No.7782
So thoughts on the transition from cel animation to digital animation in the anime industry?
No.7803
It's just a tool, I don't see why you would care if the end result looks good.
I wouldn't even mind CG if they figured out how to make it look as good or better than hand drawn animation, but it seems we have a long way to go on that front.
No.7805
Digital is shit for normalfags
No.8229
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
This was all done digitally
No.8441
>>7803
>it seems we have a long way to go on that front
Yes, and it's a shame studios aren't looking to revive old animation techniques for depicting motion with this new format.
No.8457
>>8441
New techniques are popping up but one thing that bothers me is some of the purely digital animators's animations are all flashy and that's nice and all but look at something like Princess Mononoke that was mostly cel or the newer Ghibli films that are all digital they all feel natural, but that might be due to all the animators being old or having that training from the oldfags.
No.8477
Anyone collect cels? I have a decent variety of them I have acquired over the years. No idea how many are real or fake since many of them were from ebay sellers.
No.8537
>>8441
I'm reminded of a quote from an anime director. He talked about why 3D animation looks so awful in anime. His response was something along the lines of "The first thing everyone forgets when directing 3D is everything they learned from directioning 2D"
No.8541
No.8629
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>8457
It's also a question of viewer preference, whether you prefer the overly flashy animations of today or the exaggerated realism of yesteryear. Judging from thinly veiled rec threads I've been lurking recently, it seems like Fate Stay will be the industry standard for animation for a while.
>>8477
Call me a pleb if you must but I've never felt the urge to collect animation cels. They seem like something that would be great to keep in a library or some other sort of publicly available resource though.
>>8537
That would explain why 3D generated backgrounds are so jarring and how often perspective is messed up during camera panning in those scenes.
No.8630
>>8629
> it seems like Fate Stay will be the industry standard for animation for a while.
How so? I haven't watched anything about it.
No.8637
>>8630
It's a huge franchise and seems to be the go-to name when talking about good action in Anime. Judging from the clips I've seen, the style is bombastic but characters rarely portray their motion effectively as in that embed.
No.8638
>>8637
I see what you mean.
No.8660
>>8638
Yes and I find it a shame personally. Compared to the best F/S fight compilations on YouTube the motion drawn in >>8441 is orgasmic even if the perspective of close up on his hands is a bit weird. It's all in the little details like the emphasized tension/shakes, the paper curling and how his whole body twists and turns when he draws his sword from his hip while sitting.
No.8713
>>8660
New animators lack the old training.
No.8717
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>8629
>That would explain why 3D generated backgrounds are so jarring and how often perspective is messed up during camera panning in those scenes.
Embed is a super autistic takedown of the 2016 Berserk show. He basically show how the director completely failed to use even the most basic film practices when making the series.
No.8723
>>8717
>12 min
Fuck it I'll watch.
No.8830
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>8717
>super autistic
I wouldn't exactly call noticing a lack of continuity super autistic but that is a pretty big problem with camerawork in modern Anime. The perspective moves around more than the characters do in some scenes which makes the whole shot look absolutely awful.
What annoyed me the most about Berserk 2016 was the low framerate animation oddly enough.
No.8847
>>8541
I will see if i can figure out which box they are in. I could use some wall decoration at this point
No.8876
>>8847
It'd be nice to see old cel work.
No.9151
>>8847
>wall decorations
If you have a series of cels from a sequence you could line them up around your room, spin around in an office chair and animate them.
No.9446
>>8876
I found the box last night. The first cel is pretty large. Then we have one of the prepacked cels from tmnt. The kagome cel background is a screen shot from the school from Ramna 1/2 i printed out and stuck behind her. I never got around to trying to locate that scene. The ryoko cel is just her body. I found the scene in the movie and recreated the background in mspaint. It still looks seamless to me.
The usps boxes are stuffed full of more cels and there are a bunch more framed cels stacked in the box.
>>9151
I have some nonsense cels in order but I am not going to try.
No.9473
>>9446
This is pretty fucking cool anon.
No.9475
>>9446
Akane cel with a random screenshot printed for the background. Iczer 3 with repro background. Comfy kiyone and finger wagging kiyone.
No.9476
>>9473
More coming I am just trying to do too many things at once.
No.9478
>>9476
>>9475
Good shit anon.
No.9500
>>9475
This kei cel is a lot like the ryoko cel from tenchi muyo in love above needing a background to help fill it out. Maybe this will be my next project. If I can find the scene it should not be too hard to make a background for it. and that cel of the emperors wife is the last of the framed cels. Isn't that nice they sent me a bonus cel. another cel of the emperors wife. another kiyone.
