/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

The catholic church provides union with Christ through the eucharist

>>539236

Ok I’ll look into this thanks

In short, the catholic church is the one true church established by Jesus, as he first handed the keys to heaven to saint peter. Orthodox church is fragmented and divided.

Heaven-tier:

Eastern Orthodox

Top-tier:

Traditional Catholic

Traditional Anglican

Oriental Orthodox

Great-tier:

Anything "high church" really

LARP-tier:

Anything "low church" really

Hell-tier:

Oneness Pentecostalism

HerChurch

Episcopal Church, and anybody else who has female presbyters and gay marriage

Not-Christian-tier:

Jehova's Witnesses

Mormons

(((Jews)))

Muslims

World Mission Society Church of God

>>539247

Any good starters books or documentaries for Catholicism

>>539249

>Any good starters books or documentaries for Catholicism

I heard Rome Sweet Home is pretty good:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/68538.Rome_Sweet_Home

Other cases for Catholicism - the amount of marian apparitions and miracles. The best music in the world (mozart, beethoven), majority of all educated protestants, when they do the research and study very in depth, they go to Catholicism, not EO. I think most protestants who go to Eastern Orthodox go there instead of Catholicism because of the strong and difficult to remove Anti-Catholic bias that is ingrained in most Protestants.

The philosophical strength of the Catholic church is also really unmatched. We of course highly consider St. Augustine, but also for example St. Thomas Aquinas - basically all western philosophy after him has been influenced by him in some way or the other. You can't study Western Secular Philosophy without having to study at least a bit of him, and I mean to this day his work on Virtue Ethics is still highly regarded amongst secularists.

The Big Bang theory was first proposed by a Catholic Priest, as well as the man who is considered to be the father of Genetics. Louis Pasteur of pasteurization was a devout Catholic.

Also you might want to check out the book: "How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization"

https://www.amazon.ca/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/1596983280

Catholic means universal, and the Roman Catholic church is truly in every country in the world. Where is the Eastern Orthodox Church in Togo? or Sri Lanka, or I could go on. The Catholic Church is in every country in the world, and it is united, just as Jesus intended.

>>539248

There are no tiers, there is only the church or Satan. One cannot serve two masters.

Also

>high church Anglican put on same level as catholic communions

Just no

Either you accept God and eternal life or you accept Satan and eternal death.

Become a Baptist, anon. You know you want to.

>>539255

>not being Anglican-Use

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Use

praise Him

>>539236

I'm Irish, will I stick out like a sore thumb?

>>539233

I would say either a nice, Confessional and conservative Lutheran branch (such as LCMS or WELS) or, depending on the importance you give apostolic succession, Eastern Orthodox.

I believe both groups get a lot of things right. The best homilies I have ever heard are from Lutherans as they tend to have a huge emphasis on the cross and justification. They also place a huge emphasis on the Sacraments in a way I think many other Protestants miss. While generally three are accepted as opposed to seven, the implication is that they are simply the most important because of their connection to the forgiveness of sins and justification. The acceptance of three as opposed to seven is not to lower the importance of the other four as much as it is to elevate those that grant the forgiveness of sins.

Eastern Orthodox have an extremely high regard for Tradition, and, as someone else has already said, they were able to guard themselves from a lot of the abuses that crept into the Western church. If there was an Eastern Orthodox parish near me, I would probably give it a visit. There is also an emphasis on the saints there that I find is lacking in most Lutheran circles. They also have apostolic succession, which is pretty nice. However, I find most of their homilies a bit lacking and some of the Marian doctrine feels a bit more like "praying to Mary" than it does "asking Mary to intercede for us," unfortunately.

>>539255

>There are no tiers, there is only the church or Satan. One cannot serve two masters.

I was saying this in jest, of course. Either you're inside the Church or you're not.

But liturgically and theologically, one can be further or closer to the Church. I'll certainly trust a Catholic or a high-church Lutheran to be saved even while being outside the Church, over an atheist or an occultist.

>Just no

Nothing wrong with high-Church Anglicanism, besides the fact they're in communion with more theologically doubtful Anglicanism, and there's this branch theory nonsense. From an Orthodox perspective, that's no worse than Catholicism.

