>>529746
>>529816
Furthermore, to that wikipedia article:
>Criticisms
>No reasons for morality: If there is no moral standard other than God's will, then God's commands are arbitrary
< Having no understanding of God …
See, this line of argument STARTS from an assumed principle, that there is enshrined somewhere "virtue" and, more often than not, if you dig deep enough into someone's reasoning for this, you'll discover that they assert this because humans know what virtue is. It is a comprehensively man-centred line of argument.
>No reasons for God: This arbitrariness would also jeopardize God's status as a wise and rational being, one who always acts on good reasons. As Leibniz writes …
While I am not usually /pol/, on this occasion I'll go with /pol/-reasoning: ((( Jewish logic )))
>"if arbitrary will takes the place of reasonableness"
Again. It is completely rooted in man-centred thinking. "We know what virtue is, but if god is arbitrarily redefining it, waaaah, he's then out of step with our superior reasonableness.
Fedoras. Why do they exist?
>Anything goes: This arbitrariness would also mean that anything could become good, and anything could become bad, merely upon God's command.
Failing to understand who God is, more precisely, the sheer magnitude and vast importance of His infinite, timeless, immeasurable and incomprehensible nature. God is the very rock this universe stands on. Were the rock otherwise, the universe would be otherwise purely by definition.
>As 17th-century philosopher Ralph Cudworth put it: "nothing can be imagined so grossly wicked, or so foully unjust or dishonest, but if it were supposed to be commanded by this omnipotent Deity, must needs upon that hypothesis forthwith become holy, just, and righteous."
Oh, look, a 17th century fedora!
Once again, this only applies if you have an incorrect concept of God, or are fedora-thinking about a world of multiple gods and what possibilities might exist. That is godless and awful reasoning.
>Moral Contingency: … "If nothing prevents God from loving things that are different from what God actually loves, …-
Lemme stop you right there. This argument, once more, starts from the idea of a limited super-powered human-esque being up there in the clouds who changes with his whims and fancies as though he were a man.
NO, fedora! NO! BAD fedora!
< God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?
>… This is obviously objectionable to those who believe that claims about morality are, if true, necessarily true."
To people who believe that human reasoning that has determined the truth of good morals is the highest law.
>Why do God's commands obligate?: … In other words, might makes right.
Yes, but you're free to object. Again, they're thinking about human kings of divine substance. Pathetic and woeful: this is what human reasoning is if these are the best objections they can come up with.
>God's goodness: … A related point is raised by C. S. Lewis: "if good is to be defined as what God commands, then the goodness of God Himself is emptied of meaning and the commands of an omnipotent fiend would have the same claim on us as those of the 'righteous Lord.'"
Oh, Jack, I am so disappoint that you would side with such philosophers.
There IS no omnipotent fiend. Who God is is the ONLY source of morality we have. God did not sit down and say, "y'know what, I should clean-up my act, and be a better deity. I'll formulate some good morals and obey them." They ARE who God is. For who is outside God that they may advise Him of this higher standard He should obey? God is the beginning and the very end of all things. To whom else could we appeal that, "God is unjust"?
>The is-ought problem and the naturalistic fallacy: …
I'm not smart enough to understand this.
>No morality without God: If all morality is a matter of God's will, then if God does not exist, there is no morality.
And with this, fedoras finally understand how the world works.
Well done, fedoras. You have just reached the end of all your philosophies: complete, abitrary morality based on the whims of the reason of men. With this, you will doom all creation.