>>9478
There is much more variety than I remember. I was expecting a shitton of kiyone cels.
No.9514
>>9500
nice little botan profile. Another bonus cel. A "quality" cel from el hazard. What a shame that soun tendo belongs in a frame. Some random nadesico cel
No.9521
>>9514
Love the first pic.
No.9545
>>9521
I am finding stuff i forgot I had. I should have opened this box sooner.
Another not animu from heman. two cels of Linna's hardsuit from BGC 2032. another nice kei to work on and rhea from gallforce.
No.9675
>>9545
Project A-ko from geryside blueside. X-men cel. More he-man. More samurai pizza cats.
No.9684
>>9675
more SPC. What appears to be a butthurt former mod. Hey it is that guy. remember him? and finally some cream lemon cels. The rest is all a mixture of kiyone cels and xmen cels. Hope you enjoyed the cel show.
No.9694
>>9684
I enjoyed the cel show, thanks for the cel show.
I just realised that Anime going entirely digital also means no more tidbits like these for collectors to share.
No.9745
>>9675
You even have project A-Ko cels
No.9748
>>9694
well you have the key frames done on paper but that might change in the next ten years.
No.9754
>>9745
I keep finding more.
No.9776
FLCL is one of the few series which got digital animation right in my honest opinion. That's because they started out with hand-drawn sketches and simply translated them to the digital format, a step which seems to get skipped more and more nowadays.
No.9835
>>9776
> That's because they started out with hand-drawn sketches and simply translated them to the digital format, a step which seems to get skipped more and more nowadays.
Many still do this such as Ghibil and Shinkai's team plus a few others but new studios like Coloarido are going full on digital.
No.9908
How is anime filmed? How do you go from the drawings to the final show which ends up as an mkv on your hardrive?
No.9909
>>9776
Honest question, what's the difference? That you can see the sketchy pencil/pen lines in the final product? I don't see how someone drawing on a high-end graphics tablet and drawing on a piece of paper then scanning it is an argument. One just takes less steps. If you want the pencil/pen look you can just use a different digital brush. The good tablets have pressure sensitivity so the lines you draw can be naturally thick or thin and taper off at the ends. Shit, my smartphone does that.
No.9910
>>9908
Is this low-effort trolling or do you genuinely not know how traditional animation works?
No.9920
>>9909
Although planning with physical mediums like paper can help, there probably isn't much of a difference from what you can do on a tablet now than a piece of paper.
No.9940
>>9910
Sorry for being retarded
No.9960
>>9940
In olden times, they would have a stack of animation cels (as seen ITT) for every frame of animation. There's the background, the characters, static objects, etc. However many you need, that's why they're mostly transparent. The stack of cels is lit from behind and then they expose one frame of the movie film to the lit stack, effectively taking a picture of it. They change the cels and do it again for each frame of the reel of film. Obviously you can save money by using the same background picture for an entire scene and just changing the character ones to make them move, instead of re-drawing the background every time. Or making characters' parts move at a lower frame rate by using the same cel for more than one frame. Then when you run the film through a projector at a speed of 24 frames per second, it looks like moving animation. It's like a flipbook.
Converting filmstrips into VHS is black magic lost to history that I don't care to research, but converting film strips into a digital movie file is as easy as scanning each individual frame of the film, and combining the pictures into a video file that plays them back at 24 fps. Photoshop can actually do this and make a gif out of any series of images, but there's obviously better software for this purpose.
Nowadays, the process is entirely digital. You draw the pictures on a graphics tablet, then import the pictures directly into the video authoring software.
No.10420
No.11166
No.11184
>>11166
Once I sort through and hang what I have maybe I can post some more Kiyone or show off some of the completed backgrounds for the cels that really need them.
No.11322
>>9500
Sakura Wars and Tenchi. Two of my favorite girls of all time! Lucky.
They sell cels at a hobby store I like to frequent. Do you just keep them in boxes or display them? What the end goal for all these?
No.11325
I would buy some Ghibli cells but they are probably expensive as all fuck.
No.11331
>>11325
Yeah the were going for hundreds at the comic/hobby store, and they weren't even that great of characters.
No.11334
No.11335
>>9446
Would you be willing to part with one of your Ryoko cels? I'd happily buy one from you had a extra one you didn't like or something.
No.11336
>>11334
Jesus…. Little too high for my blood.
No.11340
>>11335
nm I found some online
No.11344
Whew…. All my favorite characters are pricy.
Stumbled on this while looking for onion bro earring too. KEK! What the fuck and people really that pathetic.
No.11444
>>11335
There are some decent work required cels online. If you were to receive one and locate the screen of it in use I am sure someone could recreate a background you could then print out and slip in behind your cel and display framed on your wall.
