/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>530309

Book of Abraham pretty much refutes Joseph Smith. It was an Egyptian document that Smith bought from a traveling merchant. He translated the document into what would eventually become known as the "Pearl of Great Price", which is the Mormon document that teaches how to get your own universe when you die. Unfortunately for Smith, the document has now been translated professionally and has nothing to do with gods and universes and Mormons–it's a document detailing Egyptian embalming practices!

>>530313

Sauce?

>>530317

https://carm.org/book-abraham-papyri-and-joseph-smith

In 1835, Michael Chandler came through Ohio with an Egyptian exhibit.

The Latter Day Saints saw the exhibit, and saw they had these scrolls in Egyptian.

At the time, Egyptian was a dead language, because the Rosetta Stone hadn't made its way over yet.

When Joseph saw these scrolls he said

>this is the Book of Abraham! by His own hand, God has preserved it for us!

So the Church of Latter Day Saints gathered together an enourmous amount of money to buy all of this.

Smith began translating from the scroll.

He had a journal, diaries, he made his own Egyptian alphabet.

At the time, nobody could check them, because Egyptian was a dead language, he said it was the Book of Abraham, the Pearl of Great Price.

Smith was murdered in Carthage before he finished it.

Afterwards, the scroll disappeared.

Everyone thought it was destroyed in a fire.

But then, in the 1960's, the scroll was rediscovered in the Metropolitan Museum of Art and was delivered back over to the Church of Latter Day Saints.

The Church affirmed that this was infact the same scroll.

They were beyond excited, it was all they'd talk about when it was produced.

>We're going to prove to the world that Joseph Smith was a seer and a prophet! Because we have the original scroll that he translated the Pearl of Great Price from!

So the Church of Latter Day saints began the translation of that text, this time with the help of the Rosetta Stone.

They find out a year later that not one word in it was consistent with what Joseph Smith had come up with.

It was not the book of Abraham, it was not the Pearl of Great Price, it was the book of the dead, a common pagan funerary text.

After this massive embarrassment that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Joseph Smith was a fraud and false prophet, the Church of Ladder Day Saints dissolved.

Today, there are no more adherents to this false religion, and all is right with the world.

>>530320

Except plenty of people are still Mormon. So what do we do about them?

Am I the only one who has their faith shaken a bit by mormonism and scientology? If things so transparently full of shit have followings and intelligent apologetists, how can one not have some self doubt?

>>530372

i've never seen or heard of a mormon or scientologist apologian, let alone an intelligent one.

>>530372

celebrity worship

>>530379

Even just John 1:1 is so terrible. He adds in a lot of extra clauses. And I don't know how you get "the gospel preached through the Son" from "Logos" or "Verbum." Is this really the translation Mormons use? Even as much as Catholics and Protestants talk about KJV versus, say, Douay-Rheims, the translations are not this BLATANTLY different. You would think that some Mormon somewhere would pick up a different translation of the Bible and wonder at all the differences.

As someone who went to one of their congregations for about half a year some things to remember.

-Their faith is based on personal experience and testimony of God answering their prayers/working in their life - which in turn is why they believe in the Mormon holy texts. Hence just BTFOing the book of Mormon wont necessarily do much.

Here is a good start if you want to see the problems with their texts from an insiders perspective

https://cesletter.org/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf

Secondly you know how Orthodoxy and Traditional Catholics have really impressive and all encompassing liturgies? Imagine that power applied to social organisation/networking.

A mormon Sunday lasts about 3 hours 1-hour sermon 1-SundaySchool/ Youth meeting and 1 hour Priesthood meeting.

Add to this you have various social events and practices where members go over to share/instruct, each other, preform proxy baptisms, clean and maintain church grounds as well as prepare and deliver lay sermons. So suddenly your average life has a huge social component dedicated to religious living and church activity.

Likewise there is a huge emphasis on family and helping out other Mormons.

So remember for a Mormon to leave all of that is a very traumatic experience.

Something to remember as well about Missionaries these are young kids who are from another country or state who for 1 year are

-only allowed to contact their parents on holidays

-have to always be within eyesight of one another

-Not allowed to have access to the internet or non mormon books

-Get moved around from stake/parish to parish

-have to rely on their families to pay for this

-Are expected to help the public (which means that some non mormon farms in the pacific literally rely on missionaries for labor by taking advantage of this)

And most importantly well meaning.

