/animu/ - Anime & Otaku Culture★

>>77110 (OP)

I like comfy vanilla relationships that are already established. Everyday monotony is exhilarating for me.

>>77110 (OP)

>so their shit taste virtually dominates the entire scene

Can you be more specific? How does it ruin the scene? What exactly make their taste shit?

>>77110 (OP)

Women seem to prefer soap-opera drama shit. NTR-bait stuff.

Personally, I just want a nice comfy story about a happy couple being lovy-dovy. Maybe taking on challenges outside their relationship together, like sick family members or losing a job.

Nothing makes me stop reading a story quicker than stupid relationship drama that inevitably becomes a hint of possible NTR.

>>77132

Why do women love relationship drama and NTR so much?

>>77133

I would guess it's to do with Hypergamy. The idea of having multiple men lusting after one woman is the ideal situation for a woman as it means she can choose which ever partner she wants.

>>77110 (OP)

>No love for .png, .gif, or .webm girls

What a fag

>>77133

Evil by nature.

>>77110 (OP)

>What defines those two different ideals? Can you name any series which stand out as examples of either?

Man slays dragon, acquires princess (Clannad, solving every girl's dragon).

Girl tames beast (Inuyasha and 'Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun').

Though, between ecchi harem and shoujo anime, it seems like 'not manly man gets tangled up with a dozen sex goddesses' vs 'not popular highschool tomboy gets tangled up with misunderstood alpha boyband members'

>What do you like to see in a romance story?

A lesson in fantasy vs reality, the nuanced and charming depiction of delirious infatuation set against (depending on the mc personality) the terrifying prospect of rejection and loss, and the acknowledged differences between the sexes.

>What is [are] your favorite romance[s]?

Toradora and Nana to Kaoru come to mind.

Otherwise enjoyable but mostly comical were Nozaki, Takagi, 'Tsuredure Children' 4koma and Kaguya-sama.

There's more romance oriented ones I liked but, being on-going manga, I forget them soon as I catch up with release schedule.

I'd mention 'Watashi no Fushidara' because it does a top job at depicting said delirium, but it's not so much romance as it is psychological/smut/tragedy.

sorry for longposting

>>77133

Drama is to women as action is to men.

>>77166

>but isnt that shit just harem shenanigans?

(Most) women don't want to have multiple men at once the way guys do. Their ideal is to have sex with the hottest man they can get, and then get taken care of by the most powerful/wealthiest/most secure man they can get. If that means having to have sex with the second man occasionally, so be it, but they'd really rather not. If she's lucky, they're the same person.

Female romance works feature multiple male love interests because this flatters women's egos and it satisfies their need to pick the "best". You can see this when the love interests who the female protagonist won't pick are suddenly revealed to have been total losers all along towards the end of the story.

Tl;dr: Alpha fucks, Beta bucks.

>>77179

are you talking about 3DPD or japanese comics for woman?

>>77184

Japanese comics for women are written for Japanese 3DPD, so yes.

>>77188

got any examples?

>>77196

>karekano

>She indulges her own self-image by helping the poor down on his luck man become the perfect 10 he is meant to be

but the two MCs are competing against each other in school and later down the story they fix their own problems and male MC manage to be better than his shitty parents, and by that i mean not acting like his mother.

>She is able to use her advantageous position to occupy the sole attention of a man who would usually have a lot of other female options and leverage him into committing to her.

I think there wasnt any other females aiming for the male lead, he was popular, I think there wasnt any other competing females, both MCs got together because of the whole rivalry thing and male lead and female lead had a hot steaming passionate sex scene, which lead to female MC getting pregnant and male MC freaking out because he was doing the same mistakes as his father

Hell, I remember the female lead sole purpose on life was to be no.1 at school, but later down the road she realize, she didnt know what else to do with her life after accomplishing that, I dont remember her scheming to get the male lead at all.

Pretty good shit, watch the show for the songs and later read the whole comic.

The only bad thing I remember was that the artists doesnt know how bullets/guns work.

>>77196

I often see the opposite for the female lead in shojo as well i.e "average / "unattractive" because of some superficial or misunderstanding but once a special man comes along uncovers that she's actually a 10/10 all along and a bunch of special guys are now lined up for her pussy.