>>11304
No need for envy anon. There are cels right now without homes on mandarake and ebay that are fairly cheap for what they are.
>>11322
All of the framed cels were out on display up until a year ago when I bought my new home. When i moved the cels were one of the three boxes that were Air condition transported and stored in my new home to protect them from damage. They will all be up on my wall again soon and some are projects i bought cheap to create backgrounds for.
I usually do not buy cels that are perfect center frame with complete figures. Those tend to be pretty expensive. I like to look for cels with figures that are incomplete where part of the figure is replaced with the background or another cel. Only one cel can get the background and if there is a second cel only one cel can get that second cel so the other 15-20 frames in that sequence might go for 1/4th the price of the complete cel with matching background. Cels that have damage where they are stuck to other cels or the douga or the lines are fading or the paint has been damaged are still unique pieces from your favorite show. They may sell cheap and it is a shame to see how some cels were treated some times but they still need a home as well.
It is also a good idea to serch for cel animation cel or animated cel etc some times there are people who have no idea what the cel they have is from. I have found some nice cels that way as well.
With all that being said I am not a cel expert I just purchase things i like when i see them cheap. High temps and stacking cels on other cels or paper or directly on backgrounds is a bad idea. If you are going to buy cels please read up on it first. There are important things to know about collecting cels. Remember if you can't be bothered to take care of the cel then it is probably best not to buy it. let someone else have it that will store it properly. Don't forget to buy some bags for your cels and douga.
No.11451
>>8717
>film school student explains stuff to you
>>>/trash/
No.11759
>>11444
Thanks for all your tips. It was really informative. I'll take my time looking around before I splurge buy. When you get your Cels up, you should post them. Your collection is really impressive. Don't worry, any cel I buy will be taken care of.
I have a collection of Silver Age comics which I pretty much baby. You can't have the pages turning off white now! CGC would mark it down to 5.5.
No.11772
I would buy a cel if I had the cash.
No.11792
>>11759
>When you get your Cels up, you should post them.
Will do.
>I have a collection of Silver Age comics
I am looking for a way to display mine.
>>11772
Better to have food and shelter than a cel
No.11798
No.11828
>>11792
Whoa. Your collection is way bigger than mine. I recently drove into town to get some of mine cased. It was a lot of fun. I got to geek out with a professional grader…is that what you call them. If you're still around, I'll post some of mine.
Are you THE comic guy in /co/? The guy who always wins arguments by posting actually pictures from your comics. We probably talked many times before.
>Better to have food and shelter than a cel
True.
No.11830
>>11828
You got them cased? Is that for displaying them? I am looking for a good way to display some of my favorite covers. I am interested in seeing what the casing looks like.
>Are you THE comic guy in /co/?
Sorry not me but that does sound like fun.
No.11835
>>11830
>Is that for displaying them?
Yup. I have a lot of 1st issues/appearances that I wanted to hang around my room. A lot of them we're graded around 7ish because I read them so much as kid.
Once you case it though, you will not be able to read it. If you skilled enough, you could try opening the case, but if you accidentally bend a page, you risk your comic dropping to lower grade and losing value. I have tiny hand/fumble fingers so I will not risk opening them myself. I rather pay some nice comic guy to do it.
When you get it graded, they encase your comic in a thin plastic to protect it. Then they will either frame it (they will try to push one of their frames on you, but you can choose your own if you want) or they'll just put it one of their glass cases.
Come to /co/ man. It is a lot of fun. /co/ and /animu/ are the best boards imho.
No.11836
>>11451
It's almost as if I don't have infinite levels of knowledge and like hearing the perspective people with indepth knowledge of fields I am not trained in,
No.11838
>>11830
Don't mail your comics to anyone!Take a road trip, go in yourself, and watch them case it.
No.11846
>>11836
>with indepth knowledge of fields
>film school student
>>>/reddit/
No.11878
>>11846
Could you please continue to keep us up to date about what all your friends on reddit are thinking?
No.12656
>>11878
Could please go back to >>>/reddit/ already
No.13383
>>8629
>Fate Stay will be the industry standard for animation for a while.
I fucking hope so.
>>8630
>I haven't watched anything about it.
UFOtable has been able to deliver some visually stunning works, i highly recommend you to check out Fate/Zero, FATE UBW(TV) and Kara no Kyoukai.
Even if you are not that into the series themselves the eye-candy alone is absolutely worth your time, just be sure to grab a BDRip from Nyaa.Pantsu.
No.13390
>>11835
>Come to /co/ man. It is a lot of fun.