>>530382

Michael Ash - for a modern one

Hugh Nibley - for a classic one

They exist however thats not their main method.

>>530404

>-Their faith is based on personal experience and testimony of God answering their prayers/working in their life - which in turn is why they believe in the Mormon holy texts. Hence just BTFOing the book of Mormon wont necessarily do much.

Job would have thoughts on this.

>>530393

KJV I think but that's what Joe Smith made. Wonder why they don't use it.

>>530408

Eyesight rule ain't a bad idea if you're on mission to Detroit or something

Also for people who are curious here is one of the main missionary manuals its fairly short but it gives you an idea of their methods.

https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service?lang=eng

>>530480

>>530479

>Eyesight rule ain't a bad idea if you're on mission to Detroit or something

Of course however its 24/7 even when they are at home they have to be constantly around each other.

>>530404

>Their faith is based on personal experience and testimony of God answering their prayers/working in their life - which in turn is why they believe in the Mormon holy texts. Hence just BTFOing the book of Mormon wont necessarily do much.

Exactly. Many Mormons base their faith on what they call "burning in the breast," a kind of passionate feeling that they think is God at work on their hearts. They might experience this feeling as they contemplate the Mormon narrative or are considering becoming Christian. To a Mormon, this burning validates their doctrine regardless of how many errors are in it.

What is it about Mormons that make them so attractive though?

>>530595

Do you mean physically? Or like an attractive cult? If you mean the former, that sounds like a personal problem. If you mean the latter, I would say that just about every Mormon I have met was incredibly nice. Like bizarrely and in some ways uncomfortably so. I imagine it probably has a lot to do with the severity of their afterlife judgement and their desire to literally become gods. This may be incorrect, but as far as I know they do not believe in the forgiveness of sins. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I investigated Mormons two years and went to several sacrament meetings and Institute classes with intent to join but ultimately didn't. AMA.

>>530595

I'd say just about everything. Their Sunday best, young missionaries, conservative views, clean lives, inspiring GC speakers, and most of all, their cunning ability to look like Protestant Christians.

>>530609

Also their appealing claims that God still speaks directly to Prophets today and they have Priesthood authority directly from Christ. It can be appealing for people who are confused about all the Protestant sects but don't like Cathodoxy, either.

>>530606

Well, whats the best way to approach apologetics and converting them. I think thats the main thing. Or how to get past the "burning in the breast" that was mentioned earlier.

>>530606

Did you meet any QTs who wanted to get married?

>>530595

their esoteric work is dog-on-head crazy, so they require super-spiff and modern outward appearance

Mormonism is dangerous, because it predates on people yearning for Christ

THIS TEACHING REFUTES MORMONISM

Mormons believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet inspired by God to undertake a translation of the Bible. This version, known as the Joseph Smith Bible or the Inspired Version, is believed by Mormons to be theopneustos. Funny enough, this version says, in 1 John 5:7:

>For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

This completely refutes Mormonism! Their false doctrines about three separate beings "united in purpose" are made null by the writings of their "prophet" Joseph Smith!

>>530797

Couldn't they respond with "by 'these three are one,' John means that they are one in purpose, even though the beings are separate," though? Though it would probably go against their teaching that the judgement happens from Elohim, Jesus, and Joseph Smith.

>>530309

Well, tomorrow I have a lunch date? with a Mormon girl. Should I ask her anything autistic? Part of me doesn't want to, make a good first impression and all that. Maybe bring up more as more goes on.

I know she said a lot of what drew her to Mormonism is the environment and the people in it.

>>531720

Ask her about

E N D L E S S C E L E S T I A L S E X

>>531785

Yeah that's the thing, what's even the incentive to be Mormon if you're a woman?

>>531720

If she is serious about Mormonism and you are serious about Christianity it will *never* go anywhere unless one of you goes apostate (im assuming you arent just trying to screw her)

>>531801

The fact that its probably one of the most pro family and supportive religious groups and one that works and helps to get people married.