>>539459

>However, I find most of their homilies a bit lacking

Interesting. Every Orthodox homily I've heard has been a 9 or a 10/10. The best Catholic homily I've heard was a 6/10 in comparison.

>What’s the best form of Christian

One that knows the word of God.

>>539468

Really? That's good. I guess my experience has been that a lot of Orthodox priests preach "Orthodoxy Orthodoxy Orthodoxy" instead of "Christ Christ Christ," if you understand what I mean. That they appear more interested in what makes them different (which is important, granted) than they are in preaching the Gospel (which is much more important). Maybe I just haven't seen the best ones though, that's entirely possible. The other issue is that I would really need to find a Western rite parish as I am called by God to devote my talents to Him through work as a church organist.

As far as good Catholic homilies go, I did hear one that was pretty good about the mercy of God and Rudolf Höss, but that's all I can really speak to.

>>539939

Maybe it's a thing in America due to Orthodox being faced with Catholic and Protestant "liturgies"?

All the Orthodox homilies I've heard were theologically deep, making use of patristics, the contents of our daily lives, and even elements from heterodox traditions (not to embrace them, but to "remix" them so to speak).

I've gone to a couple of parishes in America. The only one with an organ I saw was a Greek cathedral actually.

>>539941

That could be part of it. I really just need to email a priest and have a talk with him. Like I said though, there's really no EO parish anywhere near me, so it's tough to go and "try one out," at least until I graduate university and move. Until then, I like being a confessional Lutheran pretty well, and find that there's not really that many differences that aren't mostly in terminology (defining a sacrament, for example). Luther even mentions a concept similar to theosis in a commentary on Galations, iirc.

>>539233

My personal interpretation which I enforce in my own private church that you'll never be allowed to join for … um … reasons.

ITT

Fellow brothers in Christ, I have a serious question. As you can tell from my flag, I'm a Maronite (Eastern Catholic) from Lebanon. Why must there be "one true" denomination? Isn't it enough that we all follow the Word of God and believe that Jesus died on the cross for us to save us from sin? Why must one denomination be more true than the other? Why all the hate on Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, and many others? I'm just going to throw my two cents in here. A lot of people understand Catholics the wrong way. We don't "pray" to the idols. We use them to remind us of Mary and the Saints. We don't think of Mary as a co-mediator to Christ, that would be absurd and blasphemous. We ask them to pray for us, an intercession if you will. It's the same thing as you telling your friend to pray for you since you're going through a tough time. That's it, no more, no less. Please, stop it with these ridiculous memes regarding Catholics and how they aren't "real Christians". Granted, there are outliers in every group, such is the norm.

>>540002

It's interesting that you bring that up. Usually it's Catholics that I see who tell me that I'll burn in hell because I don't submit to papal authority or something similar.

While there is certainly only one Truth and I do want to find it, I believe that all those who "believe and are baptized" are saved, as long as they aren't worshiping a completely different god (i.e., Mormons, who worship a pantheon). My understanding is that in so believing this, most Catholics would consider me a heretic due to "branch theory."

>>540011

>>540012

I understand your points.

Regarding >>540011 and his point about the Pope, I believe the Vatican has been infiltrated since Vatican II and all these heresies have been put out by these so called popes. Despite being a Catholic, I do not follow man and his teachings. I follow a divine man's teachings. I don't understand how other Catholics can think of the Pope as a "higher" being so to speak, he's just a human like you and I. Does that make me a "fake" Catholic since I don't follow the Pope? What are your thoughts on this?

andersonite baptistism obvi

>>540014

BEGOME

Orthodox.

>>540014

Well, I'm not Catholic, so I can't say for sure. I would speak to your priest about your doubts. If you're still sure of some doctrines like purgatory then Catholicism is probably your best bet.

Being so suspect of Vatican II might put you more in line with the Sedae Vacantists as well. Fake Catholic or not, you are not a fake Christian. And that is what is most important.

>>540020

That's my point. I care about being a good and practicing Christian, not being a Catholic (or whatever denomination I might belong to). I may get some flak for this, but I believe, as I have stated before, that we should be considered Christians, not Catholic or other denominations.