I usually stop in their streams
>>11838
>Don't mail your comics to anyone!
Yeah I can only imagine how many times their people fuck up something that was perfect return it to someone else or "accidentally" switch it out with a similar but lower quality copy. Who is going to know how bad it is inside if it is in a case after all.
No.13485
>>13383
The eye candy is near Shinai levels.
No.13851
>>11792
I'm hopping you post more.
No.14374
Digital stuff can do some amazing stuff.
No.16186
Do you think digital effects lessen the feel of new anime?
No.16225
>>16186
Not that it lessens the feel but my gut instinct is telling me digital animation technology is not being used to its fullest potential. I'd more readily blame the lack of worthwhile series on a lack of directing talent.
No.16226
The shit I've seen with programs like Opentoonz and TV paint is pretty impressive.
No.16241
>>16225
Your gut instinct is mostly correct. Digital paint and effects are more versatile than painting and layering cels, but whereas painting and compositing cels had decades to be refined, there aren't many who have a good handle on digital yet. I'd recommend you watch some commercially-backed experimental work from the digital era like Genius Party Beyond or Animator Expo to get an idea of what some creativity with digital can do visually.
No.17125
Stuff like this pushes things even further digitally.
No.17168
>>17125
>it's another episode of filthy career bureaucrats killing off something good about the world
That's really bleak man. Really, really bleak.
No.17169
No.17172
>>17169
And it's also under Abe's government.
No.17569
We need more websites focused on animation…
https://washiblog.wordpress.com/
No.17579
No.17584
>>17569
>composition
>innocence
That entire sequence was amazing to watch.
>>13644
No.18055
No.18059
>>18055
>800px wide
>in cy+3
confused_anime_girls.png
No.18610
You think 2D on paper will die soon?
No.21963
>>18610
Unless people have no reason to use ink on paper anymore, it shouldn't. Not to say it won't suffer a miserable fate though.
No.22290
>>13851
Hung up a few to get an idea of how many and about what kind of spacing I want for the framed stuff. I have purchased a few cels since the last dump so maybe I can drop a few more in the future. Still a lot of work to do. Also need to paint the other wall. That piss color wall is pretty nasty.
No.22291
>>22290
That's pretty rad.
No.22297
>>22290
>piss color
That's barely hydrated.
No.22309
>>22290
That's pretty boss, anon. Keep it up
No.22973
One of the issues with digital animation is that the source has a fixed resolution (generally well below even 1080) so any high-res releases are necessarily upscales while traditional animation, being analog, has the potential for being transfered natively at any given resolution, though still obviously limited by noise and quality. The blu-ray version of outlaw star is an example of a traditional anime done correctly and it clearly shows that it could be done in 4k just as well, but in the digital front I don't know of any anime besides >>17499 that is natively at 1080p (2048x1080 to be precise). Upscales in anime aren't nearly as bad as in live action but doing them properly still takes skill and gives an additional step for someone to fuck up.
No.22995
>>22973
Marry was native 1080p?
No.23005
>>22995
The only source for that information that I have found is imdb, but given that the specs they have for other anime generally coincide with independant sources that is most likely the case. Also it says 2k, which in cinema generally means 2048x1080 but that doesn't match the aspect ratio of the movie (1.85:1) so it was probably 2000x1080.
No.23006
>>23005
More people such as Shinkai want anime in native 4k.
No.26550
No.26590
>ywn own the original cell of Noriko's pubes
No.26605
>>22973
>One of the issues with digital animation is that the source has a fixed resolution (generally well below even 1080)
In the late 90s/early 2000s when digipaint was getting started this was a problem. Since the late 2000s most shows are animated at 720p, or more.
And those images you posted look like fucking shit. They're obviously upscaled from a standard def encode of whatever old Slayers DVD came out 15 years ago (which in turn looks like it's sourced from some old D2 or Digibeta master tape with a max resolution of 576i, if we're being generous). Cel drawn anime can look amazing in HD, but only when you scan the actual fucking film it was shot on.
>SlayersNEXTBDrip.png
Oh, so I guess someone in Japan just decided to upscale without looking for the film reel it was shot on. Fuck that.
>>26590
>Noriko's pubes
Now I'm even more mad that Gainax/Bandai fucked the bluray release.
No.26649
>>26550
They could do great if they had a renaissance moment where they went back to the roots of animation instead of trying to one-up each other with how absurd their animations are. There's still passion in the animation industry, just a lack of direction which may or may not sort itself out.
No.26656
>>26649
I'd like for more of this too.
No.26678
>>26605
>In the late 90s/early 2000s when digipaint was getting started this was a problem. Since the late 2000s most shows are animated at 720p, or more.