>>531816

>>531818

>>531824

Of course I don't just want to screw her. Fornication is a sin. That's part of what I want to know: how serious is she about Mormonism. I know only one of her parents is Mormon, which is odd. I suppose that does help. But what is there for a Mormon woman in their afterlife? Just to be in some dude's harem? Doesn't seem very desirable if you ask me.

>>531830

Sorry Im getting mad 504 errors

>How serious is she about Mormonism.

Its a tough issue with any person of faith and one you can pick up via their actions. For instance some Mormon ones –

-does she keep the words of wisdom (no coffee, alcohol, fasting, paying 10% of her money to the church ect )

-does she spend the full 3 hours at Church or just home after the main service

-is she or is she planning on doing her missionary service

Some generic ones

- has she and does she read the bible/BoM regularly

-how big of an issue is the fact you aren't a Mormon to her

-was she born into this religion or did she convert on her own

>But what is there for a Mormon woman in their afterlife? Just to be in some dude's harem?

And you know the whole becoming Gods or another planet and getting to be with Jesus and God the Father. Not to mention getting into the exclusive super heaven as opposed to lower levels.

Remember does not getting 72 virgins in heaven ever make you want to go to Muslim heaven?

>>531839

Thank you, I will keep those in mind.

>>531839

Well, I just returned from my lunch date I think with the girl. She's very nice, and I picked up a few things.

She does keep the tithe, and she said she didn't fast this time but had in the past. I didn't catch anything on alcohol or coffee. She made it sound like she does do her three hours at church, but I never heard her mention anything about her doing mission service.

She seems to be very steeped into the Mormon culture, though she did say that she actually will not date Mormon boys at all and likes the fact I'm not a Mormon. As far as born vs. converted, one parent was Mormon and the other was a very loose liberal "non-denominational" type Christian from what I can tell. Liking the the Mormon parent better (not without reason from what I can tell), she followed that path.

In general, the feeling that I got was that her convictions to Mormonism were more about the social aspect than anything else, though she does seem to have some personal convictions about it.

Mormons are apostate like every other denomination and here's why. Ask a mormon to pull out the book of mormon and look at the front page. It states "Another testament of Jesus Christ"

Now ask them to pull out their Bibles and turn to Hebrews 9:15-17 which states.

>And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the trangressions that were under the first testatment, they which are called might receive the promise of eterneal inheritance.

>For where a testament is, there must also of neccessity be the death of the testator

>For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Ok so there are two testaments at which Jesus died. The first before the world began in titus 1:2, 2 timothy 1:9, and hebrews 9:26 if you doubt he died twice and that suffering equated to dieing when you live forever like Christ. Then see 1 corinthians 15:44, Matthew 10:28, and Revelation 20:10,14-15. The second at which he died in matthew 26:28 and matthew 27:50.

Ask them when did Jesus die again for yet another testament. Pretending they even answer refer them to Revelation 1:18 which states.

>I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys to hell and of death.

Then you can ask them about galations like >>530322 points out should they state the verse in revelations is false.

also botnet gtfo REEEEEE

All denominations are apostate in cy+2 including mormons. Mormons are apostate for a very specific reason and here's why.

If you ever talk to a mormon about the Bible ask them to pull out their book of mormon and read the inscription of the front. It states "Another testament of Jesus Christ. Now ask them to turn to Hebrews 9:15-18 which states

>And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritence.

>For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

>For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

>Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

Ok so for a testament to be enforced the testator must die. Jesus died for the first testament before the world began in Titus 1:2, 2 timothy 1:9, and Hebrews 9:19,26. If you doubt that the "suffered" of verse 26 correlates to death. Then see 1 corinthians 15:44, matthew 10:28, and revelation 20:10,14,15. He also died for the new testament in Matthew 26:28 and 27:50. Ask the mormon when Jesus died again for the testament of the book of mormon. They won't be able to answer. But then direct them to Revelation 1:18 which states.

>I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

So the conclusion is that either the entire book of Revelation is wrong or the book of Mormon is wrong. This is when you point out God warned against angels coming with new gospels in Galatians as >>530322 pointed out.

botnet gtfo REEEEEE

>>532303

Gotta love cloudfare doubleposts.

>>530606

Please answer

>>530595

They're White and non-degenerate.

I'm a regular church going Mormon, AMA

>>537702

How many wives do you have

>>537702

You ever get poop streaks in your magic undies?