>>77218

Can you tell (preferably show) us more about said steamy scene?

>>77224

I think he's talking kare kano.

>>77179

It's the exact same stuff as male harem stuff though where you want the MC to end up with best girl. And in shoujo rmance you'll find a lot of times that the girl doesn't end up with the richest or most powerful guy. A lot of times that guy is the one who seems good but then ends up being the creepy loser.

Also you make it sound like it's so nefarious to be wanted, the whole thing with multiple suitors is that the female lead can feel wanted and appreciated. She is who she is in the story, usually she isn't the most popular slut she's just a plain girl who has some redeeming quality that makes it so multiple guys fight over her and for women having guys fight or compete for you is extremely validating because it makes the girl feel wanted and like she's not hopeless.

In any case all that stuff is just a way of giving eye candy to the reader, whoever the MC ends up with in the end is the mangaka's favorite usually and they don't always show the other guys to be losers I've read lots of shoujo romance where the other guys end up with the MC's friends and everyone loves happily ever after.

t.anon who's read too much shoujo in the past

>>77223

This is the most common thing I've seen too.

sage for double post

Shit taste is omnipresent and ever prevalent and ruins everything, it has nothing to do with gender.

Guys seem to like pathetic doormat losers who don't do anything in terms of driving the plot yet inexplicably attain a harem of girls, only to reject everyone but the worst girl, except possibly if the girl in the cover isn't the worst one because she's the one who's going to win 99% of the time. This trash is completely dominating anime/manga romance and it's all shit.

Take for example Kimi no Iru Machi, True Tears, or Just Because. Somewhere along the line MC starts dating best girl, only to dump her because the girl who was established first must win instead. It's stupid shit and anyone who agrees with it has terminal shit taste, which must be a majority of people since it always happens.

I can probably count the amount of good romance stories with one hand. Top tier romance is something where the main character(s) have some kind of unusual traits that instigate unusual shenanigans, and they go about their days and slowly build a relationship that isn't based on drama. My favorite romance will always be Chuunibyou for this reason, the only downfall of it is that the relationship doesn't progress very far and was only half assedly wrapped up with the movie. Toradora is the next contender, but it has elements of haremshit in it. Ookami Shounen is my favorite manga-only romance even though it has 2 love interests, mainly because of how it's brought up and how it turns out in the end.

>>77239

Mostly great post.

>toradora

Nope.

>>77242

I have complicated feelings about Toradora. What makes it good is that the main characters start out from a very bad relationship, but it gradually progresses over time as they help the other attain their goal, and their feelings in terms of romantic interest change aswell. To me that's probably the most important part of a romance story, the growth and development of the relationship and the more it changes the better, and Toradora has it good.

What makes it bad is almost everything else. Violent boob complex tsundere midget is a shitty character archetype, mc is mostly okay but sometimes too much of a fag, there's too many characters who like MC, 2 characters having mutual feelings for one another but not ending up together is retarded (MC & Minori) and the reason is retarded aswell, Taiga is already a bitchy character so Ami feels like a bad fit for the story, characters admitting/realizing their feelings isn't all that great and just stretches into stupid drama where nobody can decide what the fuck they want because someone else might be hurt, and in general they act in stupid ways (such as expecting other people to understand things that you won't tell them about, and getting asshurt when you don't get it).

>>77266

I can agree with the growth part but taiga is complete shit and most of the show has a harem feel to it which makes it automatically shit.

>>77236

>>77236

>It's the exact same stuff as male harem stuff though where you want the MC to end up with best girl.

Harems don't fill the same role for men that shoujo does for girls, but men have a pretty universal preference order:

1. The protagonist has a harem ending with all of the girls.

2. The protagonist picks best girl and has a happy ending with her.

3. The protagonist picks some other girl and has a happy ending.

4-9,999. …

10,000. The protagonist doesn't pick any girl and winds up alone.

Men aren't as picky as women are. While best girl is preferable to the others, it's more important that the protagonist doesn't blow his chance to "live the fantasy" - and most important that the protagonist doesn't completely fuck things up.

>And in shoujo rmance you'll find a lot of times that the girl doesn't end up with the richest or most powerful guy. A lot of times that guy is the one who seems good but then ends up being the creepy loser.