You missed the point of that post. Back in the 90s/early 2000 low resolution digital animation was enough for the releases of then, but there is no film reel to rescan for a proper hd release. 720p might be enough today for a full-hd bd (although going to 1080 is still a 50% vertical upscale) but anime upscaled to 4k is already being sold in limited quantities and 4k displays have been in the market for a couple of years now while full-hd ones are slowly being removed from it. So what is produced today is everything that you can get for the future without extensive modification/remaking and there is no possibility of improving as it can be done with traditional animation, unless you like full 3D cgi anime because that one can be rerendered.
Moving to a screen resolution higher than the one that was the standard when the anime was released will result in having to deal with upscales more with digital animation than what it could have been the case with a continuation of traditional animation. Slayers is obviously not a good example for that, which is why outlaw star gets cited instead, but it is an example of a bad case where you have to upscale if you want to watch it in a modern screen.
No.28267
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Digital anime is here to stay…..
No.28373
>>28267
I can't wait for the new golden age of 120Hz 3DCGI gridmark OAVs.
No.28420
>>28373
>gridmark OVAs
Is that a new genre?
No.28673
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>28420
It should be… HAHA
No.29096
>>28673
That animation reminds me of Bubuki Buranki.
No.29097
>>29096
God this was such amazing.
No.29098
Final render. Frame rate is king with 3DCG.
No.29099
>>29097
Sorry I was so blown away I couldn't type properly.
No.29100
No.30811
3d character designs still need work…
No.30823
>>29096
>PS1 intro
WHY NOT AN ANIME?!
Thats pretty impressive
No.30843
>>30811
The biggest mistake animators and directors make when moving to 3D is throwing out everything they learned while working in 2D.
No.30850
>>30843
>The biggest mistake animators and directors make when moving to 3D is throwing out everything they learned while working in 2D.
This.
No.30851
>>30843
What surprises me is how long it's taking for 3D to get fixed in the anime industry.
3D in movies was god awful at first both for technical limitations and because no one knew how to use it, but it improved over time considerably.
But all anime has to show for is Houseki no Kuni, and a handful of more controversial titles
No.33672
No.33681
>>33672
Going through the new Cutie Honey right now and it's painful to see how little attention they pay to scene composition in their animation.
No.33683
>>30811
I find SFV models absolutely boner-inducing though
I mean, they could be cuter, but damn those T&A
No.33684
>>14374
requesting this video without the screenwobble camera trick
No.33685
No.33691
>>33685
Kabaneri is absolutely beautiful. If only it wasn't boring, I could have liked it more
No.33735
>>33691
It had unique techniques.
No.37869
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
This would have made more in-universe sense than a sofa… Guess the fight chereographer preferred pre-kikoken Chun Li.
No.37902
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
A lot of the problem with digital and CGI animation is there isn't the talent around to use it. While most of the people using cell animation trained to be classical artists and knew their shit modern artists simply don't. They can trace over stuff in photoshop too easily (and this is what 90% of art is these days, in any serious industry) and they're growing up drawing anime as a main style.
Anime as a style is very simple and completely abstract. You don't learn good anatomy by making the eyes half the face and the nose a single dot. It completely fucks any sort of traditional drawing techniques.
This also applies to the story tellers and directors. They grew up on anime and video games (we're talking 40 years of this shit by now minimum), they don't have unique interesting experiences they have other people's unique experiences filtered through their work. It's the reason why almost all indie games are terrible, they're not telling a new interesting story they're looping someone else's story in a slightly warped way.
Digital worlds create very little originality and that's what the format really needs to shine. At this point most studios likely have a huge server full of pre-posed animu archtypes where instead of drawing a unique frame then moving it yourself you just pull up Male5 pose b and then fill in the blanks until it reaches pose f. If you're a top guy you might be able to dictate an action scene and have some freedom there but the lower guys are 100% using mannequins. This means they can't do as interesting stuff because the pose is already fixed, there's no way to make the shoulders a bit bigger or the arms a bit shorter depending on what would look the best. It simply is so it is.
I know this because I looked into Western concept images. I absolutely loved concept art until I saw this revelation. Every major company now just uses stock images. Either they take a stock image and redraw over it or they pay 5 bucks for a 3D model from an archive, pose it in blender and then draw over that to get the lighting perfect. Video attached is 1 hour of a top tier concept artist tearing the entire industry apart. It will explain why nothing is good any more and you will understand why it's not getting any better.
No.37909
>>37902
That video is kinda pretentious and too many new concept artist don't draw from imagination.
No.37916
>>37909
He's an asshole working in the concept industry for modern shit, of course it's pretentious.