>>537857

Not married, and LDS/Mormon religion dictates only 1 wife. The Official Declaration 1 ended polygamy, those who continued got kicked out. FLDS continued polygamy and RLDS/Community of Christ also denounces polygamy.

>>537863

It's not magic, it is symbolic. And yes, people can have accidents. Mormons are still human after all.

>>537702

When did Jesus die again for the "another testament of Jesus Christ" as stated on the book of mormon?

>>537864

>muh dick

Also mormonism is literally the fanfiction of religion

>>537864

Every religion on the planet was doin' the polygamy thing long before Mormons oozed out of their golden plates. Hinduism (Vedic period), Judaism (until Rabbi Gershom), Christianity (to a lesser degree), and Islam all have/had the multiple wives thing.

If that's what you like, then why single out Mormonism?

>>537868

Same place he died for the Old Testament and the New Testament: Upon the Cross. For LDS/Mormons the belief is that man needs continual revelation and prophets, a living testimony, that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior of all mankind.

>>537869

Best part is Jesus.

>>537877

Not really sure what you mean by fanfiction.

>>537884

Can you point to me where he died again in scripture? How could Jesus have died again for another testament of Jesus Christ? Because in Hebrews 9:16-17 KJV

>For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

>For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

You must die for a testament to go into affect. But you said Jesus died again, which would be in grave error because of revelation 1:18 KJV

>I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

>I am alive for evermore

This was said 2000 years ago, after the cross, when Jesus met John to give him the visions of the prophecy of the book of Revelation. So how did Jesus die again if what is said on the front of the book of mormon "another testament of Jesus Christ" is true?

>>537884

I would like to ask what the Mormon response is to Galations 1 as well.

On a doctrinal level, how does justification work? The Mormon that I know says that there is not actually a hell, only different levels of heaven? Doesn't this contradict the words of Christ though during the parable of Lazurus and the rich man?

>>537892

It's the same testimony/testament that Christ lives, just that it is told to the inhabitants of the ancient Americas. He died once, but that doesn't mean he can't have multiple records for all of the children of God.

>>537896

Same idea. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be nothing more than a testament to the ancient inhabitants of the Americas of the gospel. All of God's children need to hear it, not just a small group.

There is a hell, commonly referred to as Outer Darkness. The idea is that in order to reach it one must commit the same acts that Judas or Lucifer or Cain did. i.e. Reach a perfect understanding that Jesus is the LORD and then murder him afterwards.

>>537903

>He died once

Actually Christ died twice. First realise in the Bible physical death is not a permenant thing. Jesus Matthew 27 and lazuras John 11 came back from physical death. But nobody ever comes back from the eternal sufferring/pain/death of the lake of fire Revelation 20:14.

Jesus died once for the "first covenant" Hebrews 9:1 or I should say "first testament" Hebrews 9:15. He suffered/was dead since the foundation of the world Hebrews 9:26 because of the previous verse in Hebrews 9:25 referring to the physical/wordly "as the high priest entereth" "first covenant/testament". While also only being a spiritual law as romans 8:8 applies since Jesus died and the sacrifices were according to the physical law spoken of in Hebrews 9:19.

Jesus died a second time on the cross in Matthew 26. This is known as a "new testament" Hebrews 9:15 or the second testament, as Jesus died again. But this time Jesus came not just by water 1 john 5:6, but with the physical blood and spiritual water of John 19:34-25 and 1 john 5:8. You can tell this is different because the sacrifice is no longer physical of Hebrews 9:25, but spiritual of 1 peter 2:5.

>just that it is told to the inhabitants of the ancient Americas.

>but that doesn't mean he can't have multiple records

Oh well then you agree with me you should stop using the book of mormon then and just use the uncorruptable word of God. That's great as the KJV Bible is that very same thing.

>>537903

Interesting. But what of the rich man then? I also know that many mormons are very interested in extensive family history and ancestry, but doesn't the Bible warn about "endless genealogies" and the like?

>>537927

Care to give me your interpretation of the verses then in accordance with 1 peter 1:20?

>>537916

This is bizarre. What church teaches this?

How did Jesus die before His incarnation?

At what point did He die His first death?

And your idea is again bizarre, because it seems to disregard the latter half of Hebrews 9:

>For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

>For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

>Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

>For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,

>saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you.”

>Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.

>And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

>Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

>For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

>not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another—

>He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

>And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

>so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

You say that Jesus died once for the old covenant, and a second time for the new covenant, but the point of the author of Hebrews is that the heavenly covenant (the new) needed the sacrifice of Jesus the High Priest by Jesus the High Priest, while the earthly covenant (the old) needed the sacrifice of beasts by the high priest. He also makes a point to say Jesus died once…

Let me post St John Chrysostom's homilies on Hebrews 9.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf114.v.xix.html

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf114.v.xx.html

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf114.v.xxi.html

>>537903

Do Mormons really believe that Jesus is St Michael the Archangel?

>>537933

>28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Christ was offered once, that's the point of His sacrifice. It's offered once unlike the offerings made by the high priest of the OT who made a new offering every year.

>>537937

>This is bizarre.

It's the truth.

>What church teaches this?

I am just quoting the Bible, I don't think a single synogogue of Satan teaches this.

>At what point did He die His first death?

As the Bible says, physical death is reversible in John 11 and Matthew 26. But Jesus has sufferered since the foundation of the world Hebrews 9:26. The lake of fire of revelation 20 is referred to as the "second death" in revelation 20:14. But you don't really stop existing in the lake of fire. You are just "tormeneted day and night for ever and ever" as said by Revelation 20:10.

Now after reading all that read Hebrews 9:26 again and realise Jesus existed in deutoronomy 31 because of acts 7:45. Jesus also existed in Psalms 110:1 as stated by David and Jesus Himself in Matthew 22:44-45. Jesus also said in John 8:58

>Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Now see Proverbs 8. It is clear because of proverbs 8:14-16 and proverbs 8:34-36 that Jesus is the speaker/writer of this chapter of Proverbs. So because Jesus says proverbs 8:22-31 He clearly has existed with God forever before time even was a thing.

>>537938

>Let me post St John Chrysostom's homilies on Hebrews 9.

I ain't clicking that so could you give me the interpretation of the verses as said by him posted here?

>>537939

I know this. He was offered once on the cross for both physical and spiritual offerings.

The physical offerings of the first testament/covenant were made with the "blood of calves and of goats" according to all of leviticus and hebrews 9:19. Jesus died the first time to make the "first covenant" of Hebrews 9:1 also known as the wages of sin being death in romans 6:22-23

>But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

>For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

>At what point did He die His first death?

I never actually answered this. After reading all the above verses see Ezekiel 31 and note how "the Assyrian" is "mourned" over and "cast into hell" in ezekiel 31:15,17. While also noting lucifer/Satan is called the assyrian in isaiah 14:12,25. All KJV only btw or it makes no sense.

This is why Jesus and God have "suffered since the foundation of the world" in Hebrews 9:26. They were mourning.

>>537953

>I am just quoting the Bible, I don't think a single synogogue of Satan teaches this.

Do you mean that you are non-denominational?

What makes you think that your interpretation of the Bible is correct and that the 15-or-so communions out there got it wrong?

>Now see Proverbs 8. It is clear because of proverbs 8:14-16 and proverbs 8:34-36 that Jesus is the speaker/writer of this chapter of Proverbs. So because Jesus says proverbs 8:22-31 He clearly has existed with God forever before time even was a thing.

I mean, we agree that Jesus is the voice of God, and so He is the one who spoke to the prophets. But you didn't really answer the question here. When did Jesus' first death happen?

>I ain't clicking that so could you give me the interpretation of the verses as said by him posted here?

Which verses in particular?

>>I ain't clicking that

Are you too busy? We can resume the conversation later if you would like, /christian/ is a slow board.

>>537956

>Jesus died the first time to make the "first covenant" of Hebrews 9:1 also known as the wages of sin being death in romans 6:22-23

That the wages of sin is death is not the first covenant, otherwise God Himself is the author of sin. The wages of sin being death is the result of the Fall.

>>537957

I feel that you haven't really answered either way. The devil is cast into Hell, and the Father and the Son mourn this? What does that have to do with Jesus's first death for the old covenant?

>>537957

Also, don't make a point out of using the KJV specifically, as if the early Church was familiar with the KJV. Only point out what version you're using if you're basing yourself off the original language - whether it is the Masoretic, or the LXX.

