/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>540165

No. They're in hell forever. Hell is literally burning beneath your feet as this very moment; in the center of the earth there is fire and brimstone that will never be quenched. The Bible is very explicit about there being a literal, fiery, burning hell, and we are even given such details as there being worms which continually eat their flesh (hell is a place where the worm dieth not).

You shouldn't be distressed by this. We all deserve hell, but God in his great mercy gave his life for us on the cross, dying in our place, and burned for three days and nights in hell for our sake. WHAT MORE COULD HE DO FOR US, THAT HE HAS NOT DONE?

Salvation is a FREE GIFT by FAITH ALONE, because God already paid for your salvation–all you have to do is accept it. Since salvation is a free gift, if people go to hell then not only did they deserve it but they were too stupid to accept a free ticket out, because of their pride, arrogance, and foolishness.

>>540171

>because of their pride, arrogance, and foolishness.

>hate the sin, not the sinner

>but the sinner shall be tortured in hell forever

I can't do it.

>>540165

A saved Christian never has to worry about the punishment of hell. God has already freed you from that fear. So now, if you truly are distressed by the idea of people burning in hell, you should be extremely motivated to GO OUT and PREACH THE GOSPEL–get them to believe on Jesus and get them saved. That's how you'll save them from hell, thanks to our Lord God.

>>540173

You don't have to hate them. What you think doesn't matter. I can tell you that if you doubt the reality of hell which is so clearly, explicitly, and numerously mentioned, then you yourself are in danger of hellfire. I'm telling you that not because I hate you but because I want you to come to repentence. Its an act of love.

Even if you don't like hell, that's what God has chosen to do with unsaved people. He made them and he can do whatever he wants with them. Be humble and accept your place as a servant. You don't make the decisions; only God does.

No one goes to Hell if they don't deserve it. God isn't a bureacracy that mix up your papers and send you there accidentally.

Do you deserve hell, anon? Probably not.

>>540178

>No one goes to Hell if they don't deserve it.

We all deserve it but we are freely justified through Christ Jesus. He is the redeemer of our souls. The true significance of salvation becomes more readily apparent when you consider that a) you don't deserve it and b) you'd be going to hell if Jesus hadn't sacrificed his life for you.

Romans 3

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

>>540178

>Probably not.

You know that many will fall.

Matthew 22:14

>>540171

> Hell is literally burning beneath your feet as this very moment; in the center of the earth there is fire and brimstone that will never be quenched.

By that logic souls are made of atoms and trapped inside the molecule-based magma.

Also is there even enough space for so many dead people in the nucleus of earth?

>>540184

We have absolutely no idea what souls are made of.

>Also is there even enough space for so many dead people in the nucleus of earth?

Absolutely lol. You're seriously underestimating how large the earth is. Even if it were smaller though I wouldn't doubt God's capacity to fit everyone inside of it.

The scriptures say that hell is an eternal lake of fire beneath our feet in the center of the earth. Coincidentally there is a literal lake of fire beneath our feet in the center of the earth, but the fact that we can verify that physically has no impact on my belief. I believe it because that's what the scriptures say.

>>540165

I can't comprehend God's soul when He sees people sinning, so how can I comprehend hell?

I have accepted it though, through his word, and believe the infinite justice of the Creator.

>>540220

because you will understand that it was their choice to make and God cannot have wrongly judged someone

>>540165

Anon if you are questioning the existence of Hell, and I certainly have before, I recommend you learn about Annihilationism. I know one thing for sure, the contemporary belief of exactly what Hell is, is wrong, if you look at the original Greek, and I am sure that Erasmus original English translation might say something about this also, the word Hell is never used. Now in Greek their was no word for Hell at the time, so other descriptive words were used instead, but the overall Theology of Annihilationism is basically that their is no Hell, and when Heathens die their souls are destroyed in fire, not tortured forever. I wish I had some good sources for you to read, but unfortunately I do not.