No.37919
>>37916
Suggest you anons watch some of the Pixiv box stuff since the japs doing art in those streams/videos are 1000% more talented then these western hacks.
No.37991
>>37869
It looks like they forgot to color the Kikoken when she throws it, and then didn't even bother to draw it when it hits Vega.
No.38048
>>37919
Autists drawing commission art at home is a different situation entirely. It's easy to spend the time and effort needed to make it something special but that's not realistic for producing something animated or making a profit you can live off of.
No.38054
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>37991
That's a rough draft
Final animation was a thrown sofa (at the 4min mark)
No.38077
>>7782
Cel animation has a superior look in my opinion. It has a warmth, tecture, and charm that digital cannot seem to replicate well. We lost those nice qualities when digital started being predominantly used. Modern digital anine has this flat, mass-produced feel. It's because we're basically just looking at flood-filled line art as opposed to hand-painted frames. Sadly, cel is just too time-consuming and exoensive so it's never going to come back as a mainstream production method.
No.38079
>>38077
What is your comparison? A super detailed 80s OVA with tons of pencil line art or something from a movie of the 90s that had effects out the ass? Most TV anime has been cells on a static background barely moving for the most part. I think your view is skewed by higher effort works that crown the best of an age in the best possible circumstances to mentally cherry pick what makes anime good. Even your best will have flaws which you will ignore and anything less than par will be forgotten. It's a nature of perception.
No.38103
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>38077
It can be done but it takes an autist to do it and the budget becomes so high it lowers the ability to use the animation for anything active.
G Reco did it but is other wise unwatchable for various reasons.
No.38107
What angers me the worst is when CG intentionally cripples it's FPS rate.
Why do this?! The one good thing it has over cell animation is that it can go crazy with FPS. Then people would say "CG is taking some time to catch up with traditional animation in artstyle, but at least it's smooth"
Instead, we have the worst of both worlds
No.43753
Animation in this movie is so fluid and funky and I love it!
No.43801
>>29098
Jesus this was great.
No.43810
Bahi JD amazes me due to his use of flash.
No.43878
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
These videos go into depth of how anime production/animation works.
No.44100
Since this thread also has talked about the issues of animation in Japan a bit, what is everyone's thoughts on studios like Trigger setting up Patreon?
No.44142
Shit like this breaks my heart since the moment it went on vector the quality dropped like a sack of bricks.
No.44202
>>26590
Cel painting was insane.
No.44222
>>44100
From what I remember reading it goes against Japanese culture and having all that money upfront does put more pressure on management to budget well but if it means cutting out the middle man (scumbag marketing execs) and more series that the fans want then I'm all for it.
>>44142
The earliest draft has the best depiction of motion in my opinion (probably because of the more exaggerated upper body movement) but the final cut could have been saved if they toned down the speed of the backdrop moving by. It looks awful because of the character in focus moving at an unreasonable speed in comparison to the ground which makes the whole scene jarring and unpleasant to look at.
No.44225
>>44222
> It looks awful because of the character in focus moving at an unreasonable speed in comparison to the ground which makes the whole scene jarring and unpleasant to look at.
The first draft looked like it had actual animation principals while the other looked like cheap flash, I don't mind a stylised look like >>43755 but has to still have some principals of animation or discipline.
No.44229
>>44225
If the line of motion was your only concern then you could somewhat excuse its poorness with the non contouring clothes the character is wearing. The drawn motion in the vectored animation isn't too radically different from the first draft either.
It's the flame effects that completely ruin the scene for me. If you look closely, the drawn flames in the lower right ruin the composition by sliding along the ground in the shot.
No.44233
>>44229
>the drawn flames in the lower right ruin the composition by sliding along the ground in the shot.
You're spot on there.
No.44276
Vimeo embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Thoughts on Flash in anime?
No.44295
>>44288
That was pretty cute.
No.44823
Penguin Highway by Studio Colorido is being done fully digital and for those who don't know about Studio Colorido look here >>8075
Colorido always impresses me with how fluid their animation is.
No.45079
Any of you think something will be lost once more and more Japanese animators go full on digital?
No.45097
>>45079
That would depend on the future audience and if good taste is lost on them.
No.45226
>>45097
I used to be really anti digital animation but after seeing people like Bahi JD and Studio Colorido it made me realise that if you know what you're doing one can make highly fluid animations purely digital.
No.45527
>>45226
The digital animation problem is more a problem with the animators than the tools.
No.45531
>>45527
That old saying of it's who uses the tools has never been more true.
No.45581
>>45531
Even so, I still prefer the look of cel animation if the studio is given enough time and money to do their magic.