>>537957

Maybe you should make a separate thread talking about this. This thread is about how to convert and save Mormons, and it's kind of derailed into…. whatever this is.

>>537960

>Are you too busy?

No I just ain't clicking that cianigger honeypot.

>Which verses in particular?

All of them, your complete interpretation accounting for all the verses I have quoted so far.

>What does that have to do with Jesus's first death for the old covenant?

Well wouldn't you feel bad about casting someone into hell you just got done praising as "nor was any tree in the garden of God like unto him in his beauty." in ezekiel 31:3-9? Clearly God felt so bad he "suffered since the foundation of the world" hebrews 9:26 because of it.

>otherwise God Himself is the author of sin.

Nope that's Satan for sinning and getting cast into hell in the first place see the above.

>>537963

>Also, don't make a point out of using the KJV specifically,

What version would you rather me use? I can assure you that any other will make God a liar if they were true.

>>537967

>No I just ain't clicking that cianigger honeypot.

Not sure what you mean by this. What are you bothered by?

>All of them, your complete interpretation accounting for all the verses I have quoted so far.

Just to make sure, is that:

Hebrews 9:1

Hebrews 9:15

Hebrews 9:26

Hebrews 9:25

Romans 8:8

Hebrews 9:19

Matthew 26

1 John 5:6

John 19:34-25

1 John 5:8

1 Peter 2:5

John 11

Matthew 26

Hebrews 9:26

Revelation 20:14

Revelation 20:10

Deutoronomy 31

Acts 7:45

Psalms 110:1

Matthew 22:44-45

John 8:58

Proverbs 8:14-16

Proverbs 8:34-36

Proverbs 8:22-31

Ezekiel 31:3-9

Ezekiel 31:15,17

Isaiah 14:12,25

Is that the full list?

My point is of course not to throw the Fathers at you and say you're wrong, but show you how they understood these scriptures and know if you disagree, and if so, on what and why. I'm just curious, really…

>What version would you rather me use? I can assure you that any other will make God a liar if they were true.

Use whatever version you like, just recognize that the early Church did not use the KJV, but the Koine Greek LXX and the Koine Greek New Testament.

You might want to make a new thread, I think we've derailed this one far enough.

Mormons have a lot of their sacred ceremonies based off Masonic rituals. Not to mention destroyed boy scouts

Come join us for Everlasting Fun Posting

>>>/endlesscelestialsex/

>>537916

Mormons understand the raising of Lazarus to be different than resurrection. A spirit may be put back into the body and restored to life, but death will occur again. But when a physical body is resurrected, it becomes pure and undying. Freed from pain eternally.

>>537925

2 things: Building on the resurrection comes the distinction between it and everlasting life. All of God's children that receive a body, even those like Cain or Judas, will be resurrected (and consequently have power to control Satan). However, only those who wish to inherit the highest degree of Celestial glory will have endless life. That is understood to mean endless lives, or

ENDLESS CELESTIAL SEX

where those people become as God the Father is. Creating new worlds and new spirits for their glory, and the glory of God. As far as the distinctions between the degrees of glory or heavens we have 3:

Celestial Heaven is for those who obey God in faith and follow His word to the best of their ability. These people will live with God the Father as angels or as gods depending on in they were sealed in a temple as a married couple or stayed single/ unsealed.

Next is the Terrestrial Heaven, for those who lived good lives but rejected God. They choose not to progress and damn themselves to a lesser Heaven. It isn't to say that this degree of Heaven is worse off than the Celestial one. e.g. For a good man who is an atheist he will find living eternally with like company to be enjoyable, but to live with righteous Christians would be torment.

The last degree of Heaven is the Telestial. The liars, whores, thieves and other wicked people who did not accept God but instead succumbed to temptations end up here. Even this heaven will be filled with God's love to an unimaginable degree. e.g. the woman who was spared from stoning if she returned to her sins. Mercy will be given to them because they did not fully accept Satan.

So for the rich man to reach the highest degree he must shed of any unholy desires and follow God. Otherwise he will still end up in the Terrestrial heaven, but not the Celestial one.

>>537939

We believe that St Michael the Archangel is Adam, the first man of Creation. And that the angel whom comforted Jesus in the garden was Michael.