of this world only and his mentality is as foreign to the true spirit of Christianity, as his character was foreign to the great Founder of the new creed two thousand years ago.

- Mein Kampf (Stalag translation). p342.

>…and that while it would be nice if Christianity had never existed, they would have to deal with conditions such as they were

Up to that point in chapter 5, he mentions the need for a strategy to "wipe out the Jewish State" in order to be able to build a volkisch one. And then explains this can only be achieved through an occurrence he calls "passionate intolerance", which he identifies as a "jewish mode of thought" and believes is the only thing that can be effective against them: "violence is broken only by violence and terrorism by terrorism".

So when put into context, and while noticing he's talking about using their own methods against them, understanding that this "spiritual terror" was first employed by jews against Christianity when it emerged (and thus referencing jewish persecution of Christians) is the only logical interpretation.

>>544801

>This hints pretty strongly that Hitler doesn’t believe in Christianity in the slightest

At most, it is evidence of his disappointment with modern Christianity and how it ignores rampant subversion while focusing on infighting.

>He doesn’t care which group of Christians are spreading truth and which ones are spreading heresy.

You're making the same mistake as vaticancatholic.

He was trying to direct people's attention from divisive/fracture points within German society towards what he considered an immediate and deadly threat: international jewry.

Regardless of which denomination he supported, Germany would have lost to communism and internationalism. Any effort made towards supporting one denomination or the other would've further strained internal divisions and overall weakened the Nation in a critical point in history.

The only way your and vaticancatholic's logic could work, is by ignoring the geopolitical context Germany had to face at that time.

I can't believe the lengths to which some folks will go to prove Hitler was Christian or defended the Christian faith. The man was a mass-murdering psychopath. Who cares what religion he was?

>>542114

>Explain to him that Hitlerism is inherently jewish

this

>>545286

All the Hitler-speeches mean zilch as they don't reflect his true feelings but are only propaganda:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#Hitler.27s_Table_Talk

>>545286

>>545292

Indeed, trusting literally any politician's public speeches is foolish but you have to be particularly retarded to take stock in the words of a power-hungry dictator supported by a master of propaganda. The fact that Hitler didn't so much as demote Rosenberg or any other LARPagans demonstrates his real level of commitment to keeping Nazism Christian. But even if you hold Positive Christianity to be his sincere faith, we are talking about an interpretation of Christianity so heretical that it makes Mormonism look Orthodox. If anything proves Hitler held his detestable ideology to be above any God-given morals, it's the fact that he tried to reshape Christianity in its image.

Does anyone have that video that shows a Talmud verse that shows the Jews fear Christianity more than Paganism? I think it's a clip from a documentary from the 60's.

>>545290

Feel free to refute anything and/or provide an argument.

>>545292

>Tabletalks

Already debunked, see >>544756

>as they don't reflect his true feelings

Are you using the tabletalks to support this statement?

>>545295

>trusting literally any politician's public speeches is foolish

I know what you mean, but come on.

Any material we could possibly use as a reference comes from either primary or secondary sources, and when scrutinized, his speeches weren't isolated examples of his commitment to Christianity.

>>541954

Christianity would matter far more if they allowed for people to identify as 'ethnic/cultural' christian. Most Jews and Muslims don't care much about their faith, instead they simply see this as part of their identity. Just ask a Turk what he is, and rarely will he tell you "I am a Turk" its always "I am Muslim" same for Jews. Its all about Identity, most people already are Nationalists they simply do not realize it. It makes sense that some of those would search a religious connection that fits their believes.

I'd accept a Nigerian, Arab or whatever else you nazi LARPers hate who fears God and actually follows the Bible over one of you quasi-Pagan supremacist freaks any day. Give up your race fetishism faggot and love God and your brother Man.

>>545442

>>Tabletalks

>Already debunked

No you didn't debunk it, Tabletalks is viewed as trustworthy source by almost all historians. You are just denying what you don't like, that is all.

>>542124

Your logic:

>He tolerated people with anti-Christian attitudes

>Therefore anti-Christian

He tolerated people with pro-Christian attitudes, by your own logic, he is pro-Christian. Good job BTFOing yourself, are you a Catholic, by chance?

>>545641

Nice response to your hallucination of what I said. I never said Hitler was anti-Christian merely because he tolerated anti-Christians. Rather, Hitler explicitly claimed that he would not tolerate anti-Christian attitudes in the NSDAP, and that his movement was Christian. Which was a lie, because he allowed anti-Christians to be high ranking Nazis. Hitler BTFO himself, with no help from me.

>>545565

>Tabletalks is viewed as trustworthy source by almost all historians

Those historians didn't even bother putting the tabletalks under scrutiny (Irving included, and he is criticized for this), nor did they bother to refute what those who did had to say about it.

>In any case, Nilsson nailed it when he wrote, “it is not clear who the real author” of TT is. “We simply do not know how much of it is Hitler’s words as they were spoken, and how much is a product of the later recollection and editing process.”

>And that’s the final word on TT as a primary source. It is worthless until every single original manuscript upon which it is based has been located and authenticated insofar as that is even possible, systematically assessed by a team of Hitler experts, freshly collated to include also the notes taken by Werner Koeppen, and then retranslated (into English, etc.)

If you take the trouble to read the article I linked, what Speer had to say about Bormann in "Inside the Third Reich", while being aware of Trevor-Roper's and François Genoud's multiple cases of academic fraud, you end up with an apocryphal document tainted with Genoud's and Bormann's own political and antireligious biases that contradict all other sources available.

>>541978

Its not that it didnt work the first time, its that having 2 world super powers is hard enough, with Hitler there was 3, 1 super power had to fall, and it was ethier them or communism