No.45749
>>45581
Some of the skill of the cel paintings was amazing.
No.46788
>>7782
Cel had a charm and took skill, but seeing the webgen guys like Bahi or Ryo made me understand that digital animators have a place.
No.46888
Predating the use of cels in anime, the two main methods to create animation were to either draw the whole frame at once or to draw the background and then use paper cutouts instead of cels. This is an example of the latter. The movie was reconstructed from 2 incomplete sources, easy to recognize because one was tinted yellow while the other was green.
No.46892
>>46888
This is really interesting.
No.46895
Cel animation was first pioneered in the US and it wasn't until the 1930s that it would become widespread in anime.
No.46903
>>46895
Shit you gave me a redpill.
No.46934
I remember the old animation threads on /ic/ about animation those were really good threads, it's a shame things went to hell.
No.46936
>>46888
>first coin disappears
the nip tax system was pretty great back then.
No.47167
>>46936
It's an interesting concept.
No.47223
>>46888
That's as bad as tweening should have gotten.
No.47474
>>47228
I think some of the comments there are right when they say it's a lazy analysis of the film, though you have to appreciate the level of spatial awareness these old animators used to have and the differentiating they do between soft/hard lighting in a drawn format which is something you lose with the lack of layers in shading found in modern animations.
One of my favorite things in the Area 88 OVA are the detailed cockpit shots. Little details like the light being reflected off the canopy shifting when Boris rolls off to one side really make the whole thing that more enjoyable.
No.47475
>>47474
Man that detail is amazing.
No.47548
I think overall it has been terrible.
There are examples where it isn't bad, but it's mostly an inferior alternative and only done to save time, which tends to be a shitty reason to do anything.
No.47891
>>47548
>inferior alternative and only done to save time
If Japan's economy awakens from it's 30 year coma, is there a chance traditional animation can return? I don't even care if it's only pretentious art snobs pumping out the first wave, just as long as something gets the ball rolling.
No.47893
>>47891
What exactly do you mean by traditional animation?
>Hand drawn on paper but animated on the PC then coloured using digital ink and paint
>Cel animation
>Full on frame by frame animation done on the PC
2D animation in japan has changed since the 90s, Princess mononokee and Akira pretty were much a reason why so many went digital.
No.47898
>>47893
What happened between 2005 and now to make it seem to cease completely though? It seems like everything is digital now, and it's really janky.
No.47899
>>47893
Cel all the way, digital coloring looks very flat unless the animator is careful. It's the more expensive method because of the volume of employees on payroll, but the end result looks better for it.
>>47898
Stagnating economy and not enough genuine professionals.
No.47907
>>47899
The issue with cel is the sheer amount of time it takes, Princess Mononokee was such a insane task that 15% was done in toonz or open toonz as it's know today as a test to see if it was more efficient, all the Studio Ghibli movies after starting with Spirited Away were hand drawn then digitally coloured and inked in open toonz. I believe it's who is using the tools then the tools themselves mostly.
No.47943
>>8717
Xrd looks like shit, gettin real sick of sycophants propping up this pile of shit as aesthetic.
No.47970
Was Garo: Vanishing Line made digitally or the old fashioned way? If it was digital, this should be the standard.
No.48129
>>47970
Pretty certain digitally colored with hand-drawn frames like most other modern Anime. It's more so the director's passion for action scenes and flair that makes it stand out.
No.48159
>>48129
A director can make or break any anime.
No.48238
>>47970
Digitally for sure. Especially because it's so heavy on CGI and CAMERA WOBBLES
No.48349
>>47970
>motion blur
>camera shit
This is trash.
No.48927
No.49360
>>48159
True, but lack of animating talent, budget or time can ruin any production just as badly. Vanishing Line had enough talent to do panoramic action sequences well but the continuity in close ups and the scenes where they try to mix close ups with long shots was hard to follow so they still have a lot they can improve on.
Can't deny it was fun to watch just on its flair alone.
No.49661
>>46788
Bahi JD is a fantastic animator and his story is pretty awe inspiring, but when he talks about how much he makes…. that's when he starts being quiet.
No.49663
>>49360
The show still looks inorganic despite the talent and after seeing >>8229 which is to my surprise using Clip studio paint to animate looks more organic.
No.49693
>>49661
His story is that he pretty much shitposted on a forum, while going through school and did some pretty good gifs that eventually got him a gig in Kids on the slope.
No.49861
I love these pencil test, they just are full of life.
No.50149
>>49663
If by "organic animation" you mean the depiction of subtlety in motion then I would agree with you. >>8229 had an animator from Studio Ghibli working on it if I remember correctly and Ghibli is an industry leader in that sort of thing.