>>540263

>It was there choice to make

John 6:44

<No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

>>540267

God wills everyone to be saved and they can choose to reject the unique path of Salvation God has layed out for them

>>540268

Alright that is a fair point, I assume you are referencing 1 Timothy Chapter 2 then:

< 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

So do you believe that we have complete Free Will and everyone is open to choose Salvation freely then? Because personally I am somewhere between there and believing that their is either no Hell and we have limited free will, or we just completely don't understand what Hell actually is. I am not trying to catch you up in anything by asking you, I just would really like to know your full opinion.

>>540269

It's ok, no trickery is taken on the subject. My own very limited readings and understandings as a catachumen (pre-Catholic initiate) lead me to believe indeed in an everlasting hell, and also in a God that does not wish to see anyone in it but knows that it is an inevitable consequence of free will. This difficult matter I trust is in accordance with his nature that all things he does are for the ultimate good so therefore it is worth the consequences of creating us. CS Lewis has a very good quote on this matter here that phrases what I am saying much better

–

God created things which had free will. That means creatures which can go wrong or right. Some people think they can imagine a creature which was free but had no possibility of going wrong, but I can't. If a thing is free to be good it's also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata -of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating. The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight compared with which the most rapturous love between a man and a woman on this earth is mere milk and water. And for that they've got to be free.

Of course God knew what would happen if they used their freedom the wrong way: apparently, He thought it worth the risk. (…) If God thinks this state of war in the universe a price worth paying for free will -that is, for making a real world in which creatures can do real good or harm and something of real importance can happen, instead of a toy world which only moves when He pulls the strings- then we may take it it is worth paying.”

― C.S. Lewis, The Case for Christianity

——–

Also here is the Catholic teaching on the matter of our pre-destination with extensive Biblical references (a word often confused for the Calvinistic doctrine of double predestination) https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/predestined-for-freedom

>>540266

Revelation 14:9-11

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Sounds like eternal torment to me, not to mention Jesus' pretty straight-forward description of the Rich Man being tortured in Hades.

Annihilation isn't even punishment. It's non-existence–a completely neutral fate. Why should a sinner care about following God's statutes if he won't even be punished for not doing so? Sure, he'll miss out on Heaven, but it's not like he'd even be aware of that if he simply stopped existing.

>>540165

Orthodox concept of hell is the best, don't fall for scholastic tricks.

>>540279

What IS the Orthodox concept of hell?

>>540279

>>540391

Nevermind, its the same eternal torture but apparently you do it to yourself so that changes everything.

>>540394

t. elementary school flunker

>>540171

>all you have to do is accept it. Since salvation is a free gift

Matthew 7

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Its so strict, even one of the catholic/orthodox canonized saints might be in hell right now. This isn't a free gift. You have to meet specifications. Many are a called, few are elected.

>I've accepted that if God says you can rape someone and then marry that same person for silver, that's fair.

No it doesn't faggot. Stop reading Non-Inspried Version

>>540276

The Bible explicitly says that those who are not saved will die a second death, and I myself hold onto that view that they will be destroyed in Hell, not having received eternal life in torment. As for the scripture you quoted, I can honestly say I don't know how to reconcile that. God will reveal all things in the end.

>>540434

>calls others heretics

>doesn't believe hell is real

>>540438

>You're suffering eternally but for a different reason now

If I was in the book of life I'd probably be able to follow you. But anyways, argument time.

What is this argument? Either way, God CONSENTS to you suffering eternally. He specifically crafted you so you would suffer when you saw God, and uses your future suffering as a argument for turning towards him. In fact his is probably worse because all your relatives go to heaven but suddenly your father or your son who is right next to you starts immolating himself because he can't stand it.

>>540445

We are made to be satisfied by God alone, we desire the infinite and only God is infinite, anything else you put in place of him, some idol, some selfish nonsense, some finite phenomena, will cause you suffering here in this life and in the next.