But the protagonist never winds up with both the hottest guy and in poverty, does she? Moral sensibility does place some limits: A story written for girls isn't going to have the main heroine become a whore to put bread on the table.

>Also you make it sound like it's so nefarious to be wanted, the whole thing with multiple suitors is that the female lead can feel wanted and appreciated. She is who she is in the story, usually she isn't the most popular slut she's just a plain girl who has some redeeming quality that makes it so multiple guys fight over her and for women having guys fight or compete for you is extremely validating because it makes the girl feel wanted and like she's not hopeless.

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just pointing out why it happens.

>In any case all that stuff is just a way of giving eye candy to the reader, whoever the MC ends up with in the end is the mangaka's favorite usually and they don't always show the other guys to be losers I've read lots of shoujo romance where the other guys end up with the MC's friends and everyone loves happily ever after.

Which just goes to show that the heroine is the "alpha female" in her group of friends, getting the best man while everybody else gets the leftovers.

>>77268

>but taiga is complete shit

Nah, she was the best girl. Also, a real pleb filter protag.

>>77288

Oh hi there, plebshit. Let me guess your favorite girl is Ami.

>>77239

>True Tears

Except Noe wasn't the best girl, and humoring the autist doesn't count as dating.

>>77291

>Noe wasn't the best girl

Found the contrarian faggot.

>>77285

>Harems don't fill the same role for men that shoujo does for girls, but men have a pretty universal preference order:

>1. The protagonist has a harem ending with all of the girls.

Harem endings are pretty uncommon in harem series. I'm not saying they never happen but they are still relatively rare.

>Men aren't as picky as women are. While best girl is preferable to the others, it's more important that the protagonist doesn't blow his chance to "live the fantasy" - and most important that the protagonist doesn't completely fuck things up.

What's that supposed to mean? Unless you are writing drama, of course the MC of either genre doesn't end up sad and lonely.

>But the protagonist never winds up with both the hottest guy and in poverty, does she? Moral sensibility does place some limits: A story written for girls isn't going to have the main heroine become a whore to put bread on the table.

Again, neither does the MC of a story written for guys end up miserable unless it's a drama.

>Which just goes to show that the heroine is the "alpha female" in her group of friends, getting the best man while everybody else gets the leftovers.

Imagine a manga in which a male MC goes for best girl but then his friend get's her, MC just goes "s-sure" and takes some other girl instead. I don't think many readers would be into that, outside of a specific fetish.

>romance anime

You all better be girls

>>77298

We all are. So are you. You're just now realizing it.

>>77299

>/animu/

>no boys allowed

Personally I think romance should always just be a theme and not a genre. The romance “genre” only appeals to ladies approaching or beyond the wall.

Also if it’s too gay I won’t watch. It can still have gay characters but they can’t be successful with their gayness. So Kuroko from Scientific Railgun is an example of acceptable portrayal of homosexuality in anime.

Lastly, I imagine watching too much idealized, fictionalized romance can’t be healthy for you.

>>77304

Female homosexuality (if the girls are young or cute) is ALWAYS fine. It was always so with people with taste.

>>77305

Nah that’s gay and gross

>>77110 (OP)

>What defines those two different ideals?

Dunno, but it's an interesting question. I'd guess for girls it's getting the best guy of all the best guys, and for guys it's getting a unicorn that loves them for who they are. But that's a just a quick guess.

>Can you name any series which stand out as examples of either?

For the girls ideal: Every other romance story, the ones with a love triangle consisting of two boys and one girl.

For the boys: The other half, where some hot girl falls in love with some dense schmuck without any effort on his part and pursues him ceaselessly.

>>What do you like to see in a romance story?

Suffering. Unrequited love, forbidden love, whatever it takes. The only good love story is an unhappy one.

>>What is your favorite romance?

Can't pick one, here's two:

The Heaven's Feel route of Fate/Stay Night is one of my favourite love stories because it's about Shirou doing exactly the wrong thing and risking the lives of thousands to save the girl, inverting the greater good. I have no idea why I like it, or why it doesn't actually bother me enough to completely ruin it for me, because any other time I'd be all about the Mind of Steel shit. Maybe because Shirou was honest with himself about what he'd done and never pretended that love justified his choices.