>>540018

Typo?

>>540002

Mary as co-mediatrix and co-redemptrix is actually a pretty popular Latin belief, although not dogmatized.

>Why must there be "one true" denomination? Isn't it enough that we all follow the Word of God and believe that Jesus died on the cross for us to save us from sin?

No. Heresies are damning. Arianism was a problem. Nestorianism was a problem. Monophysitism was a problem. Monothelitism was a problem. From an Orthodox perspective, Papism was a problem. And so on… Whoever doesn't gather with Christ and His Church scatters.

>>540014

You should talk to your priest about these things. If the church you belong to is dogmatically wrong, then it is not the Church, and so it is outside of the ark of salvation. You can't equate those who are inside of the Church with those who are outside. If you belong to the Catholic Church, but do not believe that it is truly and alone the Church, you're excommunicating yourself, you know.

>>540022

I get your point. I'm having a lot trouble determining what Church is true and what is not. Orthodoxy has a lot of good points regarding some of Catholicism's bad points, and the opposite is true as well. What can I do to know which Church is true? I am getting a lot of information overload when reading about Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and others that I end up right where I started, square one. Where can I start?

>>540024

The first step is realizing that "I don't agree with it" is NOT the same as "it is incorrect".

>>540024

Prayer. The same place we should all start and end. With prayer to God Almighty, maker of heaven and Earth, of all things visible and invisible. Visit other churches. Talk to priests or pastors about what they believe. Don't be afraid to bring up your concerns. But mostly, pray. Let God lead you.

>>540021

>Typo?

BEGOME

>>540028

HWAT R U TRYNG SAY?

>>540025

There's no denying that. Next step?

>>540026

Thanks Anon.

>>540029

I AM TRYING TO TELL YOU'RE TO BEGOME ORDODOX.

>>540024

First, fast and pray. As some Orthodox saints have said, theology without prayer and humility is the theology of demons.

Second, talk about this with your priest. That's very, very important. If the responses he gives you are not satisfying, get in touch with an Eastern Orthodox priest and seek information from him too. Or maybe an Oriental Orthodox priest… Aren't the Syriac Orthodox (Oriental) and the Antiochian Orthodox (Eastern) relatively close in Lebanon?

If you end up still being unsure about who is probably the Church, or if you end up still believing that we are part of the Church as long as we believe in Christ, maybe look into some Protestant denomination… Traditional Anglicans are pretty close to Catholics, but they believe that the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches are all branches of the same Church.

I mean, I'm Eastern Orthodox, so of course I believe you should be Eastern Orthodox. But it's your life, not mine.

>>540029

BEGOME

ORDODOX

:DDDD

>>540033

I will not get near Protestants for obvious reasons. Thanks for the tips man. Helps a lot.

>>540032

I WILL NOT BEGOME ORDODOXXXXXX

>>540030

>Next step?

After you truly - TRULY - understand that simple truth, everything else just falls into place.

>>540037

Very well then.

>>539259

Anglican use is blessed

>>539468

Ortholarp detected. Your doxology is completely incorrect as "Eastern Orthodox" theology accepts Roman catholics as being inside the church but not Anglicans nor lutherans. The church exists with valid (even if illicit) bishops. Read St Ignatius.

>>540317

>"Eastern Orthodox" theology accepts Roman catholics as being inside the church but not Anglicans nor lutherans.

Not really, no. You're all outside the Church from where we stand. If anybody's OrthoLARPing here, it's you, making (incorrect) claims about Orthodox ecclesiology for the Orthodox.

>The church exists with valid (even if illicit) bishops. Read St Ignatius.

Valid ordinations or even valid sacraments do not mean you are inside of the Church, although it does mean schism will not last forever. Read St Basil the Great or even just St Augustine.

Although I'm not even sure what your point about St Ignatius is. Which one do you have in mind? St Ignatius of Antioch? If so, I really can't tell what your point is…

>>540070

Kek

>>539248

>le divorce church is top tier

Lol’d

>>540070

*larper

>>540541

Matthew 5:32

>whoever divorces his wife

>makes her commit adultery

>EXCEPT FOR PROSTITUTION

hm