However, if you're talking about the depiction of motion in terms of the line of motion, etc. then I'd say it's comparing apples to oranges. Vanishing Line is a series focused on bombastic movements with wide and dramatic motions, which I found was done fairly well despite being a sweatshop animation. The short is focused on detailed, small and cutesy movement and is done well without the backing of a mainstream publisher. One shouldn't really be prioritized over the other and there isn't any guarantee masters of either would be able to animate the other just as well but if you were to run into animators that can combine good depiction of the subtlety in motions as well as good styling of more dramatic movement, you get something fantastic like in >>49861
No.50234
>>50149
This was a 10/10 post.
No.62904
>>61096
>>61095
Akria was a fantastic film.
No.62915
>>50149
Why the fuck is nobody ejecting?
Why didn't Jess level the plane, lower altitude and autopilot?
No.73327
>>73317
Mixing traditional painted backgrounds and digital animation. That's pretty good actually. I should rewatch Kill la Kill some time.
No.73330
>>73327
Quite a few shows do this and Little witch did this also.
No.73352
>>7805
What do you mean by that, that digital anime is shit normalfags like or that thinking digital anime is shit is normalfaggish?
No.73393
>>73352
Most anime is being digitally animated with shit like tv paint.
No.73411
Kill La Kill is probably one of the worst pieces of garbage I laughed off (((netflix))). LOL
No.73429
Why do people act like Kill La Kill is the worst anime? It's not something I'd say is 10/10 but it's way better then a lot of the slide show shit to come out lately.
No.73433
>>73429
Because it tries to be the next Gurren Lagann, but couldn't even hold a candle to it.
No.75280
>>73433
It's not Gurren Lagann but it's still pretty high energy.
No.79957
>>9500
where is this bought
No.83449
>>73429
>Why do people act like Kill La Kill is the worst anime?
Don't trust hipster kids, anon: when you see a bunch of weird contrarians agreeing with each other, you know it's time to ignore them. They're just normalfags at the very bottom, crafting a consensus to float back up.
Kill la Kill was a breath of fresh air in a market oversaturated with moeshit. It enraged feminists due to the costumes, even if afterwards Tumblr pushed on the doublethink to pretend they always liked it. Too bad that the studio is complete shit at finishing stories coherently.
>Gurren Lagann
Literally the first memeshow for 4cucks. ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWA SO LULZ.
No.83454
>>7803
Except digital looks like shit.
No.83487
No.83550
>>83449
It's funny how you go on about hipsters then shit on Gurren Lagann because it's popular with cuckchan. I'll admit I have I'd have a hard time going back to it today becaue of how big of a meme it's become because I can't help but be a bit of a hipster faggot towards any popular anime myself. But at least I can acknowledge that it's a good show. Even if it isn't the best
No.83570
2 reasons I fucking hate CG
1 Takes less effort than autistically animating 2d anything whether it's pen and paper or flash
2 I'M FUCKING TIRED OF CG TRYING TO IMITATE 2D!
The second one gets me peeved the most though, I fucking hate it! The damn thing is just TOO FUCKING STIFF and perfect it becomes jarringly noticeable. It's even further irritating when on purpose they try to match the framerate of some 2d object in a scene to a 3d one! Honestly either go full CG or fucking ditch the thing already, I fucking hate it when CG tries to imitate 2d. The only instances I ever found it tolerable is unironically in Guilty Gear Xrd and the new DBZ fighters. But that's because the people working on these went out of their way to make the damn models be so highly polygonal the imperfections almost have the stretch and smear effects, plus imperfections 2d has.
No.83576
>>83570
The videos on how they did those two games are something I highly recommend to anons here.
No.83735
>>83550
The point wasn't that Gurren Lagann was popular on 4ch, but that it was a forced meme. For american kids who only knew anime from DBZ and Naruto.
No.90157
>>83454
When done right it's good.
No.90173
3D animation isn't even anime. Technique makes the art, and an artist (in the classic sense of artisan) is someone with a great knowledge of the knacks and limits of the tool. At most, you can say that 3D animation 'mimics' the old art: inevitably feeling a bit off, since the role is forced and even prevents 3D from fully expressing itself.
You can't call it a fresco, if you're using spray paint cans.
No.93606
>>7889
>>93579
>>73326
>>45473
>>43782
Anyone else find themselves preferring the look of unfinished sketches over full renders? Not even considering the finalized version's frame rate or making this about digital vs cel.
No.93617
>>93606
I like the rough stuff too as it's organic.
No.98031
Some crazy nip did animation in an ipad pro.