The other was a fucking MLP fanfic wherein Twilight Sparkle spends most of the story being very unhappily in love with Rainbow Dash, and then spends the last bit of it devising a love spell, casting it, and then getting together with Rainbow at the end.

>>77297

I realize that your cognition is in the shitter because you're overdosing on estrogen, but here goes:

>Harem endings are pretty uncommon in harem series. I'm not saying they never happen but they are still relatively rare.

They're increasingly common in modern works, and are almost universally the preferred ending in works aimed at men. Conversely, it's almost never the preferred ending in shoujo works, to the point were works featuring it are vanishingly rare

>What's that supposed to mean? Unless you are writing drama, of course the MC of either genre doesn't end up sad and lonely.

>Again, neither does the MC of a story written for guys end up miserable unless it's a drama.

It's hardly unusual for a story aimed at men to feature multiple eligible female love interests and still end without the protagonist winding up with anybody. Conversely, that type of ending is almost unheard of in shoujo,

>Imagine a manga in which a male MC goes for best girl but then his friend get's her, MC just goes "s-sure" and takes some other girl instead. I don't think many readers would be into that, outside of a specific fetish

You're missing the point. Who the leftovers wind up with in shoujo is important because girls want to know that the self-insert wound up with the "best" man of all the self-insert's friends. Who the leftovers wind up with in shounen or seinen isn't nearly as important because men don't compete with each other for status in the same way.

>>77224

>Can you tell (preferably show) us more about said steamy scene?

Read kare kano, its worth it.

>>77236

>I've read lots of shoujo romance where the other guys end up with the MC's friends and everyone loves happily ever after.

Got any recommendations? I need my comic with multiple couples dose.

>>77239

>only to dump her because the girl who was established first must win instead

You are wrong! :^)

>Ookami Shounen

adding that shit on the never ending list of comics.

>>77266

>where nobody can decide what the fuck they want because someone else might be hurt

I hate it when one girl cant confess to the MC, because reasons and just at the end of the damn comic she confesses just to be shot down by him, because main girl won him since the start, that shit should be illegal.

>>77324

>>77311

>>77325

yuri is shit

>>77324

Truth.

>>77331

Explain yourself.

>>77110 (OP)

Romance animes are all fuckin trash. Making romance the basis of your story is stupid.

>>77351

>Romance animes are all fuckin trash.

Generally my experience as well. Except for Koi Kaze.

>>77133

I thought about this a bit more and came up with the theory that NTR is the equivalent of the hero losing his best friend to the monster or in battle against a hated foe. In terms of scale of drama to different sexes. Men are creatures of action who value and are valued by how useful they are. This means they find shit like going on adventures and fighting incredible beasts to be more engaging compared to females who are biologically driven to be more aware of social consequences.

A women's although inherent through the fact she can give birth she must also manage her interpersonal relationships in her tribe well and one of the greatest threats she feels is ostracization from the social group. By doing so she would lose the benefits of having a group of other females that will potentially protect her from unwanted mates, and potentially help her should something unfortunate befall her or her family. So shit like NTR, inter personal relationship conflicts are big events that happen within the context of these social interactions comparative to the big events that happen in adventure stories. So the interest comes from women have an biological desire to hone their social skills to avoid such tragedy so it's interesting in the same way that when the hero is down and beaten we wish to see how he recovers not because he is beaten.

TLDR; Men are biologically driven to action, women are biologically driven for social interactions.

Though if they actually LIKE the NTR then I don't fucking know. But then again people who like NTR are fucked in the head.

>>77352

>Except for Koi Kaze

Good taste anon

>>77602

I assume you are aware of Nagatoro, which is essentially both of those.

>>77613

pic not related?

>>77355

>with the theory that NTR is the equivalent of the hero losing his best friend to the monster

if the friend of the hero, unfriends him and friends the monster, then he wasnt really his friend after all.

>>77614

it was an example for a body

>>77614

>if the friend of the hero, unfriends him and friends the monster, then he wasnt really his friend after all.

I think he meant that by hero's friend dying from received wounds and not by monstergirl raping him until he finally submitted.

>>77618

>and not by monstergirl raping him until he finally submitted.

>implying it wasnt part of the plan to get laid

>>77690

Not everyone has fetish for receiving daily dose.