It's just our ontology. Since we are made in his image. If you don't develop your spirit it will remain weak and diseased and its encounter with eternity will be unpleasant.

The argument is 1+1 = 2.

>>540436

>>540442

Your salvation does not hinge on whether or not you believe in hell. All must obey the will of God, the illiterate and the scholar, yet they require different arguments to be persuaded. This is where "ambiguity" in the Bible comes from.

>>540450

>Your salvation does not hinge on whether or not you believe in hell.

Your salvation doesn't seem like something that would hinge on you believing that the Eucharist is truly Jesus Christ's flesh but yet here we are.

>>540448

Yes, and?

If he DIDN'T create you so you desired god, he would inflict some other eternal punishment on you. Now, the bible doesn't state this because there's no reason to stray out of what god did to what he could have done, but its abundantly clear that this is what would happen.

>>540438

Nice

Also another book to read for Orthodox understanding of God and Heaven and Hell

http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/The%20River%20Of%20Fire%20-%20Doctor%20Alexandre%20Kalomiros.pdf

>Your salvation does not hinge on whether or not you believe in hell.

TO be honest, if you believe that Satan is God's henchman that tortures people by command from Heavens, it does hinge on that on negative side (you'll most likely loose faith after that)

>Inb4 "b-b-but God can do to us what he wants even torture us sadistically"

wallah alilah alhamdullilah allaikhwa. go back to >>>/islam/

>>540171

>Jesus burned in Hell

Nope.

>>540266

> I wish I had some good sources for you to read, but unfortunately I do not.

Hell is one of the things I've really struggled with in my journey to the faith also. I'm by no means clued up, and don't even call myself a Christian yet, but watch vid related a couple of weeks ago which was interesting. He write a book in the 80s expounding this view which has subsequently been updated a couple of times, and is apparently the most comprehensive assessment of anialationism that has yet to have had its points responded to or refuted. Might be of interest.

>>540276

I am on my (very slow) second readthrough of the new testament (sand revelation) and haven't even touched the old let alone revelation, so pardon me if this is foolish, but could that not refer to the people who turn away from God even when he has returned to judge, right there in front of their faces, clear as day, so no one is without doubt nor excuse, that Hell is a just result of their decision?

>>540438

I remember a period when this view would be brushed off as a meme by others on here, thanks for posting the source, (I remember the name being posted the other day i belive unrealted to hell, didn't realise he was the proponent of this view though). It's also seems a more comprehendible view of hell.

>>540610

>(sand revelation)

*sans

Bump for views on annihilationism

>>540478

He descended down into hell after his death for three days and three nights. Hence why he has the keys to hell and is said to have conquered hell and death. Next you people will say Jesus wasn't really crucified.

>Ephesians 4

>9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

>10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

>Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMofDqTa4A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoYCUtIRP30

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:24-30

Its literally eternal hellfire. The obvious version of hell that has been a worldwide meme for millennia. I actually believe the "23minutes in hell" version tbh.

>>540186

>We have absolutely no idea what souls are made of.

Not atoms or molecules. The soul defies the physical universe. That's why we call it "supernatural."

>>540171

>Hell is physical

Where does it say that? As far as I'm concerned, it's in another plane of existence.

>>542161

But none of those passages say He actually burned in hell.

>>542173

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOMofDqTa4A

I swear I remember another anon posting the reasoning in a post as if it were his own in another thread about hell…whose reasoning was then debunked which way i can't remember..

>Mt 13:25-30

What has this got to do with hell being eternal?

>>542332

>posting the reasoning in a post

*posting the reasoning expounded in this video in a post

What is Hell like? How would you describe it?

>>543648

shitty

>>543648

Did you had depression when you wanted to kill yourself? Well, Hell is that feel multiplied severely to the point that you hate everything and want to cease to exist, but because you are immortal you cannot suicide yourself out of existence, so your anguish continues forever, without the end.